Yemen Bombing

[ralphinal]

After the recent Yemen Bombing, I am falling back into my old line of thought. I want to see if anyone can help

1. if you knew someone planning a crime, would you turn them in?
2. If you found out someone in your family was planning a crime, would you turn them in?
3. Was the bombing a crime in Islam?
4. Why do more Mulims not help stop terrorist activities?
5. Am I missing something?

 

[rossum]

After the recent Yemen Bombing, I am falling back into my old line of thought. I want to see if anyone can help

1. if you knew someone planning a crime, would you turn them in?
2. If you found out someone in your family was planning a crime, would you turn them in?
3. Was the bombing a crime in Islam?
4. Why do more Mulims not help stop terrorist activities?
5. Am I missing something?

Christianity has the doctrine of a just war. The answers to your questions would be different depending on whether the attack in Yemen is seen as part of a just war or not. Were the American Revolutionaries fighting a just war against the British or not?

I strongly suspect that Islam also has a doctrine equivalent to the Christian just war. Given the diffuse nature of authority in Islam, it is probable that someone somewhere has declared actions against Americans in Muslim countries to be a just war.

Those who accept attacks on Americans as part of a just war will give different answers to those questions from those who do not accept those attacks as part of such a war.

All American subjects who fail to alert the lawful Royal authorities of attacks by the terorist traitor George Washington are guilty of support for terrorism.

rossum

 

[ralphinal]

Christianity has the doctrine of a just war. The answers to your questions would be different depending on whether the attack in Yemen is seen as part of a just war or not. Were the American Revolutionaries fighting a just war against the British or not?

I strongly suspect that Islam also has a doctrine equivalent to the Christian just war. Given the diffuse nature of authority in Islam, it is probable that someone somewhere has declared actions against Americans in Muslim countries to be a just war.

Those who accept attacks on Americans as part of a just war will give different answers to those questions from those who do not accept those attacks as part of such a war.

All American subjects who fail to alert the lawful Royal authorities of attacks by the terorist traitor George Washington are guilty of support for terrorism.

rossum

So, by default, can it be said that most Muslims have no issue with these attacks? We see no riots in the streets condeming them, so uprising against those who speak hate. Is it, as the old saying goes, silence shows concent?

 

[rossum]

So, by default, can it be said that most Muslims have no issue with these attacks?

No. I pointed out that Muslim’s attitude to these attacks will depend on whether they see the attacks as part of a just war or not. Different Muslims will have different views. I have no idea which set of views are in the majority.

We see no riots in the streets condeming them, so uprising against those who speak hate.

How many riots were there in a Christian country like the USA aginst Christian terrorism in Northern Ireland? How many riots were there in the USA against the Christian slaughter of 7,000 Muslims at Srebrenica?

Is it, as the old saying goes, silence shows concent?

In my experience silence usually shows indifference: “not my problem”. Do American Christians support the Srebrenica massacre?

rossum

 

[ralphinal]

No. I pointed out that Muslim’s attitude to these attacks will depend on whether they see the attacks as part of a just war or not. Different Muslims will have different views. I have no idea which set of views are in the majority.

I am not sure that anyone does. Even Muslims seem to be torn

How many riots were there in a Christian country like the USA aginst Christian terrorism in Northern Ireland? How many riots were there in the USA against the Christian slaughter of 7,000 Muslims at Srebrenica?

But we don’t usually riot to show our disaproval, do we?

In my experience silence usually shows indifference: “not my problem”. Do American Christians support the Srebrenica massacre?

rossum

How many know about it? Do not forget that Americans are some of the worst informed people with access to information.

 

[rossum]

I am not sure that anyone does. Even Muslims seem to be torn

Agreed. In any large group there will be differing opinions.

But we don’t usually riot to show our disaproval, do we?

It was you who asked for “riots in the streets”.

How many know about it? Do not forget that Americans are some of the worst informed people with access to information.

I take your point here.

rossum

 

[Rocky]

No. I pointed out that Muslim’s attitude to these attacks will depend on whether they see the attacks as part of a just war or not. Different Muslims will have different views. I have no idea which set of views are in the majority.

How many riots were there in a Christian country like the USA aginst Christian terrorism in Northern Ireland? How many riots were there in the USA against the Christian slaughter of 7,000 Muslims at Srebrenica?

In my experience silence usually shows indifference: “not my problem”. Do American Christians support the Srebrenica massacre?

rossum

Seems to me many Christian countries (most especially the USA) sent troops into Bosnia to stop the slaughter, and that Milosevec who ordered it was recently captured and will stand trial for it. Therefore, how can you compare this to what happened in Yemen or other Muslim countries? Which Muslim country has done the same for any of the terrorist bombings these past 30 years or more?

 

[meedo]

After the recent Yemen Bombing, I am falling back into my old line of thought. I want to see if anyone can help

1. if you knew someone planning a crime, would you turn them in?
2. If you found out someone in your family was planning a crime, would you turn them in?
3. Was the bombing a crime in Islam?
4. Why do more Mulims not help stop terrorist activities?
5. Am I missing something?

