Year-round meat abstinence on Fridays?

[mattkubes]

I just reread your quote of our pontiff, and no where does he say or imply that we should make the lenten observance harder or revert to more severe penances. He says we are to observe the penances of lent, but he certainly does NOT say we should return to prior levels. IF he does, it is not included in your quote.

Read it again. It wasnt wtitten by the current pope, it was said in 1741. It’s from Pope Benedict 14th and it’s a warning against growing lax in the practice of fasting and abstinence. It’s a direct warning against exactly what happened in the 1960s.

In 1741, when things were much more strict, he was saying “don’t water this down lest you become an enemy of the cross of Christ.” What happened? They went and watered it down. Hmmm…

 

[mattkubes]

Sorry, wrong thread.

 

[ProVobis]

Well if they have brought it back, then it hasn’t worked for them. Most of the people I know are Catholics, and none of them abstain from meat. Even the priests eat meat on Fridays. It’s Funny how I was always told by older Priests and apologists for the changes in the Church, that Friday abstinence was never “done away with” - but then why do they talk about “bringing it back”? Also, the Catholic Schools here serve meat on Fridays, so something isn’t right. Thats the problem with letting liberalism creep in. When people get used to less pennance etc, they never want to go back to a “harder” lifestyle. That is why it will be a lot harder to undo changes, than it was to implement them.

Can it be because Catholic schools now admit non-Catholics? But point taken. I remember when Catholics were first “allowed” to eat meat on Friday, they celebrated by eating all the meat their arteries could stand right after that. I’m sure that wasn’t what the Pope intended.

 

[kch86]

Can it be because Catholic schools now admit non-Catholics? But point taken. I remember when Catholics were first “allowed” to eat meat on Friday, they celebrated by eating all the meat their arteries could stand right after that. I’m sure that wasn’t what the Pope intended.

Fish is rich in omega-3 fatty acids, so it would actually be demonstrably and scientifically beneficial for many Catholics’ health if they followed Church teaching.

Still, the Church is free to bind and loose and establish or change practices that are to bind Catholics. The sin when one eats meat on Friday is not in the actual act of eating meat itself but in the disobedience to the authority of the Catholic Church. I agree with you that a complete disregard for this traditional practice was definitely not what the Pope had in mind.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Yeah, but that’s what happened. And, hey, was it surprising? I didn’t live in that time, but probably not.

 

[kch86]

Yeah, but that’s what happened. And, hey, was it surprising? I didn’t live in that time, but probably not.

I didn’t live in that time either. And as far as I know, no amount of disobedience was surprising back then.

I’m not a traditionalist (I don’t know traditional liturgy, not having had the opportunity to experience it) but I remember gently scolding a liberal priest once by saying, “Man, the 60s are so over. Get with the times!”

As the Church attempts to re-establish particular practices, then Catholics are bound to follow, and I hope that with time, more and more of them will.

 

[wcknight]

Read it again. It wasnt wtitten by the current pope, it was said in 1741. It’s from Pope Benedict 14th and it’s a warning against growing lax in the practice of fasting and abstinence. It’s a direct warning against exactly what happened in the 1960s.

In 1741, when things were much more strict, he was saying “don’t water this down lest you become an enemy of the cross of Christ.” What happened? They went and watered it down. Hmmm…

Sorry, wrong pope. I was only off by about 270 years.

Interesting, but I don’t draw the same meaning from the quote as you do. Yes, the pope says lenten observance is very important. But there is no mention implied or otherwise of future practices.

The Church can change practices when and if it pleases, the whole abstainence on Friday practice came about because of economic reasons, fishermen in the middle ages needed more income so, the Church instituted no meat of Fridays to help them out. I have no issue with that.

Fasting was always a part of tradition, but abstaining from meat was not. I have no problem with any requirement that the Church asks, and I have no problem with the Church altering its rules.

The problem I have is with folks, asking (or praying) for the Church to make things more difficult for others.

There are a lot of things that can make a soul more spiritually uplifting or to help us grow in our faith, I think they are much more meaningful when they are done voluntarilty. It would be great to say at least one decade of the rosary every day or to read a half hour of scriptures each week or what ever… Should the Chruch ever require us to do so, I would have no problem with that, BUT I would still think it is better if we do so on our own rather than have it required.

Maybe abstaining from meat on Fridays is the worng issue, since it used to be a requirement and was made substitute-able.

 

[floresco]

The problem I have is with folks, asking (or praying) for the Church to make things more difficult for others.

There are a lot of things that can make a soul more spiritually uplifting or to help us grow in our faith, I think they are much more meaningful when they are done voluntarilty. It would be great to say at least one decade of the rosary every day or to read a half hour of scriptures each week or what ever… Should the Chruch ever require us to do so, I would have no problem with that, BUT I would still think it is better if we do so on our own rather than have it required.

Do you have any experience with sports or physical fitness training? In general, people do not improve or excel unless they do what they find difficult. Doing easy exercises tends to lead to becoming weak. St. Paul used this analogy as comparison for the spiritual life. Challenge leads to growth.

Some people can push themselves to do all the exercises they need to, but many others do better with a coach telling them what they have to do and shouting encouragement. And the people with the coach get better and stronger, too, even if it isn’t “meaningful” through being voluntary.

The Church used to be more like a coach pushing us to do the things we needed for growth. I think that changing this has likely led to many becoming spiritual couch potatoes.