Yelling / using verbal force to get a point across

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Sometimes, we come across difficult people in our lives… As for me, this can even apply to family members and some times hey can be very stubborn and the only way to get them to listen is to yell. Today we got into arguement, among all things, about mass time. Would it be wrong for the sake of getting a point across, to use verbal force for arguements sake?? Even lacing in an occasional F word in your speech to solidify your points?? Especially at times that you know their wrong, but still pushing those views anyway? I understand the need to be diplomatic and understanding… But sometimes you need to get your point across clearly and efficiently as well.

Thoughts?
 
I think you need to reflect on the question you asked. Is it ok to yell, argue, and use the F word vis-a-vis going to Mass.

oh the irony.
 
I wasnt specifically referring to today, in reference to the F word… I meant sometimes in general especially during those heated moments that you need decisiveness in ana arguement
 
I wasnt specifically referring to today, in reference to the F word… I meant sometimes in general
I don’t believe Jesus would use such tactics when getting his point across. Righteous anger, such a as jesus in the Temple with the money changers, does not encompass what you describe.

Use Jesus as your model and the virtues and Beatitudes as your guide.
 
love the person more than the point you are trying to make.
It sounds like verbal abuse.
Why should anyone have to hear the “F” word on a Sunday morning?
Life is not a war-zone.

Some people react as if everything is on the battlefield.
Check into treatment for PTSD.
 
If someone is screaming obscenities at you, how apt are you to actually listen to what he’s trying to tell you? Personally, the moment I hear obscene language from someone who is already screaming at me, I KNOW I am not going to concede, regardless of the other person’s actual argument. If you are reduced to yelling obscenities at another person, you’ve lost much more than the argument. Chances are, you have lost the respect of the other person as well as any opportunity to actually persuade him to see your point.
 
LilSheep,
I sooo know where you are coming from!

One thing I have learned is that an argument is either over facts which can be substantiated or over opinion including unsubstantiatable facts (like what happened).

A lot of arguments can be avoided by figuring out which one is occurring and if it is the first, looking up the answer.

If it is the second, then just try to end the argument by bowing out. One example is that the other day A got mad at B as the result of a comment B made which A took as having been said in a bad tone of voice. B had not intended that. Each had a different opinion about the tone of voice, and since the event was not videoed, there was no way to investigate which opinion was right. A had the option of accepting B’s version gracefully (Oh, I’m sorry, I misunderstood what was going on) or by B (Oh, I’m sorry I sounded that way).

In the issue of the time of Mass, one could simply say, let’s check by calling or looking online. If the problem is which time to go to Mass… well, one person, the more mature one ;), will agree with the other and let the other see the problems with their solutions.

Like I might suggest to my spouse that going to the early Mass is better because it’s not right before the children’s naptime. He or she might insist that the later Mass is better because the children will have had time to run around and play.

For some reason, the discussion starts looking like it might get heated, so I acquiesce and let my spouse find out that he or she is wrong. Of course, I might find oit that I was wrong but I won’t be terribly embarrassed by that because I conceded.

And of course there is the issue of wifely submission (which is why I tried to keep the above example gender-neutral) I myself am a wife, so often I remeber that and allow my husband to make the decision.

But I wasn’t always like that (and I still slip up sometimes). At those times, my husband tries to remember to take the policy of better to be happy than right, and allows me to make the decision.

All this has helped my family to avoid a lot of fights. When it comes to our children, of course, I just tell them they have to obey, even if the parent is wrong (unless of course it’s an immoral request). They too should allow their parents to be proven wrong.

As to the yelling and use of vulgarities, I do not think using vulgarities is an actual sin, and there are times when the judicious use of a vulgarity can cause the other person enough shock that they step back and reassess their position. However, that means one can use vulgarities only extremely rarely, and of course avoid blaspheming totally, as that is a sin (objectively).

But usually a raised voice indicates anger and frustration, and simply stating that one is feeling that way can send the same message, or one might think that one is too angry and/or frustated to continue the conversation and delay it altogether and thus avoid a fight.

