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WhatItSays
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That’s an interesting question, I’m guessing it would be found in Polycarp, Tatian or Papias. I will look into it and get back.
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Anna_Scott
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Yet, Christ did not given such an assurance to His Apostles. He said the one who endures to the end will be saved (Matthew Chapter 10).I just wanted to address this as well. I do not subscribe to TULIP Calvinism, so I would agree with you about Monergistic predetermination as being in error (though obviously God knows all). I am arguing for the predestination spoken of by Paul to the believers who have received the Spirit of God and are thus afforded an assurance of their end.
It is interesting that those who claim only the predestined elect will be saved, are quite certain they are one of the elect. To make such an assumption is to judge one’s own soul. Is there any man, apart from Christ (who is fully God and fully man,) who holds the authority to judge the soul? Do you believe you hold the authority to judge the soul?
M
mgteich
Guest
I look forward to seeing where the ECF’s taught that we could not throw away the free gift of salvation.
I would note that for many of us, salvation is composed of justification, sanctification and glorification. I was saved; I am being saved; I hope that I will be saved.
OSAS for Calvin is nowhere near as harsh as is being discussed, although hyper-Calvinism is a huge impediment for so many in their spiritual walk. Luther and Calvin are not well represented by many of their 21st century followers, Zwingli either for that matter.
To answer the question of the OP, pastorally OSAS is meant to give us freedom. As adopted children of God, and having been the gift of faith and the indwelling Holy Spirit, we no longer need to worry about whether God will throw us out of the family. What father would do that? Having accepted our father’s Love, then we can live our Christian life, being converted/sanctified each day of our lives. We are family.
As an aside, I do not see our Father’s Plan focusing on individual commitments. Rather, I see us as the family of God, living in community. I believe that this is the teaching of Scripture and of the Early Church.
I would note that for many of us, salvation is composed of justification, sanctification and glorification. I was saved; I am being saved; I hope that I will be saved.
OSAS for Calvin is nowhere near as harsh as is being discussed, although hyper-Calvinism is a huge impediment for so many in their spiritual walk. Luther and Calvin are not well represented by many of their 21st century followers, Zwingli either for that matter.
To answer the question of the OP, pastorally OSAS is meant to give us freedom. As adopted children of God, and having been the gift of faith and the indwelling Holy Spirit, we no longer need to worry about whether God will throw us out of the family. What father would do that? Having accepted our father’s Love, then we can live our Christian life, being converted/sanctified each day of our lives. We are family.
As an aside, I do not see our Father’s Plan focusing on individual commitments. Rather, I see us as the family of God, living in community. I believe that this is the teaching of Scripture and of the Early Church.
That’s an interesting question, I’m guessing it would be found in Polycarp, Tatian or Papias. I will look into it and get back.
W
WhatItSays
Guest
Papias used the term “saved” in reference to believers and the expectation of going to heaven. He has a view of various levels of Christian attainment, but he seems to grant that believers are destined for heaven.
"As the presbyters say, then(3) those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city;(4) for everywhere the Saviour will be seen, according as they shall be worthy who see Him. But that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold; for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second class will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the city; and that on this account the Lord said, “In my Father’s house are many mansions:”(5) for all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling-place, even as His word says, that a share is given to all by the Father,(6) according as each one is or shall be worthy. And this is the couch(7) in which they shall recline who feast, being invited to the wedding. The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, say that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved, and that they advance through steps of this nature; and that, moreover, they ascend through the Spirit to the Son, and through the Son to the Father; and that in due time the Son will yield up His work to the Father, even as it is said by the apostle, “For He must reign till He hath put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”
Not perfectly clear, but similar to what an evangelical would state in the use of the word “saved.”
Tatian addressing the Greeks:
"The soul is not in itself immortal, O Greeks, but mortal. Yet it is possible for it not to die. If, indeed, it knows not the truth, it dies, and is dissolved with the body, but rises again at last at the end of the world with the body, receiving death by punishment in immortality. But, again, if it acquires the knowledge of God, it dies not, although for a time it be dissolved. In itself it is darkness, and there is nothing luminous in it. And this is the meaning of the saying, “The darkness comprehendeth not the light.” For the soul does not preserve the spirit, but is preserved by it, and the light comprehends the darkness. "
Tatian affirms that the soul that acquires the knowledge of God does not die and is preserved by the spirit.
