Yet another hand holding question

[Matt33]

I really don’t like it. I understnd that we are not supposed to do it but can anyone give logical non emotional ways to handle it. Can someone point me to a quick easy definitive source not to do it?

 

[EasterJoy]

This is just my take on it, but assuming you are not a bishop or a pastor, I think the logical non-emotional way to handle it is to decline to do it yourself, be thankful for your fellow parishioners in spite of whether or not they do it, and be the model of a Christian in every other way. This is because I wouldn’t change parishes over hand-holding. You might, though.

The advice in yesterday’s Gospel, you’ll note, involved bringing the faults of others to their attention exactly three times: once in private, once with a small number of witnesses, and once before the whole church. After that, if they refuse to listen, it is not our concern. Even if it is a pastor or other priest who is not following the dictates of the bishop, I think the procedure is the same: you bring it up privately once, with a few witnesses once, to authority once, and then you wash your hands of it. If the offense is serious, you find a new parish, if they don’t listen. If it is not that serious or if a more suitable parish is not available, you learn to let go, and let God.

I know this way of looking at it bothers a lot of people, and I don’t mean to dictate how anyone else looks at it. I believe, though, that a lot of us rob ourselves of the serenity God intends us to have by obsessing over things we can’t change, especially the faults and sins in others that we can’t change.

 

[Matt33]

This is just my take on it, but assuming you are not a bishop or a pastor, I think the logical non-emotional way to handle it is to decline to do it yourself, be thankful for your fellow parishioners in spite of whether or not they do it, and be the model of a Christian in every other way. This is because I wouldn’t change parishes over hand-holding. You might, though.

The advice in yesterday’s Gospel, you’ll note, involved bringing the faults of others to their attention exactly three times: once in private, once with a small number of witnesses, and once before the whole church. After that, if they refuse to listen, it is not our concern. Even if it is a pastor or other priest who is not following the dictates of the bishop, I think the procedure is the same: you bring it up privately once, with a few witnesses once, to authority once, and then you wash your hands of it. If the offense is serious, you find a new parish, if they don’t listen. If it is not that serious or if a more suitable parish is not available, you learn to let go, and let God.

I know this way of looking at it bothers a lot of people, and I don’t mean to dictate how anyone else looks at it. I believe, though, that a lot of us rob ourselves of the serenity God intends us to have by obsessing over things we can’t change, especially the faults and sins in others that we can’t change.

Ok but should I then just give in and do it? That doesn’t seem right to me and also, I really don’t like it. At our parish it is getting out of control.

 

[Apryl]

I really don’t like it. I understnd that we are not supposed to do it but can anyone give logical non emotional ways to handle it. Can someone point me to a quick easy definitive source not to do it?

Did you mean to ask about a ‘HAND holding question’? Are you talking about hand holding during mass, esp during the Lord’s Prayer?

If that’s the case:

There is not definitive source not to do it, but the important thing is that the GIRM doesn’t say TO do it.

With that in mind, it’s not the preferred thing to do, although no one will walk you outside for doing it.

Personally, I prefer to NOT hold hands. My reason is mostly that since I learned we weren’t supposed to be holding hands I have noticed how distracting the whole hand holding tends to be!

Imagine you are at mass, and the Lord’s Prayer begins, and most of the congregation is holding hands. Then, someone notices a person a few rows back isn’t holding any one’s hand. That well-meaning person is then distracted, so they STOP praying and move to the “loose person”.

Now the one that was fine not holding any one’s hand has been distracted from his prayer to hold this well-meaning person’s hand.

Then you have the circle of people holding hands, but one person hadn’t moved quickly, and you have one person holding one hand with his left, and the other hand is trying to hold on to two people. Distracting.

For me, prayer is supposed to be a quiet time!

You don’t talk to other people, write, check your cell phone, or anything else other than pray. Yes, God knows our every thought, but sometimes, we don’t know our every thought. It’s hard enough to listen to God without distractions.

If there is a congregation where most of the people are holding hands, and a few don’t, what is the problem? Moreso, if there is a congregation where NO ONE is holding hands, what is the problem? We aren’t trying to telegraph our thoughts. This is our prayer to God. We are in communion with one another in as much as we are with the Real Presence.

Holding hands may look nice to most people, but when I’m praying I really don’t care how you look, or how I look. Sometimes, I do feel the need to hold on to someone when I am praying, and I’ve had others feel the same way. But if there is no ‘need’, why do it?

