Year of the Priest Vespers

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brotherhrolf

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I just finished watching the Holy Father at a Vesper Service this Saturday morning on EWTN.

Vespers and Benediction…the Holy Father presiding. Forty-five years ago we sang Adoro Te Devote, Salve Regina, Ave Verum Corpus etc.

Forty-five years ago in any Catholic suburban parish across the United Staes we would have been able to pariticipate because Vespers and Benediction would have been in Latin…

Nope, we didn’t know what that there Latin meant. 😃 Anymore than me, tears pouring down my cheeks, knew what that there Latin meant this morning. Bro was obviously halucinating in his responses to the Latin this morning. We didn’t know what the Latin meant all those years ago. We certainly can’t respond to the Latin we knew as kids even when that Latin is broadcast live on a Saturday morning.

We did know what the Latin meant. I watched the Holy Father this morning on EWTN. Benediction, boys and girls, Benediction. In Latin. Could my sons have participated? No. Could our protestant converts have participated? No. The ONLY thing I did not understand was the Divine Praises which were in Italian (which would have been recited in English forty-five years ago anyway). I read and speak Spanish and I could understand what they meant in Italian.

Forty five years ago we were Catholic. Forty five years ago across the world we responded in one voice.

I could attend and respond to todays Vesper Service. My sons could not. Latin is a unifying force in HMC.
 
I whole heatedly concur with your assessment. I am 23 and have been attending the EF for the last 5 years or so depending on my military obligation. I am in Baghdad now, but I agree with the idea of Latin as the key to the universality of Western Catholicism.

What we will witness in the US at least is competing nationalisms between English and Spanish speakers. Catholics have become self-segregating based on language and I for one do not observe this is my EF Mass. At the EF there are black, hispanic, filipino, French, anglo- American, Indians, all praying the same direction in the same language. Its beautiful.

Is there a video of the Holy Fathers vespers?
 
I don’t think so. Maybe EWTN does another rebroadcast later. But I would like to direct your attention to this video.

media.journalstar.com/comments/?mid=M49dfaba02dd16

This came from a young friend of mine on CAF who has just completed his freshman year at the above referenced FSSP seminary.

OOOOH, there is that Gregorian Chant thing which is so hard… Forty-five years ago you could go anywhere on the face of the Earth and participate at Mass.

How many American Catholics watched and could participate in the Vesper service today?

Gregorian Chant. So tough. So hard. The Holy Father presides over a Vesper service where GASP! Adoro te devote, Salve Regina, Ave verum corpus are chanted.

Gregorian Chant has pride of place. Forty-five years ago any Catholic could participate at Vespers (Novena, Benediction). How many of us remember Humbly We Adore Thee as the main Communion Hymn - Adoro te devote). Naw, we couldn’t sing it in Latin.

My sons (27 and 24) can’t sing it in Latin even though both were brought up in a respectful NO cathedral parish. DW and I can. But no, we can’t participate in a vesper service with HMC, What have we lost, folks, what have we lost?
 
Forty-five years ago in any Catholic suburban parish across the United Staes we would have been able to pariticipate because Vespers and Benediction would have been in Latin
**I really doubt that there would have been Vespers in ANY US parish, suburban or not, 45 years ago.

The Divine Office had pretty much dropped out of parish life.**
 
I do not, in the town I live in, even have the option of attending Mass in the EF. But just reading these posts brings a lump to my throat because I do remember the solemnity and the dignity…even the hush of walking into a Catholic Church 45 years ago. I cry over what we have lost, but rejoice that there are still those who remember as I do.

The current tower of Babel caused by the politically correct multiculturism of the day is very unjust; for instance, we have a fairly large contingent of Vietnamese in our parish. Some of the “grandmas” speak no English but many are forced to endure the bi-lingual hymns. Wonder which is hardest for them - the English or the Spanish?
 
The current tower of Babel caused by the politically correct multiculturism of the day is very unjust;
**So forcing a language that nobody is likely to speak is intrinsically MORE just?

I have no problem with pastoral accomodation being made for different language groups. Why do you?**
 
bpbasilphx said:
Forty-five years ago in any Catholic suburban parish across the United Staes we would have been able to pariticipate because Vespers and Benediction would have been in Latin
I really doubt that there would have been Vespers in ANY US parish, suburban or not, 45 years ago.

The Divine Office had pretty much dropped out of parish life.
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Well, Bishop, I had to have learned it somewhere. Didn’t just “pop out” from the brow of Zeus. I had certainly heard many of the Psalms in Latin; doxology; the Magnificat in Latin, and any number of Marian antiphons. Benediction? Every Tuesday evening and far, far, more times in my parish then, than in my cathedral parish today.

I really didn’t have a problem following what was going on (which was my primary point).

But I would call you, good sir, on the different language groups. Forty-five years ago in Vietnam, in which language was the Mass celebrated? When my Irish antecedents were unceremoniously dumped on the levees in New Orleans in 1847, French was still the primary language of the people; German was right up there; some Spanish; and some English. In 1847 there were two parishes in New Orleans. St. Louis Cathedral and St. Patrick. The Mass was in Latin at both. Filipinos came to New Orleans. Croats. Italians and Sicilians of all sorts. Mass was in Latin.

