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MrZoom
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WELS is stridently anti-Catholic. They publicly proclaim the Pope to be the Antichrist on their official website.
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Hope1960
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WOW! Well, even though I’m leaving the CC, that wouldn’t fly with me.WELS is stridently anti-Catholic. They publicly proclaim the Pope to be the Antichrist on their official website.
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Hope1960
Guest
Well, here’s the thing. I believe God gave humanity scientists, paleoanthropologists, geologists etc., gifting them with the intelligence to learn these things and teach others. I plan to take three more classes at the LCMS Lutheran Church before I make a decision about converting there. One class a month, so I’ll be done in September when I guess I’ll decide. Unless I make that decision sooner.
Tonight’s class is Protestants vs Catholics, where they’re teaching the differences between the two.
Next class is about Genesis, and the third is for skeptics. That all should about cover all my questions.
There’s another church not too far from here, about 13 minutes but it’s a little bit out of the way. They’re a non denominational Christian Church that is very accepting of science and twice, by two different people, it’s been recommended to me.
Tonight’s class is Protestants vs Catholics, where they’re teaching the differences between the two.
Next class is about Genesis, and the third is for skeptics. That all should about cover all my questions.
There’s another church not too far from here, about 13 minutes but it’s a little bit out of the way. They’re a non denominational Christian Church that is very accepting of science and twice, by two different people, it’s been recommended to me.
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TNMan
Guest
I’ll be praying for your situation. I’ve found the richness of the Gospel at my LCMS parish and pray that this issue isn’t a hindrance to you and that you can enjoy it. Ultimately, God will place you where He wants you as long as you’re following His will for you. God bless.
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Hope1960
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Thank you! I know the saying, “trust man or trust God” but I think that reading Genesis literally (literalistically?) is the wrong approach.I’ll be praying for your situation. I’ve found the richness of the Gospel at my LCMS parish and pray that this issue isn’t a hindrance to you and that you can enjoy it. Ultimately, God will place you where He wants you as long as you’re following His will for you. God bless.
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Hope1960
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Well, 1ke?I’ve already talked with a priest. Didn’t do any good. And right now we’re in between pastors.
What do you think would come out of talking to a pastor? It’s not like he’s going to change the Mass for lil’ old me.
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steph03
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Permit me to disagree with you. While what you say is true for the bulk of the major lutheran denominations (based originaly on ethnic lines), what I said holds true also. Many divisions were caused by Scriptural disagreement (and when you believe in Sola Scriptura, you must follow what you think the Scriptures teach, well… your interpretation of it anyways.)In short, your comment doesn’t apply to the topic or Lutheran practice.
Some examples;
The AALC broke away from the ELCA when the merged with the LCA over doctrinal issues. Nothing to do with ethnical origin of members, but Scriptural disagreement (yes, even though they both hold to the Book of Concord (for non lutherans, the Book of Concord is a gathering of the lutheran confessions, apologies, creeds, etc).
The Augsburg Lutheran Church separated from the ELCA when the ELCA established full communion with the Episcopal Church (that agreement included a clause to move the ELCA towards episcopacy, which ALC members did not agree with).
The Augustana Catholic Church (yes, it is a lutheran body) which separated from different church bodies as they wanted a more anglo catholic approach than the regular lutheran church bodies currenlty had).
The Conservative Lutheran Association was formed by breakaway churches from different lutheran bodies over conservative/Liberal issues.
The Lutheran Churches of the Reformation is a very conservative group that separated from other very conservative church bodies (which they considered too liberal).
The Orthodox Lutheran Confessional Conference separated from the Lutheran Churches of the Reformation as they thought it was moving too much towards liberalism.
The North American Lutheran Church broke away from the ELCA and ELCIC (Canada) as they tought they were too liberal in their practice and scriptural doctrines and the LCMS too conservative, so they are more what they consider a centrist group.
The Protestant Conference (Lutheran) broke away from the WELS after a intrasynodical controversy and doctrinal disagreement.
The United Lutheran Mission Association broke away from the LCMS after a disagreement about missions and conservative/liberal practices.
I could go on, but you get the idea. The fact is that most of these breaks occured over doctrinal disagreement (even though they all claim to follow the book of Concord). While it is true that the major synods were formed over ethnic origins, all the breaks above had more to do with side effects of Sola Scriptura and self interpretation.
Feel free to disagree, but as I spent a few decades in Lutheranism, I know that it happens there too. (not as bad as other protestant denominations, I agree).
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steph03
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that being said, I agree that my responce is completely off topic… So I stop here… Sorry!
Even if you extend the blame for these on sola scriptura, none of which you mentioned a scriptural reference for, self interpretation has nothing to do with it if you are talking about church bodies.I could go on, but you get the idea. The fact is that most of these breaks occured over doctrinal disagreement (even though they all claim to follow the book of Concord). While it is true that the major synods were formed over ethnic origins, all the breaks above had more to do with side effects of Sola Scriptura and self interpretation.
In most of these instances, you are referring to groups that actually move away from confession Lutheranism, not stating scripture, but instead taking a quatenus subscription to the confessions.
There are lots of liberals in the Catholic Church, as well, willing to dismiss doctrine because of modern political stances, or for other reasons. Likewise with Lutherans.
The hat said, most Lutheran synods are members of with the LWF or ILC. It is the usual, though not universal circumstance that a Lutheran can commune in Synod’s not their own. Why? Because Lutherans follow the basic doctrines found in the confessions.
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Vanny
Guest
I’ve been a member of both. Confirmed LCMS many years ago(don’t remember the age of the Earth being an issue but that was a long time ago. Confirmed in the early '70’s. We were taught literal creationism.
Became a member of an ELCA church back in 1989 when it first formed. The Pastor there was an old Earth creationist. He said what was most important was not the “how” but the WHO that is behind creation.
Have currently been a member of a WELS church since 1993. We live in a rural area where the next closest LCMS is 45 minutes away. My children were baptized and confirmed in this Church.
You are correct that they are the most insistent on literal creationism, of the three.
However, the exact age of the earth has never been discussed, just that fact the God created the world and all in it in 6 literal consecutive 24 hour days. This is taught in WELS.
Actually, many years ago I read “Genesis and the Big Bang” by Gerald Schroeder(an Orthodox Jew) which
tries to reconcile the two. (Hint: the theory of relativity!)
I read this before becoming WELS, but I should re-read it. Good book.
Became a member of an ELCA church back in 1989 when it first formed. The Pastor there was an old Earth creationist. He said what was most important was not the “how” but the WHO that is behind creation.
Have currently been a member of a WELS church since 1993. We live in a rural area where the next closest LCMS is 45 minutes away. My children were baptized and confirmed in this Church.
You are correct that they are the most insistent on literal creationism, of the three.
However, the exact age of the earth has never been discussed, just that fact the God created the world and all in it in 6 literal consecutive 24 hour days. This is taught in WELS.
Actually, many years ago I read “Genesis and the Big Bang” by Gerald Schroeder(an Orthodox Jew) which
tries to reconcile the two. (Hint: the theory of relativity!)
I read this before becoming WELS, but I should re-read it. Good book.
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Similar to a college professor of mine at the Lutheran college I attended.Actually, many years ago I read “Genesis and the Big Bang” by Gerald Schroeder(an Orthodox Jew) which
tries to reconcile the two. (Hint: the theory of relativity!)
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