 

[RyanML]

I really don’t like it. I understnd that we are not supposed to do it but can anyone give logical non emotional ways to handle it. Can someone point me to a quick easy definitive source not to do it?

I normally just fold my hands and bow my head and that takes care of that! I did have a lady one time actually grab my hands while they were folded, insisting that I hold her hand

 

[Joe_5859]

I normally just fold my hands and bow my head and that takes care of that! I did have a lady one time actually grab my hands while they were folded, insisting that I hold her hand

LOL, same here! It was quite odd, but thankfully that’s only happened to me the one time. Usually, people don’t get so “feisty.”

Of course, now that I have a small child to hold, it’s even less of a problem.

Apryl is right, though. There is no explicit statement anywhere that prohibits hand-holding. The best you can do is go to the section of the GIRM on Movements and Posture (paragraphs 42-44) and say “Hand-holding is not mentioned”.

You can voice your concern to the pastor (in a nice way, of course). You can fold your hands and keep your head bowed in the hopes that people take the hint. But other than that, there’s not much else you can do.

 

[Schluns]

My husband and I do what RyanML does. We hold our hands in prayer and bow our heads.

This has worked at most parishes that we have visited. We do festivals on the weekends in the summer, so usually spend the entire month of August at other parishes, in summer probably 10-12 different parishes (we usually can’t wait to come “home”)

Occasionally, someone will try to take our hands, and we usually shrug hold out our hands (in a yuck position) and whisper “germs” --I’m not lying, I always sneeze when I get a chill or spend a time siffing prior to the Our Father. That usually puts a quick end to it.

 

[nicolep]

You know, I’ve read about other people having well-intentioned people try to hold their hand on here before. It had never been a problem for me. I fold my hands and bow my head. During daily Mass last week, a women who doesn’t usually go to daily Mass at that time (but I’ve seen there before) reached over and stuck her hand in my face. I shook my head “no” then immediately felt like a heel. It was distracting and frustrating. I mean, I’m going to shake your hand at the kiss of peace in all of a minute anyway.

Someone whom I greatly admire once told me that holding hands is a sign that we’re a community praying together. Uh…doesn’t the fact that we’re all standing in the same room, praying the same words and getting ready to receive the same Holy Communion get that point across well enough?

We even had a guest priest once say, “Now, let’s all join hands for the Lord’s Prayer”. He even had the altar servers walk over and stand in a semi-circle with him around the altar. He usually runs a retreat house in our Archdiocese…the comment was predictable, but not great.

I’m rambling…trying to wrap this up now. Like the OP, there have been times when I’ve been tempted to just join in to save the hassle. However, most people I sit with have become good friends and it usually isn’t an issue.

 

[Joe_5859]

You know, I’ve read about other people having well-intentioned people try to hold their hand on here before. It had never been a problem for me. I fold my hands and bow my head. During daily Mass last week, a women who doesn’t usually go to daily Mass at that time (but I’ve seen there before) reached over and stuck her hand in my face. I shook my head “no” then immediately felt like a heel. It was distracting and frustrating. I mean, I’m going to shake your hand at the kiss of peace in all of a minute anyway.

Someone whom I greatly admire once told me that holding hands is a sign that we’re a community praying together. Uh…doesn’t the fact that we’re all standing in the same room, praying the same words and getting ready to receive the same Holy Communion get that point across well enough?

We even had a guest priest once say, “Now, let’s all join hands for the Lord’s Prayer”. He even had the altar servers walk over and stand in a semi-circle with him around the altar. He usually runs a retreat house in our Archdiocese…the comment was predictable, but not great.

I’m rambling…trying to wrap this up now. Like the OP, there have been times when I’ve been tempted to just join in to save the hassle. However, most people I sit with have become good friends and it usually isn’t an issue.

It can be irritating. I’ve done that before, too, where I refused someone’s hand and then immediately felt like a heel. My philosophy now is that during Mass is not the time for corrective catechesis (unless of course the priest is the one doing the catechizing). The time for catechesis is before or after Mass. In the moment or two before we start praying the Our Father, there is simply not enough time to adequately explain why I don’t think hand-holding is appropriate. And without this explanation, I will likely only hurt someone’s feelings. Thus I prefer to go along and explain afterwards (if appropriate).

If nothing else, it gives me something to offer up.