1- Yes

2- yes

3- yes

4- They do . You just hear except about the ones that slip out.

5- We are all missing stuff or else we will be all knowing all seeing.

 

[meedo]

I am not sure that anyone does. Even Muslims seem to be torn

1-But we don’t usually riot to show our disaproval, do we?

2-How many know about it? Do not forget that Americans are some of the worst informed people with access to information.

1-Demonstrations draw large crouds when things get really bad. Americans have confidence in their country that it will beat the hell out of any body if they dont like it . Why demonstrate against Saddam while you know he is having one ton bombs landing on his head ?

other people demonstrate to draw attention of the world to their plight . America RUNS the world . why demonstrate?

2- Americans are not misinformed. They just dont care much

half Egyptians dont know how to write their names!! thats misinformed !! Majority of Egyptians can work 14 hours a day to eand up with 150 dollars a month. That is whta i call a busy person!!

you are giving excuse for the country that invented the internet to be misinfoemed whil there are people in my country dont know that there is somthing called the north pole!!!

3- in our countris if you are three youth gathered togeather the secret police will arrest you in suspicion of political gathering . and trying to oust the regime bla bla bla…

People barely get their heads above water in our countries weather from poverty , dictatorships or american bombs!

we have a proverb that sayd ‘’ whoever has his hands in the water is not like who has them in the fire’’

all the best

 

[meedo]

Seems to me many Christian countries (most especially the USA) sent troops into Bosnia to stop the slaughter, and that Milosevec who ordered it was recently captured and will stand trial for it. Therefore, how can you compare this to what happened in Yemen or other Muslim countries? Which Muslim country has done the same for any of the terrorist bombings these past 30 years or more?

Muslim countries are coporating with american intelligence to prevent terrorism. You just dont hear about what this help could have meant . you only hear about if somthing happens.

 

[Rocky]

Muslim countries are coporating with american intelligence to prevent terrorism. You just dont hear about what this help could have meant . you only hear about if somthing happens.

So why do Muslim countries feel that it is the US’ job to prevent terrorism? Why don’t they do more of it themselves?

 

[meedo]

So why do Muslim countries feel that it is the US’ job to prevent terrorism? Why don’t they do more of it themselves?

That what i was saying! ofcourse we have terrorism against us as well and Egypt has had many terrorist bombings .

America have an equal responsibility of erasing the reasons for terrorism.

To not support dictators against the will of their prople even if it is against its interests

To not invade Muslim countris and interfere with the wishes and the choices of its people

to stop supporting the israeli occupation of palestinian lands and to treat israel as an accupier just like saddam invaded quait was treated.

its not all our job , many reasons for terrorism starts from America’s own actions.

 

[rossum]

So why do Muslim countries feel that it is the US’ job to prevent terrorism? Why don’t they do more of it themselves?

Perhaps because America does not give Muslim countries access to the technology they use to hunt terrorists but only allow American troops to use it. All those spy-satellites, pilotless drones and smart bombs are kept by the Americans for themselves. If you won’t sell them to Muslim countries then they will expect you to use them yourselves.

rossum

 

[rossum]

Seems to me many Christian countries (most especially the USA) sent troops into Bosnia to stop the slaughter, and that Milosevec who ordered it was recently captured and will stand trial for it. Therefore, how can you compare this to what happened in Yemen or other Muslim countries? Which Muslim country has done the same for any of the terrorist bombings these past 30 years or more?

Saudi Arabia and Jordan have both arrested terrorists. IIRC the Saudis have executed some of them. Bosnia was a NATO operation and the only Moslem country in NATO is Turkey. For historical reasons (the Ottoman empire) using Turkish troops in the Balkans would have been politically unwise so it was not done. Would America accept Moslem troops on its soil to help with the aftermath of 9/11? No, I don’t think so either.

rossum

 

[ralphinal]

Meedo, thanks for your points. Some of them are excellent. Some of them made me think. You are right about the lack of information some of these countries have.

Anyway, I have several minors from college (long story). One of them is military history. Rossum brought up a good point that we should address. The US WILL NOT share its most advanced tachnology. The ironic part of the whole thing is that that technology is not the best at preventing terrorism. THe most effective is the man on the street making contact and getting information from the inside. THe deal is that those without the technology want it, and those with it but without the man on the street need the inside information and cannot get it.

Now, let us discuss one of Meedo’s points: should we be involved in a country that supports terrorism? In Afganistan, the Talaban supported bin Laden. They would give him safe haven forever. Was it wrong for us to get involved there?

 

[rossum]

In Afganistan, the Talaban supported bin Laden. They would give him safe haven forever. Was it wrong for us to get involved there?

You said you have studied some military history. Have a look at the history of the Afghan wars:

First Afghan War. The British do not like the ruler of Afghanistan, they invade and put in place a new ruler more amenable to them. The Afghans take to the hills. The British reduce their garrisons due to other commitments. The Afghans come down from the hills and overthrow the British puppet ruler.

