Yet another Question about Marriage!

[rolltidefan]

Okay…AGAIN as most here know, I am a protestant married to a Catholic. My question is if you have a Catholic that marries a divorced protestant and outside of the Catholic church, but the Catholic decides that he/she wants to “get” right with the church, but the protestant sees that annulement and all the other paperwork is just difficult and does not want to go through with it…What advice would you give the Catholic??

Thanks for all your repsonses

 

[marci]

Okay…AGAIN as most here know, I am a protestant married to a Catholic. My question is if you have a Catholic that marries a divorced protestant and outside of the Catholic church, but the Catholic decides that he/she wants to “get” right with the church, but the protestant sees that annulement and all the other paperwork is just difficult and does not want to go through with it…What advice would you give the Catholic??

Thanks for all your repsonses

Be obedient to the Church.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Okay…AGAIN as most here know, I am a protestant married to a Catholic. My question is if you have a Catholic that marries a divorced protestant and outside of the Catholic church, but the Catholic decides that he/she wants to “get” right with the church, but the protestant sees that annulement and all the other paperwork is just difficult and does not want to go through with it…What advice would you give the Catholic??

Thanks for all your repsonses

**
I would advise the Catholic to talk to his/her spouse and tell them how important it is to him/her. As spouses we are supposed to be putting the needs of the other before our own. Unless our spouse is asking us to do something dangerous or immoral we should always try to do as they ask.

I would be really hurt if I asked my husband to do something important to me and he brushed it off with “I don’t want to…it’s too much work”.**

 

[DebChris]

How important is your marriage to you?
If you refuse this to your spouse there is the possibility that resentment will block the love you have for one another. That’s just not worth it. Spouses need to honor one another. Allowing the “work” will strengthen your own relationship and remove (at least some if not all) questions of doubt. Look forward to the acceptance and blessing of your marriage by the Church, another way to express your love for one another.

 

[Seatuck]

Unfortunately the Catholic has no choice there needs to be separation of some kind. Whether it is just out of the same bedroom or out of the house.Those details should be discussed with ones priest. Sometimes in the case of children that might be harmed it would be better to stay in the house. The Catholic cannot continue to be responsible for participating in sin. It would be a supreme act of love to stop leading the spouse with the prior marriage in sin.
The spouse who is refusing to do the paperwork needs to come to terms with why he/she is unwilling to do this sacrificial act. That is what we are called to do in marriage and this spouse is unwilling.

 

[aggiecatholic05]

Be obedient to the Church.

yep. good advice for any situation.

 

[rolltidefan]

Thank you all so far for the advice. I am who this post is talking about. I am the protestant and my husband is the Catholic. However, he has not asked me to sign anything, nor have I refused. I was just wondering if it ever come up, what would be the response, because I seriously don’t know what I would do. I feel in some ways that he should have let me know these things were required up front by his church before going into a marriage and thus I entered myself not knowing what the church fully taught. Also though my problem would be with my ex-spouse anyway. It was not a great divorce and anything probably to make my life heck he would do and so for anyone from the Catholic church to contact him (which my ex thinks this church is just full of it anyway) would be just wonderful for him because I think he would tell them where to stick it. I think something like an annulement would be terrible to have to go through with him. Almost like things have died down and then just dragging it up. That is just how I am looking at not. Not to say that is how it is.

I am also a little confused at how people here can talk about ohh the Catholic spouse just needs to leave and divorce or live as brother/sister, especially in a case where the Catholic did not tell the protestant all the rules. Does that not seem a little unfair to you all here?? Does that not seem like, ohhh I am not going to do this, but now I am, so you either do it or you are gonna be the one pay for it?? That does not settle well in my spirit.

Again, thank you all for your opinions. They have been of great help so far.

