Yes, Virginia, homophobic hate crimes do exist

[kelvinf]

Um…I don’t see anybody except NAMBLA and child molesters going around trying to pervert children.

Then you are probably not informed about what gay activists want kids to learn in schools at very early ages. In fact, in some areas, kids are already being brainwashed all thanks to gay militants and their peers.

And despite that fact, Jesus STILL has compassion and sympathy for those individuals. They are His children as well. He was saying that they are damning themselves in their behavior, all the more reason to feel compassion for them.

Jesus used a whip to force out the folks who had hijacked the temple. How sad you weren’t there to instruct him to have compassion and sympathy for them.

When Catholics here discuss their opposition to homosexuality and the impacts of gay marriage on society, you always jump in and start crying compassion. Your tactic doesn’t work! I wanted to make that utterly clear to you. We will never relent in our efforts to oppose such a disgusting immoral behaviour. We will say and do everything necessary to defend our beliefs. So get used to it.

 

[LaSainte]

How about the rapist/murderer? Even though he doesn’t have a bias against heterosexual women, he clearly targeted them. However, hate crime laws don’t see her life as being as important than that of the gay man.

And I disagree with your characterization above. Why is it not as bad if my son is killed by a mugger than it is for a gay man to be killed because he is gay? Why is my son’s life not worth as much as a gay man’s life?

The problem with “hate crime” laws is that they put different values on people, ie, we are NOT equal in the eyes of the law.

Peace

Tim

I didn’t say it wasn’t “as bad”, after all, a person is still dead. What I said was that the PERSON doing the killing is more demented if he just targeted a black man out of the blue to drag to death behind a truck simply because he hates an entire race of people, than the trigger-happy mugger who just wanted a wallet and got flustered. That man obviously has serious mental and emotional problems, is more dangerous to society at large, and should be incarcerated for longer.

 

[LaSainte]

Then you are probably not informed about what gay activists want kids to learn in schools at very early ages. In fact, in some areas, kids are already being brainwashed all thanks to gay militants and their peers.

Jesus used a whip to force out the folks who had hijacked the temple. How sad you weren’t there to instruct him to have compassion and sympathy for them.

When Catholics here discuss their opposition to homosexuality and the impacts of gay marriage on society, you always jump in and start crying compassion. Your tactic doesn’t work! I wanted to make that utterly clear to you. We will never relent in our efforts to oppose such a disgusting immoral behaviour. We will say and do everything necessary to defend our beliefs. So get used to it.

The ONE example you people always throw out for your prejudices and your basic meanness toward certain types of people is always “Jesus in the Temple”, the ONE time Jesus ever lost His temper. Forget about the 99% of the time when Jesus is saying “Love your enemies”, “Father forgive them, they know not what they do”, & etc. When the gays take up residence in the Vatican and start selling consecrated hosts, feel free to knock their block off. Until then, perhaps a little more compassion is justified.

 

[LaSainte]

Again, we don’t have the distinction between categories because of the nature of the crime or the character of the victim, we have them because of the distinct degree of culpability of the murderer: specifically, to what extent can he be really and truly held accountable for what he has done?

So, again, what does “hate” to have to do with it?

I wouldn’t personally call it hate, I would call it malice. And I think that the more malicious the crime, the greater the punishment should be, whether the victim is gay, straight, man, woman, black, white, elderly, unborn.

For example, I think Kermit Gosnell is a far more malicious and dangerous character than you average late-term abortionist and I think his punishment should reflect that. He is clearly a deranged psychopath. But guess what? They could only pin him with straight-up first-degree murder because that is the most serious charge they could come up with.

Same with child abuse. “Aggravated child abuse” is as bad as it gets.

I believe there should be convictions that go beyond this, that speak to the sheer “evilness” of the person committing the crime, they should be called crimes of malice, and I think they should carry an extra sentence.

 

[andrewstx]

San Francisco eh? Hmmm…

No it is not better. You have links to reputable sources?

You did not know that Harvey Milk lived and died in SF?

Please do us all a favor and read it for yourself on Wikipedia, I just did if only to refresh my memory.

I had forgotten that the assasinations of Mayor Moscone and Harvey Milk happened very soon after the mass suicide of Jim Jones and his church in Guiana.

 

[gracepoole]

Try to think about the argument you’re advancing here.

“Some people say hate crimes are overexaggerated. So here’s a single documented incident of a hate crime. Therefore, hate crimes aren’t overexaggerated.”

You get the problem with that, right?

