Yep, another annulment thread

[TwinMommy]

I am starting to wig out from different things I have read and I need to a clear cut answer.

I am on my second marriage. I do have two daughters from my first marriage.

1)Since a divorce an annulment are not the same thing, I will have to get one right?

2)This does not change anything regarding my daughters does it? I don’t have custody of them.(one is now an adult)

3)For my current marriage to be valid, will we have to get remarried in the Catholic Church?

4)If the answer is yes, what if my husband doesn’t see that as something he wants to do, since we are married?

I am really worried that it is going to come down to me not having a valid marriage and not being able to partake in the Eucharist.

 

[TimothyH]

You are going to get lots of answeres here, but this isn’t the place to discuss it.

As one who has gone through the annulment process, I suggest that you make an appointment to speak with a deacon or preist at your parish. That is where you will find clear cut answers, not on a message board.

 

[AussieTrish]

Prayers for you, your daughter, and for a blessed, happy future.

 

[LilyM]

I am starting to wig out from different things I have read and I need to a clear cut answer.

I am on my second marriage. I do have two daughters from my first marriage.

1)Since a divorce an annulment are not the same thing, I will have to get one right?

Depends on the circumstances of yourself and your first husband at the time of the marriage - eg were either of you Catholic at the time? Did the marriage take place in a Catholic Church?

2)This does not change anything regarding my daughters does it? I don’t have custody of them.(one is now an adult)

No, they will not be considered illegitimate or anything, if that is what you are asking.

3)For my current marriage to be valid, will we have to get remarried in the Catholic Church?

Yes.

4)If the answer is yes, what if my husband doesn’t see that as something he wants to do, since we are married?

Talk to your priest. Radical sanation (which does not require the participation of both parties) might be an option.

I am really worried that it is going to come down to me not having a valid marriage and not being able to partake in the Eucharist.

The only way to know is to ask your priest - take all your questions to him. An annulment is not guaranteed. Pray for yourself and your husband to be granted the grace to accept whatever answer you are given as to the possibility of annulment, and to do God’s will first and foremost.

 

[TwinMommy]

Depends on the circumstances of yourself and your first husband at the time of the marriage - eg were either of you Catholic at the time? Did the marriage take place in a Catholic Church?

No, they will not be considered illegitimate or anything, if that is what you are asking.

Yes.

Talk to your priest. Radical sanation (which does not require the participation of both parties) might be an option.

The only way to know is to ask your priest - take all your questions to him. An annulment is not guaranteed. Pray for yourself and your husband to be granted the grace to accept whatever answer you are given as to the possibility of annulment, and to do God’s will first and foremost.

Neither of us were Christians of any kind. We didn’t have a church wedding, justice of the peace, and actually the same why me and my husband were married.

 

[YADA]

Neither of us were Christians of any kind. We didn’t have a church wedding, justice of the peace, and actually the same why me and my husband were married.

You will need to make an application for a decision on the validity of your first marriage - an annulment … If you - and/or your first spouse had been catholic the fact that you were married before a justice of the peace would immediately make the sacramental nature of the marriage invalid … the fact that neither of you were catholic makes that decision more complex … that neither of you were Christian … not sure how that comes into play … I was a baptized and my ex was not and we were married before a JP …we had to go through the full annulment process when I came into the Church … and my ex was not cooperative which may have been part of the reason it took so long … .

No one here can give you specifics because except for some certainties [like a catholic who marries civilly outside the Church] everyone’s case is very unique and needs careful consideration … the Church takes marriage seriously and declaring that a sacramental marriage did not take place even more so.

You children are legitimate - a civil marriage took place … even if later dissolved by divorce … their status is determined by that civil union … My opinion is that in truth all children are gifts from God and therefore legitimate

Once your first marriage is determined - you will need to have your second marriage normalized in the church … this can be very simple - a restatement of your vows before the priest …serious business but simple in time - and at no cost. I remember that time so many years ago - We wanted to be united with Christ in our life … that this was very important to our marriage - we met with Father, went to confession and after a Saturday Vigil Mass renewed our marriage - this time in truth, right understanding and in faith … as Bishop Fulton Sheen said we were “Three to Get Married” // a book I highly recommend

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I’m curious. What difference does it make to the Church whether a child is “legitimate” or not, through no action of its own?

What if I have one child born before we were civilly married, one conceived but not born yet before our civil marriage, and then a third conceived and born before our church validation, then one or more conceived after the Church wedding?

Does the Church look at these siblings as unequal in some material way?

Alan

 

[YADA]

…

Talk to your priest. Radical sanation (which does not require the participation of both parties) might be an option.

While both spouses may not have to be notified - the consent of both parties is necessary - “A marriage cannot be radically sanated if consent is lacking in either or both of the parties” (CIC 1162:1)

For you to do this without your husbands knowledge or consent would require a serious reason “A sanation can be granted validly even when one or both of the parties are unaware of it, but it is not to be granted except for serious reason” (CIC 1164).

The only way to know is to ask your priest - take all your questions to him. An annulment is not guaranteed. Pray for yourself and your husband to be granted the grace to accept whatever answer you are given as to the possibility of annulment, and to do God’s will first and foremost.

Good advice … meet with your priest and work on your particular situation and move ahead in faith - not fear

 

[LilyM]

While both spouses may not have to be notified - the consent of both parties is necessary - “A marriage cannot be radically sanated if consent is lacking in either or both of the parties” (CIC 1162:1)

For you to do this without your husbands knowledge or consent would require a serious reason “A sanation can be granted validly even when one or both of the parties are unaware of it, but it is not to be granted except for serious reason” (CIC 1164).