 

[nicolep]

It can be irritating. I’ve done that before, too, where I refused someone’s hand and then immediately felt like a heel. My philosophy now is that during Mass is not the time for corrective catechesis (unless of course the priest is the one doing the catechizing). The time for catechesis is before or after Mass. In the moment or two before we start praying the Our Father, there is simply not enough time to adequately explain why I don’t think hand-holding is appropriate. And without this explanation, I will likely only hurt someone’s feelings. Thus I prefer to go along and explain afterwards (if appropriate).

If nothing else, it gives me something to offer up.

This is how I plan to react in the future. If someone goes through the trouble of extending their hand to me, I will accept it. Hopefully I don’t have to sit by that person everyday though. Then I would really have to explain my position.

 

[EasterJoy]

We even had a guest priest once say, “Now, let’s all join hands for the Lord’s Prayer”.

Maybe one could just play stupid, and join his right hand to his left!

It can be irritating. I’ve done that before, too, where I refused someone’s hand and then immediately felt like a heel. My philosophy now is that during Mass is not the time for corrective catechesis (unless of course the priest is the one doing the catechizing). The time for catechesis is before or after Mass. In the moment or two before we start praying the Our Father, there is simply not enough time to adequately explain why I don’t think hand-holding is appropriate. And without this explanation, I will likely only hurt someone’s feelings. Thus I prefer to go along and explain afterwards (if appropriate).

If nothing else, it gives me something to offer up.

I think that as long as your facial expression is not hostile, there is nothing wrong with just pleasantly mouthing the words “no thank you” when someone tries to take your hand. After all, they should really not be doing that, when you have chosen to fold your hands instead of extending them. There is no explanation needed. If asked, “I would rather not, thank you” should be sufficient. No explanation beyond that is necessary.

Maybe someone will choose to feel hurt by that, but unless perhaps you’re picking and choosing who you will and will not hold hands with–as in, holding hands with the person on your right, but not the one to your left, or making a big deal of doing it at one Mass, then coldly refusing the next time–the gesture is not inherently rude. (I would try to refuse in such a way that the person won’t be worried that he or she forgot the deodorant that day, though. )

Especially since the abuse scandals hit, it is pretty widely recognized these days that there is a right to avoid any touch we are not comfortable with, no questions asked. If you want to explain further, that is totally up to you.

*This is important stuff! *Predators use the fear a child has of hurting someone’s feeling to force unwanted touching on them. The right to avoid any unnecessary touch that one does not want is very important, then, and it even applies at Mass. If the GIRM doesn’t require it, we may rightly refuse it. Even if we are in the camp that prefers holding hands during the Our Father, we should defend that right.

We should be teaching our kids this stuff.

 

[otjm]

While it has been mentioned that the GIRM does not specifically address holding hands during the Our Father, it might be noted that the GIRM basically doesn’t tell you what to do with your hands at about any point in the Mass.

Archbishop Chaput waded in on this issue some time ago. I would hardly call him a liberal. The point he made was that your posture in regards to your hands is not regulated in the GIRM for the Our Father; if people want to hold hands it is permissable. If they don’t want to hold hands that also is permissable. Both sides should have charity towards the others; which means that if you don’t want to hold hands, no one should require you to do so or force the issue; and if someone does want to hold hands, those who don’t want to should keep their peace and let others do so.

I have a picture that goes back now more than 40 years ago showing people holding hands during the Our Father, which places the issue in context as to how long this has been occuring. Since that time, the GIRM has been re-written twice. Rome has been aware of the issue for well before the first re-write; and Rome has specifically not answered the issue in the two re-writes. As much press and as much ink as has occured since it first began, it should by now be obvious that on a scale of 1 to 10, it is not the 10 that many people who don’t like it try to make it out to be.

The whole issue is fairly easily resolved; if you don’t want to hold hands, and since there is no offical position required, you can hold them in the orans postion (and that has been criticised too); you can hold them palms together fingers aligned; you can hold them palms together, fingers interlaced; or you can stick them in your pockets. None of those positions have been determined by Rome to be inappropriate. If you hold them palms together and someone cricizes you, then you should in kindness explain that you are uncomfotable holding hands with others and then let it go. If they get mad, say a prayer for them.

And the old phrase, “when in Rome, do what the Romans do” has some merit too; Christ told us to pick up our cross and follow Him. Holding someone’s hand during the Our Father can be a suitable penance ( and a suitable cross to bear) for some of our more serious sins. Penance doesn’t have to be imposed by a confessor.