 

[Seatuck]

Thank you all so far for the advice. I am who this post is talking about. I am the protestant and my husband is the Catholic. However, he has not asked me to sign anything, nor have I refused. I was just wondering if it ever come up, what would be the response, because I seriously don’t know what I would do. I feel in some ways that he should have let me know these things were required up front by his church before going into a marriage and thus I entered myself not knowing what the church fully taught. Also though my problem would be with my ex-spouse anyway. It was not a great divorce and anything probably to make my life heck he would do and so for anyone from the Catholic church to contact him (which my ex thinks this church is just full of it anyway) would be just wonderful for him because I think he would tell them where to stick it. I think something like an annulement would be terrible to have to go through with him. Almost like things have died down and then just dragging it up. That is just how I am looking at not. Not to say that is how it is.

I am also a little confused at how people here can talk about ohh the Catholic spouse just needs to leave and divorce or live as brother/sister, especially in a case where the Catholic did not tell the protestant all the rules. Does that not seem a little unfair to you all here?? Does that not seem like, ohhh I am not going to do this, but now I am, so you either do it or you are gonna be the one pay for it?? That does not settle well in my spirit.

Again, thank you all for your opinions. They have been of great help so far.

I agree with you that it does seem unfair. The wages of sin always seem unfair. But at closer examination they are just. If the Catholic comes to his senses and wants to make things right then he has do that. It would be a matter of violating his conscience to not do it. He led another person astray. That’s a very serious sin. It would be far worse to realize he has done this and continued. Unfortunately you are caught in the middle because of your history as a Protestant. If protestants hadn’t dropped the teaching on marriage we’d be on the same page. I do sympathize, I really do. I know it is difficult.

 

[DebChris]

Thank you all so far for the advice. I am who this post is talking about. I am the protestant and my husband is the Catholic. However, he has not asked me to sign anything, nor have I refused. I was just wondering if it ever come up, what would be the response, because I seriously don’t know what I would do. I feel in some ways that he should have let me know these things were required up front by his church before going into a marriage and thus I entered myself not knowing what the church fully taught. Also though my problem would be with my ex-spouse anyway. It was not a great divorce and anything probably to make my life heck he would do and so for anyone from the Catholic church to contact him (which my ex thinks this church is just full of it anyway) would be just wonderful for him because I think he would tell them where to stick it. I think something like an annulement would be terrible to have to go through with him. Almost like things have died down and then just dragging it up. That is just how I am looking at not. Not to say that is how it is.

I am also a little confused at how people here can talk about ohh the Catholic spouse just needs to leave and divorce or live as brother/sister, especially in a case where the Catholic did not tell the protestant all the rules. Does that not seem a little unfair to you all here?? Does that not seem like, ohhh I am not going to do this, but now I am, so you either do it or you are gonna be the one pay for it?? That does not settle well in my spirit.

Again, thank you all for your opinions. They have been of great help so far.

I agree with you that it does seem unfair. The wages of sin always seem unfair. But at closer examination they are just. If the Catholic comes to his senses and wants to make things right then he has do that. It would be a matter of violating his conscience to not do it. He led another person astray. That’s a very serious sin. It would be far worse to realize he has done this and continued. Unfortunately you are caught in the middle because of your history as a Protestant. If protestants hadn’t dropped the teaching on marriage we’d be on the same page. I do sympathize, I really do. I know it is difficult.

As scripture says, to act against conscience is to sin against God.
The Catholic Church places great emphasis on the words of Jesus concerning marriage. Remarriage is adultery.
What annulment does is look at the original relationship. It is seen as a means of healing that which was not meant to be.
Some of us continue to live singly after the legal dissolution of our marriage because we do strongly believe in its validity, that we did receive the Sacrament. I recently read that 85% of divorced Catholics never seek an annulment and of those who do, half (7% of the total) are granted. You do need to know that seeking an annulment is not a sure thing. Are you willing to take that chance for the sake of your current relationship?
While the divorced Catholic continues living in an “adulterous” relationship, he cannot receive the Sacraments. This can be extremely painful and can become another source of difficulty within your current relationship.
No, it will not be easy but is marriage ever “easy”?

