Yoga and Christianity

[InJesusItrust]

I just read up on Father Malachi Martin. What he describes is true, but I witnessed a protestant pastor cast out a demon. The first thing you try to do is get its name. Whatever it says, don’t believe it. Then you have to keep trying to call it out in the name of Jesus. This whole process takes hours and the demon begs for mercy.

I just find it remarkable that a protestant could do it, especially one who is anti-Marian (he cut out someones rosary) and called communion a symbol. Then again:

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 7:21-23[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Izdaari]

I just read up on Father Malachi Martin. What he describes is true, but I witnessed a protestant pastor cast out a demon. The first thing you try to do is get its name. Whatever it says, don’t believe it. Then you have to keep trying to call it out in the name of Jesus. This whole process takes hours and the demon begs for mercy.

I just find it remarkable that a protestant could do it, especially one who is anti-Marian (he cut out someones rosary) and called communion a symbol. Then again:

[bibledrb]Matthew 7:21-23[/bibledrb]

Any Christian should be able to cast out demons. But granted that it takes some knowledge, faith and patience.

I don’t think the distinction spoken of in Matthew 7:21-23 is between Catholics and Protestants, but between those who do “get” what Jesus was all about and those who don’t, those who are merely cultural, familial and “religious” followers of His, and those who actually do their best to be His disciples… and some of the former and the latter can no doubt be found in all Christian churches.

 

[InJesusItrust]

It seems to say that even though you can cast out demons or perform miracles, that is no guarantee that you know Jesus. Love of neighbor is important and not signs.

I don’t think cultural Christians would try to cast out demons.

I don’t see how dishonoring the Lord’s mother is honoring the Lord. He cut out the rosary and threw it in the trash, because it was “idolatry”. He emphasized the ressurected Lord, not the crucified Lord. Is this typical of charismatics?

I actually held back laughter because at the beginning everyone tried to speak in tongues and it was very strange for me. I had no idea what to expect. This was when I was still deciding if the Catholic Church was true.

 

[Izdaari]

It seems to say that even though you can cast out demons or perform miracles, that is no guarantee that you know Jesus. Love of neighbor is important and not signs.

I don’t think cultural Christians would try to cast out demons.

I don’t see how dishonoring the Lord’s mother is honoring the Lord.

Agreed on all that. However, I don’t think not believing in the distinctive Catholic Marian devotions is dishonoring Mary. I don’t practice them myself, but I think that as the *theotokos *she deserves sainthood and the greatest respect.

 

[Mystic3]

I’m working towards taking it up for concentration purposes, as I have some kind of weird learning trouble and can’t focus all the time. I’m hoping that Yoga will help me to be able to be focus and retetain. My friend who has introduced me to it, says that it has helped him a bunch in learning and concentrating.

Yoga is helpful in learning and concentrating. You have to find the right exercises for you personally. There are a lot of different exercises in Yoga. For me the best was to go for a walk daily and to meditate regularly.

The exercises of HATHA YOGA–the branch of Yoga which involves the physical forms/exercises–are very good if begun gently, preferably with an experienced teacher. For Christians, a Yogic teacher should not ONLY be aware of physical safety in teaching the postures. Butalso–IF A CHRISTIAN OPTS TO STUDY YOGA–they should seek an instructor who is genuinely Christian in their approach. Not merely appropriatiing superficial Christian elements, but genuinely aware of the diferences between Eastern and Western worldviews.

It is good to have a christian yoga teacher. But if not, you can pray to Jesus. Then Jesus will lead you in your yoga exercises. Yoga is a body exercise. Most important is what spiritual role model you have. Here is the difference between Hinduistic and Christian Yoga.

Ive heard Christians say all the time that Yoga and Buddhist meditation can lead to demonic possesion, which begs the question…

That is really nonsense. I do Yoga and Buddhist meditation for more than 24 years, and I never got problems with demons. You only come in contact with your own psychic tendencies. If you go deeper with Yoga, you have to learn to deal clever with your spirit. It is good to have psychological knowledge. And is also good to anchor your mind in positive christian principles. I got a training in Yoga and in psychotherapy. That was very helpfull for me.

As far as stretching exercises, I see no harm, although not being a practitioner I have no idea where the line at which spirituality comes in to play is.

Most important is what spiritual role model you have. Here is the difference between Hinduistic and Christian Yoga.