Bp. Basil - trust me on this. Our Anglican bretheren did a really spiffy job of translating the great sequences and many of the common chants from Latin into English. Sing My Tongue the Savior’s Glory on Holy Thursday instead of Pange Lingua Gloriosi is like taking a shower with a raincoat on.

BTW, we have two Vietnamese parishes here in Baton Rouge. There are many more in New Orleans and I don’t have a problem with “ethnic” parishes. The history of the Roman Catholic Church in the United States is filled with “ethnic” parishes. “Ethnicity” forty-five years ago had to do with decor, parish celebrations, etc. The Mass was celebrated in Latin.

I make no apologies. Every Catholic of whatever stripe should be able to chant Adoro Te Devote, Salve Regina, Ave Verum Corpus and a whole list of things that any Catholic forty-five years ago could have done.
 
I make no apologies. Every Catholic of whatever stripe should be able to chant Adoro Te Devote, Salve Regina, Ave Verum Corpus and a whole list of things that any Catholic forty-five years ago could have done.
**And you are apparently assuming that all Catholics are Latin rite.

Not so. Nor has it ever been.**
 
brotherhrolf said:
But I would call you, good sir, on the different language groups. Forty-five years ago in Vietnam, in which language was the Mass celebrated? When my Irish antecedents were unceremoniously dumped on the levees in New Orleans in 1847, French was still the primary language of the people; German was right up there; some Spanish; and some English. In 1847 there were two parishes in New Orleans. St. Louis Cathedral and St. Patrick. The Mass was in Latin at both. Filipinos came to New Orleans. Croats. Italians and Sicilians of all sorts. Mass was in Latin.

Bp. Basil - trust me on this. Our Anglican bretheren did a really spiffy job of translating the great sequences and many of the common chants from Latin into English. Sing My Tongue the Savior’s Glory on Holy Thursday instead of Pange Lingua Gloriosi is like taking a shower with a raincoat on.

BTW, we have two Vietnamese parishes here in Baton Rouge. There are many more in New Orleans and I don’t have a problem with “ethnic” parishes. The history of the Roman Catholic Church in the United States is filled with “ethnic” parishes. “Ethnicity” forty-five years ago had to do with decor, parish celebrations, etc. The Mass was celebrated in Latin.

I make no apologies. Every Catholic of whatever stripe should be able to chant Adoro Te Devote, Salve Regina, Ave Verum Corpus and a whole list of things that any Catholic forty-five years ago could have done.
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Thank you for posting this. Individual ethnicity should be preserved and honored. Ethnic parishes give glory to God. But the multiculturalism of which I spoke does neither. When we were in Switzerland recently, we attended a Mass in German. I missed the gospel that Sunday due to language constraints. Would it not be utter confusion to a Vietnamese to have to attend a Mass said in Spanish. Why elevate the Spanish over English, or French, or German? A melting pot we may very well be, but let us worship in unity with a Mass that is consistently said in Latin.
 
Would it not be utter confusion to a Vietnamese to have to attend a Mass said in Spanish. Why elevate the Spanish over English, or French, or German? A melting pot we may very well be, but let us worship in unity with a Mass that is consistently said in Latin.

++++++++

**Good. That way NOBODY understands it, and EVERYBODY will be left out.

In any case, the Church disagrees with you.**
 
bpbasilphx said:
I make no apologies. Every Catholic of whatever stripe should be able to chant Adoro Te Devote, Salve Regina, Ave Verum Corpus and a whole list of things that any Catholic forty-five years ago could have done.
And you are apparently assuming that all Catholics are Latin rite.

Not so. Nor has it ever been.
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Methinks that thou art quibbling good Bishop. FYI there were no Eastern Rite Catholics in New Orleans and my first experience with Eastern Catholicism was with a friend’s wedding when I was in grad school in 1978. I have learned more about Eastern Catholicism and Orthodoxy on these forums than I was ever exposed to in thirteen years of Roman Catholic education.
 
bpbasilphx said:
Would it not be utter confusion to a Vietnamese to have to attend a Mass said in Spanish. Why elevate the Spanish over English, or French, or German? A melting pot we may very well be, but let us worship in unity with a Mass that is consistently said in Latin.

++++++++

Good. That way NOBODY understands it, and EVERYBODY will be left out.

In any case, the Church disagrees with you.
Click to expand...
Does that include all those French tourists who come to Baton Rouge on the Mississippi River steam boats, stand throughout the Consecration and at other odd times during the Mass, and huddle together as if many of the cathedral parish are not of French ancestry or indeed speak French? Heck, Bishop, it is a multi-cultural extravaganza for them…we have people of colonial French ancestry who speak perfect “Parisian” French and then we have all of us Cajuns who speak an 18th century dialect of French. Wouldn’t have been a problem 45 years ago. Guess what? When Father J spies them, he often includes them by saying parts of the Mass in French. Those little old Vietnamese grandmothers smile - seems to me I remember the French in Vietnam. But, 45 years ago, it wouldn’t have been necessary.
 
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