 

[BlestOne]

I have to defend your husband here. It is possible he did not know that his marriage to a Protestant who was previously divorced would need an annulment. He may not have even understood the basis of a sacramental marriage. But nonetheless, for him to be considered validly married, you would need to get a decree of nullity from your previous marriage. Many people fear the reaction of their ex spouse in the process, but it has been my experience that the tribunal contacts them by letter and asks them to fill out a questionnaire and about 90% of the time they blow it off or if they do fill it out, they present themselves as angry and bitter, which can only go in your favor. As for living as brother and sister… that I am afraid is the proper thing to do while getting this all straightened out. Because we believe that marriage is sacramental and holy and forever, we must be free to marry to validly enter into a marriage. To have relations with a person in this situation is to be adulterous because you are still validly married to your ex in the eyes of the church. The tribunal procedure is often not a difficult thing for those who were not Catholic at the time of the marriage. But to become Catholic or to marry a Catholic, this is very important.

 

[rick43235]

My question is if you have a Catholic that marries a divorced protestant and outside of the Catholic church, but the Catholic decides that he/she wants to “get” right with the church, but the protestant sees that annulement and all the other paperwork is just difficult and does not want to go through with it…What advice would you give the Catholic??

I am in a similar situation. I was raised in the Lutheran church, married and divorced many years ago, and recently married a Catholic (but not in the Church - for reasons totally unrelated to religion). I knew that we would have to have our marriage regularized by the Church, but I was under the impression that it was a simple matter, and my wife never told me any different. I had never been exposed to the concept of a church annulment until after taking several months of RCIA classes. After talking to our priest, I was surprised at how involved the annulment process is. (And how, until the annulment process was completed, I couldn’t be accepted into the Church. Thanks a bunch, Father, for keeping this a secret until only a month before Easter.) Like many non-Catholics I suppose, I am put off not so much by the paperwork, but by the idea that the Catholic Church would have to rule on the validity of my non-Catholic marriage. But, after stewing about this for several months, I have come to terms with the fact that if my wife is to be allowed to return to the sacraments, I am going to have to hold my nose and just do it. Perhaps with time, you will also come to the realization that, while a pain in the rear, it is an act of love for your Catholic spouse.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

I am also a little confused at how people here can talk about ohh the Catholic spouse just needs to leave and divorce or live as brother/sister, especially in a case where the Catholic did not tell the protestant all the rules. Does that not seem a little unfair to you all here?? Does that not seem like, ohhh I am not going to do this, but now I am, so you either do it or you are gonna be the one pay for it?? That does not settle well in my spirit.

Again, thank you all for your opinions. They have been of great help so far.

**
In the Catholic view, marriage is forever. So, your previous marriage is valid in the eyes of the Church (until proven otherwise). So, like others have pointed out, you and your current “husband” are committing adultery since you are “still married” to another man.

I also want to second the opinion that your husband probably did not know about, or didn’t realize the importance of, all of this prior marriage stuff. If he did and he took his faith seriously you would not be married today (without rectifying the situation *and ***getting married in the Church).

Look at it from his point of view. Well, not necessarily his since you said he has not asked this of you…yet…but

He is with the woman he loves. He finds out that he is not in a valid marriage and is sinning by being with you. He also knows that he is leading you to sin as well (whether you believe it or not, it matters that he does). It must be an incredibly painful spot to be in. To know that he is allowing both of your souls to be in danger of hell.

And then to know (or suspect) that you don’t want to go through the trouble to make it right since you don’t think it is wrong would leave him between a rock and a hard place. No matter what, he suffers.

When it comes down to a choice between eternal souls and a bit of inconvenience I would hope that any spouse in this situation would do whatever they could to do what is so important to the other.

 

[rick43235]

am also a little confused at how people here can talk about ohh the Catholic spouse just needs to leave and divorce or live as brother/sister, especially in a case where the Catholic did not tell the protestant all the rules. ***Does that not seem a little unfair to you all here?? *** Does that not seem like, ohhh I am not going to do this, but now I am, so you either do it or you are gonna be the one pay for it?? That does not settle well in my spirit.

Unfair?? It’s WAY beyond unfair. To marry someone while leading them to believe one thing, and then changing the “rules” after the fact…that’s just wrong. While I can understand and appreciate that one might experience a renewal of faith and that you would want to make things right with the Church, I feel that it’s your duty to make the transition as painless as possible for the spouse who had the rules changed on him. Telling him that you have to separate does not impress me as the way to go.