Polycarp affirms salvation by grace through faith, but he certainly seems to tie our salvation into our walking in the ways of the Lord and persevering.
I Clement opens:
“By reason of the sudden and repeated calamities and reverses which
are befalling us, brethren, we consider that we have been somewhat
tardy in giving heed to the matters of dispute that have arisen among
you, dearly beloved, and to the detestable and unholy sedition, so
alien and strange to the elect of God, which a few headstrong and
self-willed persons have kindled to such a pitch of madness that your
name, once revered and renowned and lovely in the sight of all men,
hath been greatly reviled.”
Clement claims that the elect of God can be known.
Clement also demonstrates an argument for sola fide in chapter 32:
"They all therefore were glorified and magnified, not through
themselves or their own works or the righteous doing which they
wrought, but through His will.
And so we, having been called through His will in Christ Jesus, **are
not justified through ourselves or through our own wisdom or
understanding or piety or works which we wrought in holiness of
heart, but through faith, **whereby the Almighty God justified all men
that have been from the beginning; to whom be the glory for ever and
ever. Amen.
What then must we do, brethren? Must we idly abstain from doing
good, and forsake love? May the Master never allow this to befall us
at least; but let us hasten with instancy and zeal to accomplish
every good work."
Sounds similar to the argument of Paul in Romans for faith alone followed by good works.
"As the presbyters say, then(3) those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city;(4) for everywhere the Saviour will be seen, according as they shall be worthy who see Him. But that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold; for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second class will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the city; and that on this account the Lord said, “In my Father’s house are many mansions:”(5) for all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling-place, even as His word says, that a share is given to all by the Father,(6) according as each one is or shall be worthy. And this is the couch(7) in which they shall recline who feast, being invited to the wedding. The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, say that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved, and that they advance through steps of this nature; and that, moreover, they ascend through the Spirit to the Son, and through the Son to the Father; and that in due time the Son will yield up His work to the Father, even as it is said by the apostle, “For He must reign till He hath put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”
Not perfectly clear, but similar to what an evangelical would state in the use of the word “saved.”
Tatian addressing the Greeks:
"The soul is not in itself immortal, O Greeks, but mortal. Yet it is possible for it not to die. If, indeed, it knows not the truth, it dies, and is dissolved with the body, but rises again at last at the end of the world with the body, receiving death by punishment in immortality. But, again, if it acquires the knowledge of God, it dies not, although for a time it be dissolved. In itself it is darkness, and there is nothing luminous in it. And this is the meaning of the saying, “The darkness comprehendeth not the light.” For the soul does not preserve the spirit, but is preserved by it, and the light comprehends the darkness. "
Tatian affirms that the soul that acquires the knowledge of God does not die and is preserved by the spirit.
Polycarp affirms salvation by grace through faith, but he certainly seems to tie our salvation into our walking in the ways of the Lord and persevering.
I Clement opens:
“By reason of the sudden and repeated calamities and reverses which
are befalling us, brethren, we consider that we have been somewhat
tardy in giving heed to the matters of dispute that have arisen among
you, dearly beloved, and to the detestable and unholy sedition, so
alien and strange to the elect of God, which a few headstrong and
self-willed persons have kindled to such a pitch of madness that your
name, once revered and renowned and lovely in the sight of all men,
hath been greatly reviled.”
Clement claims that the elect of God can be known.
Clement also demonstrates an argument for sola fide in chapter 32:
"They all therefore were glorified and magnified, not through
themselves or their own works or the righteous doing which they
wrought, but through His will.
And so we, having been called through His will in Christ Jesus, **are
not justified through ourselves or through our own wisdom or
understanding or piety or works which we wrought in holiness of
heart, but through faith, **whereby the Almighty God justified all men
that have been from the beginning; to whom be the glory for ever and
ever. Amen.
What then must we do, brethren? Must we idly abstain from doing
good, and forsake love? May the Master never allow this to befall us
at least; but let us hasten with instancy and zeal to accomplish
every good work."
Sounds similar to the argument of Paul in Romans for faith alone followed by good works.
A
Adamski
Guest
My experience has been the farther you get away from Catholic teachings the more a person loves sin more the Christ. This is very true in the osas as I have seen in the modernist non denominational heracy
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