As far I know it is common for committed Hindus to go to exorcisms and undo “black magic”. Of course it is not openly talked about because it is embarrassing to talk about with the secularly educated who “know better” but have no experience. When abandoning Hinduism I was oppressed by evil. My theory is that demons don’t care what false religion you follow, but if you try to go near Christ they terrorize you. Stay away from idols and the occult. I am in India. It is because westerners abstain from these things and generally already follow Christ that demons do not oppress them. If demons oppressed them they would know that the devil exists.

Exorcism is a problem from the Middle Ages. This has led many people to mental health problems. At the present time, most people think scientifically. There is no capacity for evil spirits and they disappear. Evil spirits appear when a man sees too many horror movies on TV or obsolete religious ideas follows. Black magic is a problem of the past. Who believes in black magic, produces demons in his own spirit.

I do believe demons are real and may need to be exorcised. If I’m not mistaken the Catholic Church believes this too, and trains some priests in exorcism. It may not be common, but just in case.

Exorcism is a problem in the Catholic Church. Some priests believe in it and practise it. Sometimes it is helpful, but often people are psychologically destroyed. The way of modern Catholicism is to send these people to psychotherapists.

 

[InJesusItrust]

I am sorry, you are plain wrong. Demons do exist and only someone without firsthand experience can claim they don’t. It is not “in your head” but this is a silly rationalization by people who wrongly consider themselves wise. Demons are free to act in such countries because people will not seek Jesus but an idol to save them. On the other hand if the west knew that evil spirits exist they would seek Jesus. Often times a mental illness is an illness, but if a case is a genuine spiritual attack it may be mistaken for mental illness.

 

[robwar]

If a Christian is looking for meditation, they would be best off seeking one that came out of a Christian, not a Hindu or Buddhist, tradition. Of course so much of Christianity is vapid and void of its own traditions to draw on these days, so people have no choice. Those who are lucky enough to come from traditions with a meditative history (Catholicism, Orthodoxy) would be smart to stick with them.

As far as stretching exercises, I see no harm, although not being a practitioner I have no idea where the line at which spirituality comes in to play is.

It is a misnomer that it is just stretching exercises. Those exercises are an integral part of it and if interested in exercises, there are many other things available to do than yoga. While expose yourself.

 

[robwar]

Yoga is helpful in learning and concentrating. You have to find the right exercises for you personally. There are a lot of different exercises in Yoga. For me the best was to go for a walk daily and to meditate regularly.

It is good to have a christian yoga teacher. But if not, you can pray to Jesus. Then Jesus will lead you in your yoga exercises. Yoga is a body exercise. Most important is what spiritual role model you have. Here is the difference between Hinduistic and Christian Yoga.

That is really nonsense. I do Yoga and Buddhist meditation for more than 24 years, and I never got problems with demons. You only come in contact with your own psychic tendencies. If you go deeper with Yoga, you have to learn to deal clever with your spirit. It is good to have psychological knowledge. And is also good to anchor your mind in positive christian principles. I got a training in Yoga and in psychotherapy. That was very helpfull for me.

Most important is what spiritual role model you have. Here is the difference between Hinduistic and Christian Yoga.

Exorcism is a problem from the Middle Ages. This has led many people to mental health problems. At the present time, most people think scientifically. There is no capacity for evil spirits and they disappear. Evil spirits appear when a man sees too many horror movies on TV or obsolete religious ideas follows. Black magic is a problem of the past. Who believes in black magic, produces demons in his own spirit.

Exorcism is a problem in the Catholic Church. Some priests believe in it and practise it. Sometimes it is helpful, but often people are psychologically destroyed. The way of modern Catholicism is to send these people to psychotherapists.

Exorcism has been done by Catholic Church since the beginning with Jesus. it is not an invention of the middle ages to solve mental illness. A Catholic priest is specifically designated by the Bishop to become an exorcist for the diocese. He is specifically approve to do this and every diocese in the world as a priest that performs this in accordance with the Catholic rite of exorcism. You are misinformed that “some priests do this or believe in it or practice it.”

 

[ValPal]

It is a misnomer that it is just stretching exercises. Those exercises are an integral part of it and if interested in exercises, there are many other things available to do than yoga. While expose yourself.

Once again, that is true only if you wish it to be. Simply putting one’s hands together in prayer position has meaning in Hinduism, Buddhism, and other religions. But no Catholic is going to argue that you shouldn’t put your hands in prayer position because of Yoga or anything else. It is the intent you associate it with it that matters. If you associate worshiping Hindu Gods with exercises, and believe you will be influenced by them, then yes, you will be affected.

 

[Hunter24]

Better that than a direct attack. Again, I emphasize that my whole household felt the presence of evil and all these things only stopped when an exorcism was done. Also if you have seen Christians cast demons out of people you would know that they exist, but because you live in the west where these things are not common you cannot believe.