Clearly the point is that even when one attempts to find common ground among all Catholics (heck, among all humans) regarding violence done to a specific subgroup, this is often met with a resistance to even this basic ethical premise. Witness this, which really doesn’t deal with the violence that some homosexuals experience and is rather a knee jerk reaction to any mention of gays and lesbians:

[SIGN]I personally have ZERO sympathy and compassion for gays who justify and prompt their perserve lifestyle![/SIGN]

I assume you meant “perverse” here. Regardless, your lack of compassion for gays and lesbians is a separate subject (one I’m relieved I don’t have to engage with). This thread’s focus is on physical attacks on gays and lesbians. LaSainte’s point below seems most apt here:

There are people on this site who are flat-out prejudiced against gays to the point where they are blinded of any sympathy or compassion. The first thing they feel when they read stories like this is annoyance that the “gay lobby” is going to use this as propaganda. Keep in mind that a HUMAN BEING was nearly killed, and yes, it does matter WHY.

Whenever you have a group of people who are targeted for violence just because of the color of their skin or their mannerisms or who they choose to be with or who they voted for in the election, you have tyranny and hatred and terrorism and fear. And that MATTERS.

 

[Nimzovik]

I think the OP is just saying that some posters here act like every time an attack on a homosexual is brought up, they treat it as “propaganda for the gay agenda” which simply isn’t true. That would be like saying every time someone mentions a catholic being attack it’s really just “propaganda for the catholic agenda” Whether we disagree with a person or no, we have to acknowledge that horrible crimes do happen. And there isn’t a excuse for it.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm… of course! It would be unthinkable! Certainly no Gay Activist/organization would ever think about endeavoring to sway opinion on CAF! How could one even entertain the idea!!

 

[Nimzovik]

Mr. Dan White (the man who shot Harvey Milk) had indeed worked with him - as a City Supervisor. Mr. Milk also wasn’t the sole target, nor did it have anything to do with Mr. Milk’s sexual orientation. The two of them had worked closely together on several initiatives, but had grown apart following Mr. White’s opposition to a juvenile group home that would be operated by the Sisters of the Good Shepherd opening in his district. Mr. Milk strongly supported the opening of the home. Mr. White, faced with financial difficulties based on the low salary of City Supervisors and conflict with several other supervisors regarding what he saw as “corruption” within city politics, resigned his position as Supervisor on Nov. 10, 1978. His district, realizing that the mayor - whom they opposed - would appoint Mr. White’s replacement, raised funds to help Mr. White with his financial problems provided that he resumed his position as Supervisor. On Nov. 14, he withdrew his resignation. At this time, having initially agreed to reappoint Mr White, Mayor Moscone was successfully lobbied by Mr. Milk, Ms. Carol Silver (another City Supervisor), and Mr. Willie Brown (at that time a California assemblyman, later Mayor of San Francisco) to appoint Mr. Don Horanzy, a liberal Federal Housing official to Mr. White’s conservative district. With the chaos following the Jonestown incident, Mr. Horanzy’s appointment was delayed and scheduled to be formally announced on Nov. 27.

That was the date that Mr. White entered through a window of city hall - which several others working in that same building testified they did on a regular basis as well, using the windows as shortcuts to their offices - and proceeded first to Mayor Moscone’s office. When Mayor Moscone refused to reinstate Mr White as a supervisor, Mr. White shot him several times. Mr White then went back to his own office, meeting Mr. Milk on the way. At Mr. White’s request, Mr. Milk joined him in the office. Once the door was shut, Mr. White shot Mr. Milk and fled the scene.

This was a horrible crime, perpetrated by a disturbed man who saw political forces aligning against him in what he thought was a conspiracy. But to claim that Mr. Milk’s sexual orientation had anything to do with it is mistaken at best, and a deliberate untruth at worst.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm… So the truth comes out.

 

[Nimzovik]

The ONE example you people always throw out for your prejudices and your basic meanness toward certain types of people is always “Jesus in the Temple”, the ONE time Jesus ever lost His temper. Forget about the 99% of the time when Jesus is saying “Love your enemies”, “Father forgive them, they know not what they do”, & etc. When the gays take up residence in the Vatican and start selling consecrated hosts, feel free to knock their block off. Until then, perhaps a little more compassion is justified.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm… Did not Our Lord also refer to people as ‘Vipers?’
"White washed sepulchers?’ and “It would be better for a millstone to be tied around a man’s neck…etc.”

 

[Gricken]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm… of course! It would be unthinkable! Certainly no Gay Activist/organization would ever think about endeavoring to sway opinion on CAF! How could one even entertain the idea!!

This is exactly what I am talking about. It’s always met with sarcasm. I didn’t say that gay activist don’t try and sway opinion here (I remember at least one thread on here where I guy freely admitted it) But I do find that whole attitude very unhelpful.

 

[LaSainte]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm… Did not Our Lord also refer to people as ‘Vipers?’
"White washed sepulchers?’ and “It would be better for a millstone to be tied around a man’s neck…etc.”

We are dealing with a group of people who don’t understand that what they are doing is wrong. It is not right to treat them as one would treat a murderer or a child molester. They need to be treated with compassion and love and gentle correction. “They know not what they do.”

 

[RKO]

Freud would have had a ball with discussions like this one.

