'Yep, I'm Gay': Happy 20th out anniversary, Ellen DeGeneres

[Peter_J]

I would prefer God to impress me.

Therein lies one of the greater mysteries: the God I believe in is quite capable of impressing people, and has done so but not very often. I guess he prefers to stay in the background, for the most part.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

Human DNA is present from the moment of conception, therefore it’s a human being from the moment of conception.

Human DNA is present in a tumor, so a tumor is a human being. Woe to the doctors who remove the tumor. Human DNA is present in a clipped toenail, so the clipped toenail is a human being. Woe to the pedicurist to kill the toenail… I suggest you start thinking a bit deeper.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

Therein lies one of the greater mysteries: the God I believe in is quite capable of impressing people, and has done so but not very often. I guess he prefers to stay in the background, for the most part.

Well, the silentium Dei could be considered a mystery, or an excellent argument that there is no one “out there”.

 

[Midwest88]

Have you watched the afternoon game shows, like “Wheel of Fortune” and Jeopardy" lately? The homosexual participants talk about their spouses without any embarrassment. Neither the hosts, nor the audience bats an eye, and obviously the sponsors keep their commercials on the air. They don’t mind. And this change came in a measly 20 years! Jolly good show, I daresay!

Yea I noticed. You seem quite happy about this, as if you were a child on Christmas day getting his Red Ryder BB gun.

Also, the hosts, the other players and audiences are on television. There there for the show - not to talk about politics.

 

[Expatreprocedit]

Human DNA is present in a tumor, so a tumor is a human being. Woe to the doctors who remove the tumor. Human DNA is present in a clipped toenail, so the clipped toenail is a human being. Woe to the pedicurist to kill the toenail… I suggest you start thinking a bit deeper.

You have a serious problem with logical thinking.

 

[Midwest88]

You have a serious problem with logical thinking.

I’ve noticed this as well.

 

[Peter_J]

You have a serious problem with logical thinking.

But in the case of the post you quoted, surely Vera was deliberately speaking illogically to make the point that it does not make sense to say “Blank has human DNA, so it follows that Blank is a human being.”

 

[at9009]

Human DNA is present in a tumor, so a tumor is a human being. Woe to the doctors who remove the tumor. Human DNA is present in a clipped toenail, so the clipped toenail is a human being. Woe to the pedicurist to kill the toenail… I suggest you start thinking a bit deeper.

The issue with your logic is that if a tumor is removed, it lacks the ability to develop into a human being. Also if left alone, the tumor will result in the death of the mom and will not develop into a human being. A toe nail removed lacks the ablity to develop into a human being.

A fertilized human embryo, however, if allowed will develop into a human being. That is not like the other examples so you are basically describing apples and oranges. And by removing a fertilized embryo from developing, you are stopping a child from being born. That is a huge difference. So your analogy kind of falls short.

However, once again, this abortion discussion isn’t really relevant to this thread at all so I would suggest it be opened up into a new thread or discussion.

 

[mikekle]

Big difference, it’s not just “in the news”, it’s the in news with people being charged and convicted to typically long sentences for what amount to high level felonies. And rightly so, pedophilia, child molestation, etc… are crimes against children. If it’s one thing societies tend to abhor it’s crimes and violence against children. These types of crimes are often quite analogous with rape in terms of how society views them (indeed because some forms of pedophilia actually are statutory rape). Acts in the spectrum around pedophilia are not particularly analogous with two consenting adults having a relationship with each other regardless of the sex of the two parties.

One can also look to the past to see other things that were once taboo or illegal, that are now widely accepted. Sin is progressive, its not like we reach a certain level of sexual sin and then just plateau, not willing to delve any deeper, doesnt work like that.

besides that, in a world today where many people think its totally fine to murder unborn children, how long before they think its ok to commit other terrible acts on kids?

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

But in the case of the post you quoted, surely Vera was deliberately speaking illogically to make the point that it does not make sense to say “Blank has human DNA, so it follows that Blank is a human being.”

Very well said. What I said was not illogical. Just a roundabout way to show that DNA only leads to a human tissue and not a human being.

The issue with your logic is that if a tumor is removed, it lacks the ability to develop into a human being.

On its own, yes. But the same applies to the zygote.

Also if left alone, the tumor will result in the death of the mom and will not develop into a human being. A toe nail removed lacks the ablity to develop into a human being.

This is only true on our current level of technology. Having the biological information from the “host”, theoretically a cell can be cloned into a replica of the original.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

Yea I noticed. You seem quite happy about this, as if you were a child on Christmas day getting his Red Ryder BB gun.

Of course I am glad. Why wouldn’t I be? More love and less hatred is always a good thing.

Also, the hosts, the other players and audiences are on television. There there for the show - not to talk about politics.

True. But the silent attitude is what makes the difference. I was also happy about the people who finance the shows via their advertising. They vote with their pocketbook. Don’t forget that the attitude of the audience (both in the studio and in front of the TV sets) is what makes or breaks where the advertising dollars will be spent.

So the lack of negative feedback is very significant. It shows that the average viewers accept homosexual relationships as normal. None of the fascistoid approach of Hitler and Putin survives in this country. Certainly something to be cheerful about.

 

[Peter_J]

Of course I am glad. Why wouldn’t I be? More love and less hatred is always a good thing.

True. But the silent attitude is what makes the difference. I was also happy about the people who finance the shows via their advertising. They vote with their pocketbook. Don’t forget that the attitude of the audience (both in the studio and in front of the TV sets) is what makes or breaks where the advertising dollars will be spent.

So the lack of negative feedback is very significant. It shows that the average viewers accept homosexual relationships as normal.

I agree that the silences you’re talking about signify a change from yesteryear. When two men, or two women, say “we’re gay” or “we’re married” I don’t feel a need to respond by making retching noises or whatever – as I alluded to earlier – but that does not mean that I accept homosexual relationships as normal.

But I would say that it signifies, in your own words, less hatred and more love for the homosexual person.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

I agree that the silences you’re talking about signify a change from yesteryear. When two men, or two women, say “we’re gay” or “we’re married” I don’t feel a need to respond by making retching noises or whatever – as I alluded to earlier – but that does not mean that I accept homosexual relationships as normal.

Actually that is already a huge advancement. Maybe you (personally) never will, but that is just fine. In a generation or two, it will be accepted as normal.

But I would say that it signifies, in your own words, less hatred and more love for the homosexual person.

Agreed. And it is a wonderful thing.

 

[Peter_J]

Agreed. And it is a wonderful thing.

Shucks, such praise for lil ol’ conservative us? shaw:

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

Shucks, such praise for lil ol’ conservative us? shaw:

I don’t think that you are (personally) an actual representative of the so-called “conservatives”. However, I would be very happy if I would be wrong.

 

[jmcrae]

-]/-]

But in the case of the post you quoted, surely Vera was deliberately speaking illogically to make the point that it does not make sense to say “Blank has human DNA, so it follows that Blank is a human being.”

The fetus is obviously a living creature; not a tumour or toe nail clipping. It’s got human DNA; not dog, or cat, or tadpole DNA; therefore it is a human being, and not something else.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

The fetus is obviously a living creature; not a tumour or toe nail clipping. It’s got human DNA; not dog, or cat, or tadpole DNA; therefore it is a human being, and not something else.

There is nothing obvious here. The “human” DNA is a hazy concept. How much deviance is accepted before the mutant is not called a “human” any more? And even if the DNA is “there”, it is just a human tissue, which MAY develop into a human BEING, given the right circumstances.