 

[Rickwood]

I really don’t like it. I understnd that we are not supposed to do it but can anyone give logical non emotional ways to handle it. Can someone point me to a quick easy definitive source not to do it?

It’s not prohibited by the Church – it’s left up to local ordinaries.

Ref. youtube.com/watch?v=-YorjE844mc (Begin watching at 2:30)

If you don’t like to hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer then don’t. Ignore others’ attempts at getting you to hold their hands if you don’t want to.

Simple enough.

 

[nicolep]

It’s not prohibited by the Church – it’s left up to local ordinaries.

Ref. youtube.com/watch?v=-YorjE844mc (Begin watching at 2:30)

If you don’t like to hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer then don’t. Ignore others’ attempts at getting you to hold their hands if you don’t want to.

Simple enough.

It would seem simple enough, but it’s an entirely different matter when someone is sticking their hand in my face or literally grabbing at someone else’s hand (as others have mentioned). It’s not always simple to ignore hence the reason for all of the threads. I don’t really care that others do it.

 

[Rickwood]

It would seem simple enough, but it’s an entirely different matter when someone is sticking their hand in my face or literally grabbing at someone else’s hand (as others have mentioned). It’s not always simple to ignore hence the reason for all of the threads. I don’t really care that others do it.

Pretty simple to ignore around these parts…

 

[nicolep]

Pretty simple to ignore around these parts…

It was always simple for me, too. As I mentioned before, it wasn’t an issue until recently. I wish it would be simple to ignore for me still!

 

[Apryl]

I normally just fold my hands and bow my head and that takes care of that! I did have a lady one time actually grab my hands while they were folded, insisting that I hold her hand

If I had a nickel for every time that has happened to me!

And I’ve had people actually FUSS at me while the prayer was going on BECAUSE I hadn’t been holding hands

 

[NeedImprovement]

It happened to me a couple of weeks ago at a neighboring parish - no Monday Masses at ours anymore. I thought about running but it was too late and besides the priest had already asked us to move up near the front. Everybody was holding on to everybody. I’d been working with fenceposts that day and I saw this frail tiny little lady get me in her sights and start across two rows of pews and one aisle just to hold my hand (guess I should’ve been flattered if it had happened anywhere else).

Anyhow, I have a strong grip to begin with, so the whole time that I was giving “lip service” to the Our Father, I was actually concentrating as hard as I could not to squeeze that little hand. I closed my eyes because of the distractions but it didn’t help much. Half-way through, everybody raised their hands up high…then they came back down…then they went back up again (I was hoping it wasn’t going to break out into a square dance at any second ).

After the Our Father, nobody was letting go…they finally did - about 5 seconds before the sign of peace, at which point it started all over again - everybody had to shake hands with everybody else.

I know I helped some souls out of Purgatory at that Mass, but I prefer the **other **ways of doing it. As we’ve witnessed by our fellow posters , folding our hands doesn’t usually work. Too bad it happens at Mass; otherwise I’d have the perfect solution:

Put your hands in your pockets. If someone ends up being bold enough to go in there, you simply yell out " Let go of my wallet.!"

 

[Apryl]

The point he made was that your posture in regards to your hands is not regulated in the GIRM for the Our Father; if people want to hold hands it is permissable. If they don’t want to hold hands that also is permissable. Both sides should have charity towards the others; which means that if you don’t want to hold hands, no one should require you to do so or force the issue; and if someone does want to hold hands, those who don’t want to should keep their peace and let others do so.
.

Hear! Hear!

So, if I’m at mass, and I’m sitting in a pew, ALONE, and I have been at mass before, so I KNOW that the Lord’s Prayer is coming, and I don’t move to the end of the pew towards others, and I fold my hands, and drop my head…

Well, you’ll understand if I’m a bit perturbed, won’t you???

 

[BSHoop96]

Ok but should I then just give in and do it? That doesn’t seem right to me and also, I really don’t like it. At our parish it is getting out of control.

I love my parish but they do hold hands. I would prefer not to and of course I certainly don’t have to. I never initiate but I watch from the corner of my eye and if someone reaches out for my hand I will take it as I would not want my neighbor to feel as if I were rebuffing him/her and I can almost guarantee they would feel that way. Now many will say this is the chicken’s way out but hand-holding at the Our Father is not something I will make an issue out of at the expense of hurting someone unnecessarily.