Fair enough. But it can help in cases where the main objection is to the ritual (such as it is) involved in convalidation. That is what I meant by ‘participation’.

And I should think that the fact that one partner desperately wants to live a life at rights with God and in a valid and sacramental marriage and has done everything possible, and that through no fault of theirs the other does not, is pretty grave reason to proceed.

 

[YADA]

I’m curious. What difference does it make to the Church whether a child is “legitimate” or not, through no action of its own?

What if I have one child born before we were civilly married, one conceived but not born yet before our civil marriage, and then a third conceived and born before our church validation, then one or more conceived after the Church wedding?

Does the Church look at these siblings as unequal in some material way?

Alan

No … As you know from your love for all your children - they are all legitimate

This comes up because in annulment processes one spouse will try to use this as a reason for an annulment not to be granted … Civil law is what makes - in the eyes of the law- a child legitimate or not …and this deals primarily with inheritances, etc …

All children are gifts from God and are legitimate … … and fun too

 

[AlanFromWichita]

No … As you know from your love for all your children - they are all legitimate

This comes up because in annulment processes one spouse will try to use this as a reason for an annulment not to be granted … Civil law is what makes - in the eyes of the law- a child legitimate or not …and this deals primarily with inheritances, etc …

All children are gifts from God and are legitimate … … and fun too

Thank you for the information; that’s what I wanted to know. :tiphat:

Alan

 

[YADA]

Fair enough. But it can help in cases where the main objection is to the ceremony involved in con validation. That is what I meant by ‘participation’.

Yes - the possibility is there …

These cases are all complex … until they get the first marriage of this person dealt with they can;t deal with the second one … and the OP did not say if their current spouse had been previously married *

The con-validation can be very simple - healing and a strengthening moment for a couple … it is a blessing … the annulment process is far more arduous IMHOP*

 

[Mariem2]

I’m curious. What difference does it make to the Church whether a child is “legitimate” or not, through no action of its own?

What if I have one child born before we were civilly married, one conceived but not born yet before our civil marriage, and then a third conceived and born before our church validation, then one or more conceived after the Church wedding?

Does the Church look at these siblings as unequal in some material way?

Alan

Unless I’m mistaken, having been born out of wedlock used to be an impediment to being admitted to the priesthood. I don’t know where the rule was rigidly enforced but I’m fairly sure that there was such a rule.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

If you want to become Catholic, your marriage must be blessed (convalidated) by the Church. Your previous marriage must first be ruled on by your diocesan marriage tribunal. If neither you nor your first husband were baptized Christians at the time, this can probably be dealt with easily. It is possible for your current marriage to be blessed even if your husband is not cooperative. Hopefully, of course, he will be happy for you!

Talk to a priest about beginning this process and about starting RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) classes. You have made a great first step by reading Catholic Answers. You can find Catholic Bibles and the Catechism of the Catholic Church online.

 

[LilyM]

I’m curious. What difference does it make to the Church whether a child is “legitimate” or not, through no action of its own?

What if I have one child born before we were civilly married, one conceived but not born yet before our civil marriage, and then a third conceived and born before our church validation, then one or more conceived after the Church wedding?

Does the Church look at these siblings as unequal in some material way?

Alan

It should make absolutely none.

In ages past I think illegitimate children were not allowed to become priests, and more recently some priests in Argentina were criticised for denying baptisms to children born out of wedlock (illegitimately), so that too may have been common practice.

So in times past it would have been significant whether a child born in an invalid marriage was considered legitimate or not.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

I’m curious. What difference does it make to the Church whether a child is “legitimate” or not, through no action of its own?

What if I have one child born before we were civilly married, one conceived but not born yet before our civil marriage, and then a third conceived and born before our church validation, then one or more conceived after the Church wedding?

Does the Church look at these siblings as unequal in some material way?

Alan

The Church does not care. All are equal before God. It is only humans who obsess over “legitimacy.”

 

[Elizium23]

Illegitimacy used to be a canonical impediment to ordination, but as of the 1983 Code, with a cursory search, I can’t find any current canonical effect of illegitimacy. There are certain references to determining the legitimacy of children, but nothing of its effect.

 

[YADA]

Unless I’m mistaken, having been born out of wedlock used to be an impediment to being admitted to the priesthood. I don’t know where the rule was rigidly enforced but I’m fairly sure that there was such a rule.

I do not believe that this was a universal rule in all ages and in all times. In the current Canon - this is not listed as an impediment though I believe it was in the previous …

Some religious orders had this as an impediment …

However, I do not believe that a person would be denied a vocation today for this reason

 

[Mariem2]

I do not believe that this was a universal rule in all ages and in all times. In the current Canon - this is not listed as an impediment though I believe it was in the previous …

Some religious orders had this as an impediment …

However, I do not believe that a person would be denied a vocation today for this reason

No, it isn’t an impediment now. Perhaps Vatican 2 saw an end to it? I remember being told about it in school. I’m fairly sure the nun said it had something to do with the possibility that the parents’ weakness could be passed on to the child…“sins of the father”. Even then (late 50’s/early 60’s) our otherwise very straitlaced nun gave me the impression that she didn’t think much of the rule.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

However, I do not believe that a person would be denied a vocation today for this reason

Evidently not!

Alan