Second Afghan War. The British do not like the ruler of Afghanistan, they invade and put in place a new ruler more amenable to them. The Afghans take to the hills. The British reduce their garrisons due to other commitments. The Afghans come down from the hills and overthrow the British puppet ruler.

Third Afghan War. The British do not like the ruler of Afghanistan, they invade and put in place a new ruler more amenable to them. The Afghans take to the hills. The British reduce their garrisons due to other commitments. The Afghans come down from the hills and overthrow the British puppet ruler.

Fourth Afghan War. The Russians do not like the ruler of Afghanistan, they invade and put in place a new ruler more amenable to them. The Afghans take to the hills. The Russians reduce their garrisons due to other commitments. The Afghans come down from the hills and overthrow the Russian puppet ruler. The British finally learned something!

Fifth Afghan War. The Americans do not like the ruler of Afghanistan, they invade and put in place a new ruler more amenable to them. The Afghans take to the hills. The Americans reduce their garrisons due to other commitments. The Afghans come down from the hills …

It was not wrong for you to get involved, but it would have been more sensible to have got involved in a less direct way. Other imperialists have tried the same thing before and failed.

rossum

 

[ralphinal]

You said you have studied some military history. Have a look at the history of the Afghan wars:

First Afghan War. The British do not like the ruler of Afghanistan, they invade and put in place a new ruler more amenable to them. The Afghans take to the hills. The British reduce their garrisons due to other commitments. The Afghans come down from the hills and overthrow the British puppet ruler.

Second Afghan War. The British do not like the ruler of Afghanistan, they invade and put in place a new ruler more amenable to them. The Afghans take to the hills. The British reduce their garrisons due to other commitments. The Afghans come down from the hills and overthrow the British puppet ruler.

Third Afghan War. The British do not like the ruler of Afghanistan, they invade and put in place a new ruler more amenable to them. The Afghans take to the hills. The British reduce their garrisons due to other commitments. The Afghans come down from the hills and overthrow the British puppet ruler.

Fourth Afghan War. The Russians do not like the ruler of Afghanistan, they invade and put in place a new ruler more amenable to them. The Afghans take to the hills. The Russians reduce their garrisons due to other commitments. The Afghans come down from the hills and overthrow the Russian puppet ruler. The British finally learned something!

Fifth Afghan War. The Americans do not like the ruler of Afghanistan, they invade and put in place a new ruler more amenable to them. The Afghans take to the hills. The Americans reduce their garrisons due to other commitments. The Afghans come down from the hills …

It was not wrong for you to get involved, but it would have been more sensible to have got involved in a less direct way. Other imperialists have tried the same thing before and failed.

rossum

Anyway, the issue is not the government per se. It is the fact that they harbored those who attacked us. They would have never done anything to them. Now they are in Pakestan, and look at what is going on there.

The fact is that for whatever reason, many Muslim nations do nothing against them. The Suadis give huge money to these groups, and then “try” to help us. They only get involved when they are attacked.

 

[rossum]

Anyway, the issue is not the government per se. It is the fact that they harbored those who attacked us. They would have never done anything to them. Now they are in Pakestan, and look at what is going on there.

The fact is that for whatever reason, many Muslim nations do nothing against them. The Suadis give huge money to these groups, and then “try” to help us. They only get involved when they are attacked.

The Americans also gave them money when they were fighting the Russians during the Fourth Afghan War. It may well have been their success in defeating the Russians that encouraged them to take on the Americans.

rossum

 

[ralphinal]

The Americans also gave them money when they were fighting the Russians during the Fourth Afghan War. It may well have been their success in defeating the Russians that encouraged them to take on the Americans.

rossum

That was one part of it. Another, often overlooked factor, was in the mid 1990s when Bill Clinton had tied them back to the bombing of an embassy. He launched 50 cruise missles at their camp. It should have been game over. However, the missles had to fly over Pakestain. We notified them and got permission for it. One of the Ministers (actually of Defence), notified them of the attack. By the time the missles landed, the camp was empty. This also fed into their sense of pride and ability.

This is one case that it is good that Ralph was not in charge. The next 50 missles would have been shot at that guy.

 

[Sam_777]

Those bombing in Yemen were to fulfil Muhammed’s teaching to turn the Jews, Christians, and pagans out from Arabian Peninsula.

Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4366:
“It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.”
(E) (A)

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 716:
“Thursday! And how great that Thursday was! The ailment of Allah’s Apostle became worse (on Thursday) and he said, fetch me something so that I may write to you something after which you will never go astray." The people (present there) differed in this matter, and it was not right to differ before a prophet. Some said, “What is wrong with him ? (Do you think ) he is delirious (seriously ill)? Ask him ( to understand his state ).” So they went to the Prophet and asked him again. The Prophet said, “Leave me, for my present state is better than what you call me for.” Then he ordered them to do three things. He said, "Turn the pagans out of the 'Arabian Peninsula;…”
(E) (A)