So just save yelling and cussing for the most awful of situations and they will be more effective then, and if yiu are really lucky, the most awful of situations will never occur. And cut yourself some slack if you mess up, because we are all sinners…
 
If someone is screaming obscenities at you, how apt are you to actually listen to what he’s trying to tell you? Personally, the moment I hear obscene language from someone who is already screaming at me, I KNOW I am not going to concede, regardless of the other person’s actual argument. If you are reduced to yelling obscenities at another person, you’ve lost much more than the argument. Chances are, you have lost the respect of the other person as well as any opportunity to actually persuade him to see your point.
Agree! And ponder the phrase, “Kill them with kindness.” 🙂
 
Would it be wrong for the sake of getting a point across, to use verbal force for arguements sake?? Even lacing in an occasional F word in your speech to solidify your points?? Especially at times that you know their wrong, but still pushing those views anyway? I understand the need to be diplomatic and understanding… But sometimes you need to get your point across clearly and efficiently as well.

Thoughts?
Yes. As a high school teacher who spends a great deal of time educating youth on productive communication skills, I have the following observations:
  • The minute you begin yelling or using profanity, you’ve lost your audience. They may continue listening to your words, but they’re no longer interested in conversing; all they want to do is argue.
  • Profanity never solidifies your point of view. It’s course. It closes ears. It tells your audience that you have a limited vocabulary. In the end it may get compliance, but it won’t get agreement. It also breeds a lot of resentment.
  • If I had a quarter for every time I’ve seen profanity and shouting escalate into physical violence, I would have a tidy supplementary income.
  • I can’t think of a bigger waste of time than to continue to push a point of view when you know you’re wrong. That’s just arguing for argument’s sake. Silly.
Shouting and profanity aren’t ways to persuade clearly and efficiently.

Luna
 
Sirry, my intention of the question was not to focus on swearing, with swearing only being a small aspect of it. My question was regarding if it is ok to be argumentative / highly debateful and defending a point which is truly valid. I am not trying to say that I swear alot… Only if i really only have to.
 
Sirry, my intention of the question was not to focus on swearing, with swearing only being a small aspect of it. My question was regarding if it is ok to be argumentative / highly debateful and defending a point which is truly valid. I am not trying to say that I swear alot… Only if i really only have to.
And the question back to you is, “is that a virtuous way to behave?”
 
Sirry, my intention of the question was not to focus on swearing, with swearing only being a small aspect of it. My question was regarding if it is ok to be argumentative / highly debateful and defending a point which is truly valid. I am not trying to say that I swear alot… Only if i really only have to.
No, it’s not. Do you want to convince the other person that your point is valid, or do you simply want to win the argument? All you really succeed in achieving when you resort to yelling at someone is to create the belief in that person that you are a bombastic blow-hard. Yelling at them, and then lacing your yelling with obscenities on top of it, generally do not convince the other person of the truth.
 
The minute you start yelling, you’ve lost.

I am a teacher, and I have a very soft voice. I would not possibly be able to out-yell students.

There are far more effective ways to get their attention and make a point. Far more effective ways!😉

Use your brain, not your lungs.
 
Sirry, my intention of the question was not to focus on swearing, with swearing only being a small aspect of it. My question was regarding if it is ok to be argumentative / highly debateful and defending a point which is truly valid. I am not trying to say that I swear alot… Only if i really only have to.
Begs the question of, “What are the circumstances where you have to swear?”.

Off the top of my head, I can think of none. 🤷
 
The minute you start yelling, you’ve lost.

Use your brain, not your lungs.
I completely agree with every word of the above. I have a very soft voice too, and if I yell or scream, I actually feel faint, and will have a sore throat for days 😃

And if someone uses a swear word I walk away. I do however, have a smile on my face because the moment someone resorts to swearing, I know I just won the argument 😃

Sarah x 🙂
 
For my answer, I would pose some questions (:)): What impact does other people yelling have on you? Does it make you more likely or less likely to interpret their point of view favorably? Does it make you more likely or less likely to view the person in a positive light?

If we’re talking about giving speeches to a general audience, raising one’s voice (passionately, but not angrily) can be a useful rhetorical trick to drive home a point. But in the context of a one-on-one conversation/argument, I cannot think of it as anything but bullying someone into submission to get one’s own way.
 
. Would it be wrong for the sake of getting a point across, to use verbal force for arguements sake?? Even lacing in an occasional F word in your speech to solidify your points?? ?
wrong how?
sinful?
possibly, Jesus has a definite serious warning about the use of words to hurt someone, as does St. James
wrong as in, a really ineffective way to communicate?
most definitely

consider marriage encounter or some other resource for counselling on how to communicate because I can guarantee after years of yelling–nobody is listening (I have this on good authority from my adult children).
 
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