 

[ahollars]

The ONE example you people always throw out for your prejudices and your basic meanness toward certain types of people is always “Jesus in the Temple”, the ONE time Jesus ever lost His temper. Forget about the 99% of the time when Jesus is saying “Love your enemies”, “Father forgive them, they know not what they do”, & etc. When the gays take up residence in the Vatican and start selling consecrated hosts, feel free to knock their block off. Until then, perhaps a little more compassion is justified.

Pope admits there is a ‘gay lobby’ at the highest levels of the Vatican

You were saying…

 

[kelvinf]

The ONE example you people always throw out for your prejudices and your basic meanness toward certain types of people is always “Jesus in the Temple”, the ONE time Jesus ever lost His temper. Forget about the 99% of the time when Jesus is saying “Love your enemies”, “Father forgive them, they know not what they do”, & etc. When the gays take up residence in the Vatican and start selling consecrated hosts, feel free to knock their block off. Until then, perhaps a little more compassion is justified.

You are wrong again! Mk 3:5 “Looking around at them with anger and grieved at their hardness of heart, he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out and his hand was restored.”

Your interpretation of scripture is flawed. You come across like someone who would refuse to pay taxes because Jesus specificially said that we should render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s. So until Caesar comes back from the dead, you don’t need to pay taxes.

 

[kelvinf]

We are dealing with a group of people who don’t understand that what they are doing is wrong. It is not right to treat them as one would treat a murderer or a child molester. They need to be treated with compassion and love and gentle correction. “They know not what they do.”

What? So gay activists don’t understand what they are doing but baby killers for example understand what they are doing? :whacky:

It’s like saying: “treat Obama with love and compassion for promoting homosexuality for he does not know what he is doing. It is not right to treat him in the case of homosexuality like you would treat him when he promotes abortion.”

Your understanding of love and compassion is warped. Hebrews 12:6 “for whom the Lord loves, he disciplines; he scourges every son he acknowledges.”

Oops, just another temple example.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Yes, let the gay agenda continue to push its way onto all of society. We could point out the bishop who recently told the story of how his secretary was killed by

Justify hate crimes versus “let the gay agenda continue to push its way onto all of society”?

That sounds like a false choice if ever there was one!

kelvinf:

Your interpretation of scripture is flawed. You come across like someone who would refuse to pay taxes because Jesus specificially said that we should render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s. So until Caesar comes back from the dead, you don’t need to pay taxes.

Hi kelvinf, Jesus never said the coins belonged to Caesar. He said they have his face on them, that’s it.

 

[LaSainte]

What? So gay activists don’t understand what they are doing but baby killers for example understand what they are doing? :whacky:

It’s like saying: “treat Obama with love and compassion for promoting homosexuality for he does not know what he is doing. It is not right to treat him in the case of homosexuality like you would treat him when he promotes abortion.”

Your understanding of love and compassion is warped. Hebrews 12:6 “for whom the Lord loves, he disciplines; he scourges every son he acknowledges.”

Oops, just another temple example.

“Baby killers”, as you call them, are actually KILLING a human being. These sins are not even in the same ballpark.

Do you treat people who don’t go to church on Sunday with the same contempt, or is it just the gays? It’s easy to denegrate people who have a vice that you will never even come close to understanding or feeling isn’t it?

You know for a fact that Jesus’ admonition a come from a place of love and compassion, and you yourself said that you have “ZERO” compassion for gays. That says it all.

 

[LaSainte]

Pope admits there is a ‘gay lobby’ at the highest levels of the Vatican

You were saying…

Right. So go to Rome, find the “gay lobby” and drive them out with a whip. Problem solved.

 

[Orogeny]

I didn’t say it wasn’t “as bad”, after all, a person is still dead. What I said was that the PERSON doing the killing is more demented if he just targeted a black man out of the blue to drag to death behind a truck simply because he hates an entire race of people, than the trigger-happy mugger who just wanted a wallet and got flustered. That man obviously has serious mental and emotional problems, is more dangerous to society at large, and should be incarcerated for longer.

Ok, let’s add additional time to sentences for people who commit crimes and also have serious mental and emotional problems. But of course we can only do that if the crime is against a member of one of the groups that are more valuable in the eyes of the law. That same crazy, distressed person killing a straight white male because the victim happened to be wearing a red shirt (in this case, the crazy, distressed person HATES red shirts) would not be subject to the same additional penalties.

Fair?

Peace

Tim

 

[LaSainte]

Ok, let’s add additional time to sentences for people who commit crimes and also have serious mental and emotional problems. But of course we can only do that if the crime is against a member of one of the groups that are more valuable in the eyes of the law. That same crazy, distressed person killing a straight white male because the victim happened to be wearing a red shirt (in this case, the crazy, distressed person HATES red shirts) would not be subject to the same additional penalties.

Fair?

Peace

Tim

Wrong. I didn’t say that. If you noticed, I included women, babies and men of all races in my comment. Malice is malice, but not every murder rises to that level.