 

[whatevergirl]

I have to defend your husband here. It is possible he did not know that his marriage to a Protestant who was previously divorced would need an annulment. He may not have even understood the basis of a sacramental marriage. But nonetheless, for him to be considered validly married, you would need to get a decree of nullity from your previous marriage. Many people fear the reaction of their ex spouse in the process, but it has been my experience that the tribunal contacts them by letter and asks them to fill out a questionnaire and about 90% of the time they blow it off or if they do fill it out, they present themselves as angry and bitter, which can only go in your favor. As for living as brother and sister… that I am afraid is the proper thing to do while getting this all straightened out. Because we believe that marriage is sacramental and holy and forever, we must be free to marry to validly enter into a marriage. To have relations with a person in this situation is to be adulterous because you are still validly married to your ex in the eyes of the church. The tribunal procedure is often not a difficult thing for those who were not Catholic at the time of the marriage. But to become Catholic or to marry a Catholic, this is very important.

As always, I agree with Blest.

You know rolltidefan…sometimes, when we face things…and they unravel, it’s really to bring us peace in getting things right. So, while a lot of angst might come from it right now, in the end, it will all be worth it. I think it’s really great that you are giving this some thought. Prayers are with you and your husband, that everything will work out. Lean on Christ–He will guide you both through anything. God bless.

 

[rolltidefan]

well obviously I am going with rick43235. It hardly seems to me right, regardless of the rules that one can just all of the sudden change their mind in the middle of the ballgame.

As far as him knowing, he is a cradle Catholic and went to Catholic school for years and he is now 37 and you seriously don’t think he knew what was required of him for marriage? or marrying a divorced person? I have only been coming to this site for about 6 months and that was not hard to figure out, much less if I had been raised this my whole life. Anyway, hard to buy that one.

Also…lets say the shoe was on the other foot. What if you have a Catholic that marries a protestant that was not practicing and then all of the sudden they change “in the middle of the game”, would it make that right? I think most Catholics would say that was deceitful.

I understand what you all think about my marriage. That was given when I asked the question. I knew you all would think adultry. Of coruse I don’t think that, but that is a whole other argument here. However, I also don’t agree with a church that gives away so many annulements. Kind of seems like they do this because there are so many divorced people in the church and if they didn’t they would have a great falling away because most people are not going to stay in a church where they cannot participate in the full benefit of the church. Of course, I look at my relationship with God a little differently that most Catholics. I was divorced when I was sinner and I then came back to my church and made things right. Yeah, I got “saved”. It was a moment for me obviously. A wonderful moment. I then at that moment knew and still know that God wiped away any of my sins. He didn’t pick and choose which ones to wipe away. He wiped them all away on the day he died for my sins. I personally think if we are going to say divorce is wrong, I think it should be wrong all the way around. I think no man can annul a marriage. Obviously, in my eyes the bible says let NO MAN puts asunder when he is talkign about marriage. However, again, not all of us are divorced because we wanted to be and for me those things are forgiven and is not a sin just becuase I don’t have a paper by man that says God never recognized my first marriage.

I am just saying what I believe at this point. You guys have been so awesome at answering my questions and I so appreciate it, as I want to know what my husband might one day do or what to expect. I know there is a certain amount of, in my opinion, Catholic guilt which is what scares me about that this might one day become reality and he may want me to sign or go for things that I don’t believe in. However, I do believe in the man I am married to now and want to continue to be married to him. I love him so much and couldn’t stand to lose him. I don’t think anybody that hasn’t been through this realizes how frustrating it is. It is so nerve wrecking. I think my problem is that I have been coming on here so long and I have become obsessed with what is said and views that I don’t see as my own. So I am not sure if so many Catholics believe this strongly and some don’t. Kind of like being a democrate or republican, I guess that is the way I would describe it. I don’t know. Just know that I am confused and very frustrated.

Living as a brother and sister in this home is not an option, as I see my marriage as not a sin. I guess I need to just chill about it and read the scripture where it talks about God has not given us a spirit of fear. I need to quit fearing the unknown, because as of yet, this has not even been an issue for my husband, which is the one who is Catholic. Anyway, just my ramblings in my head now.

Thanks so much. I do appreciate each and every comment, even if I don’t particulary like or agree with what you are saying.

 

[whatevergirl]

Thank you all so far for the advice. I am who this post is talking about. I am the protestant and my husband is the Catholic. However, he has not asked me to sign anything, nor have I refused. I was just wondering if it ever come up, what would be the response, because I seriously don’t know what I would do. I feel in some ways that he should have let me know these things were required up front by his church before going into a marriage and thus I entered myself not knowing what the church fully taught. Also though my problem would be with my ex-spouse anyway. It was not a great divorce and anything probably to make my life heck he would do and so for anyone from the Catholic church to contact him (which my ex thinks this church is just full of it anyway) would be just wonderful for him because I think he would tell them where to stick it. I think something like an annulement would be terrible to have to go through with him. Almost like things have died down and then just dragging it up. That is just how I am looking at not. Not to say that is how it is.

**
I am also a little confused at how people here can talk about ohh the Catholic spouse just needs to leave and divorce or live as brother/sister, especially in a case where the Catholic did not tell the protestant all the rules. Does that not seem a little unfair to you all here?? Does that not seem like, ohhh I am not going to do this, but now I am, so you either do it or you are gonna be the one pay for it?? That does not settle well in my spirit. **

Again, thank you all for your opinions. They have been of great help so far.

In response to the bold, secularly speaking, it can seem unfair, but sometimes, we make things harder than they have to be. In your husband’s defense…he sounds like he could have truly been unknowing of the Church’s stance on your situation. I was very ignorant for years…on marital sexuality according to Church teaching…until very recently, for example. So, it’s entirely possible that your husband just didn’t realize this, but now that this is coming to light…just pray about it, seek out priestly advice (that is always very good and objective), before making your next step. Again, I pray that things go as smoothly for you both as possible. If your husband has become enlightened to this now, then perhaps look at it all as a teachable moment for you both. I would also encourage you to maybe speak with a priest by yourself, to gain some insight into the Church’s teachings on various issues…maybe make a standing appt monthly or something. It might help you become more comfortable with things, and will unite you more to your husband, as you grow to understand more.

I will keep you both in my prayers.

 

[kristacecilia]

…

As far as him knowing, he is a cradle Catholic and went to Catholic school for years and he is now 37 and you seriously don’t think he knew what was required of him for marriage? or marrying a divorced person? I have only been coming to this site for about 6 months and that was not hard to figure out, much less if I had been raised this my whole life. Anyway, hard to buy that one.

…

I understand what you all think about my marriage. That was given when I asked the question. I knew you all would think adultry. Of coruse I don’t think that, but that is a whole other argument here. However, I also don’t agree with a church that gives away so many annulements. Kind of seems like they do this because there are so many divorced people in the church and if they didn’t they would have a great falling away because most people are not going to stay in a church where they cannot participate in the full benefit of the church. Of course, I look at my relationship with God a little differently that most Catholics. I was divorced when I was sinner and I then came back to my church and made things right. Yeah, I got “saved”. It was a moment for me obviously. A wonderful moment. I then at that moment knew and still know that God wiped away any of my sins. He didn’t pick and choose which ones to wipe away. He wiped them all away on the day he died for my sins. I personally think if we are going to say divorce is wrong, I think it should be wrong all the way around. I think no man can annul a marriage. Obviously, in my eyes the bible says let NO MAN puts asunder when he is talkign about marriage. However, again, not all of us are divorced because we wanted to be and for me those things are forgiven and is not a sin just becuase I don’t have a paper by man that says God never recognized my first marriage.

…

Living as a brother and sister in this home is not an option, as I see my marriage as not a sin. I guess I need to just chill about it and read the scripture where it talks about God has not given us a spirit of fear. I need to quit fearing the unknown, because as of yet, this has not even been an issue for my husband, which is the one who is Catholic. Anyway, just my ramblings in my head now.

Thanks so much. I do appreciate each and every comment, even if I don’t particulary like or agree with what you are saying.

You’d be surprised- I was raised in the Church, too, and until I actively began participating in my faith and sought out Her teachings, I never knew what the Church taught on marriage or marital sexuality beyond “no sex before marriage”.

I would venture to say that most Catholics in the Western world have very little idea what the Church actually teaches and why.

I also think you have the wrong idea of what an “annulment” is. It’s not a “Church Divorce” like most people- Catholics included- think it is. It is a declaration that, at the time of your previous marriage, no marriage actually took place. There was some defect of intent, form, consent, etc, that prevented you from marrying your exhusband at the time of your wedding. If the Church issues you a Declaration of Nullity (the proper name for an “annulment”) it states that your “marriage” to your exhusband never, in fact, was.

You seem to understand the hypocricy of a Church that would hand out “annulments” (Church divorces) and proclaims Christ’s words during the nuptial Mass- “What God has joined, let no man put assunder”.

In ACTUAL Catholic teaching, there is no such thing as divorce. If you actually marry someone with full consent, proper form, etc, etc, you are married until the day one of you dies. No tribunal can declare it null regardless if you would ever get civilly divorced or not.

That’s another thing- there is an important distinction to be made between civil law and God’s (the Church’s) law. Countries can make laws for whatever they want. That doesn’t make them God’s law. A good example of this is abortion on demand. The United States (and canada) both have legally allowed abortion on demand. Does that make it moral? Of course not. Does that make it God’s law? Of course not.

The same goes with divorce. Just because a country makes it possible for two people to divorce does not mean that they are not still married in God’s eyes.

Marriage is for life. The end. If you are married in God’s eyes then you are always married to that person until one of you dies, even if you are granted a legal divorce. If you are given a declaration of nulity from a tribunal it means that you were *never *married to that person.

Many people find it very hard, but very cleansing, to go through the process of receiving a declaration because it proves that whatever warped, messed up “marriage” they thought they had that ended in a divorce was actually never a marriage to begin with.

I write all this, of course, in Christian love. Hopefully you will understand why the Church teaches what it does. God wants us to be in happy, Holy marriage and He, in his infinite wisdom, has given the Church the responsibility to make sure that takes place. That’s why we have all these “regulations”. If everyone was left to decide based on their own “feelings” what they thought was True we would have religious anarchy.

 

[Triciacat]

I have to defend your husband here. It is possible he did not know that his marriage to a Protestant who was previously divorced would need an annulment.

Would not the priest have known this and advised accordingly?

 

[Phemie]

Would not the priest have known this and advised accordingly?

You’d think, wouldn’t you, but my best friend’s husband had previously been married and nobody even picked up on it in the prenuptial investigation. It’s only when she was in a university class that the topic of annulments came up and she asked the prof/priest to repeat what he’d said about 5 times. Then she went home to talk to her priest who sent her home and told her not to worry.

In the meantime, unbeknownst to anyone, including her fiance, his ex had petitioned for a decree of nullity and it arrived about a month before their scheduled wedding – which nobody had suggested they delay.

 

[eichenb2]

Hello,
Please allow me to thank you for a very informative site. I am not a Christian or Catholic. I have,
however, been doing alot of research about the Catholic faith. After hearing a question on EWTN radio,
I do have a few questions.
1)If a husband & wife join the Church (after being baptized as Lutherans), is it necessary to have the
marriage convalidated?
2)If the husband was divorced prior to the marriage, is an annulment necessary?
3)In the likelihood that an annulment is not granted, do the husband and wide need to be celibate
until the divorced spouse dies? I do not mean any offense, but this seems absurd.
4)How likely is it that nullity will be granted on the grounds of Canon 1101, sec2 (Willful exclusion
of marital permanence)? Specifically, let us say that one or both parties entered the marriage with
the implicit understanding that they can divorce if it does not work out.
5)How long do you think nullity could take given the scenario in question 5?
6) Would celibacy be necessary in the above scenario?
7)Are there any publish statistics on nullities granted in the Archdiocese of Detroit?