In reality, demons do not do things like you see in horror movies.

Oh i know fully well malevolent entitys exist, i have also had encounters with them, however i hold a different view of the spirit world than Christians. Christians believe all spirits and elementals are fallen angles and inherantly evil. I believe spirits run the full range of personalitys from helpful to malevolent, with most being benign. Also, Christians love to associate demons with other religions and claim that people who try to leave are attacked, something i totally disagree with. If what you experienced was actualy related to some spirit, i dont believe it had anything to do with your religion.

 

[InJesusItrust]

I have other reasons for believing it was because I was drawing to Christ and not something else, but if I say them it would just offend people who do not believe that the devil fools those who practice worship of spirits outside of Christianity. At any rate you would try to rationalize away all my reasons for believing as I do because it does not gel with your spiritual views. I remember how offended I was that Christians believe that most of the world is terribly deceived.

Again, converts sometimes do get harassed when going to Christ, and India is not like the west. People are not fools for being so superstitious because sometimes demons do harass people, and not everyone is an illiterate fool. I personally think it has to do with idolatry and I have experienced something uncomfortable related to wearing threads blessed in Hindu temples. Two things not to do is idolatry and the occult/spiritism.

 

[Hunter24]

I have other reasons for believing it was because I was drawing to Christ and not something else, but if I say them it would just offend people who do not believe that the devil fools those who practice worship of spirits outside of Christianity. At any rate you would try to rationalize away all my reasons for believing as I do because it does not gel with your spiritual views. I remember how offended I was that Christians believe that most of the world is terribly deceived.

Again, converts sometimes do get harassed when going to Christ, and India is not like the west. People are not fools for being so superstitious because sometimes demons do harass people, and not everyone is an illiterate fool. I personally think it has to do with idolatry and I have experienced something uncomfortable related to wearing threads blessed in Hindu temples. Two things not to do is idolatry and the occult/spiritism.

And you would rationalize away all of mine, thats how it it works, if something dosnt fit a persons world view they either A) rationalize or B) change their view. you would do the same thing if i was to explain something that wouldn’t fit with the Christian world view.

again i totaly beleave there are malevolent entitys that do harass people, but i dont beleave they care what religion you are, as evidenced by the fact that many religions preform exorcisms.

im not telling you to believe what i do, by all means you are free to think whatever you want about those incidents, i was just expressing my opinion.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Do we not sometimes become too concerned about dangerous spirits when the reality is that we alone are resposnible for our own behaviors and the most important dangers are Lust, Greed, Gluttony, Envy, Anger, Pride, and Sloth?

 

[Ion]

Again, converts sometimes do get harassed when going to Christ, and India is not like the west. People are not fools for being so superstitious because sometimes demons do harass people, and not everyone is an illiterate fool. I personally think it has to do with idolatry and I have experienced something uncomfortable related to wearing threads blessed in Hindu temples. Two things not to do is idolatry and the occult/spiritism.

They are very intelligent, have thousand of years of experience deceiving peoples, and probably they have others ways you can’t even imagine. The only benign spirits are the one with no power because of your guardian angel. Do not fight a defensife fight but an offensife one, doing the will of our Lord in any circumstance,

 

[Hunter24]

They are very intelligent, have thousand of years of experience deceiving peoples, and probably they have others ways you can’t even imagine. The only benign spirits are the one with no power because of your guardian angel. Do not fight a defensife fight but an offensife one, doing the will of our Lord in any circumstance,

I dont agree with most of this comment, but he is correct that the best strategy is to take the offensive. Sitting back and doing nothing at best makes no progress, and at worst allows the spirit to become more attached.

 

[chataranga]

Greetings folks,
In response to post #27.Why expose yourself? Did you ever do a pushup? In the high pushup position you were in plank pose or chataranga-in the low pushup position you were in chataranga dandasan. Ever see a picture of the pope (any pope) prostrated before and altar? He was in crocodile pose. At a football game (American football) when the ball is kicked for an extra point and it is made the guys with the black and white stripped shirts raise their arms to come into mountain pose. Swimmers before the race(in a pool) are in forward folding pose. As for using the postures for praying-christians and muslims already do this anyway. Kneeling etc. is praying or part of praying as I understand.
Why expose yourself? What would your liturgy be like without the priests’ in their fancy garments or the use of bells or incense? Do some research to see where these customs/traditions came from- I believe each of these came from non-christian sources originally. If I’ve come off as being gruff I apologize and ask forgiveness for all those who have read these words. Blessings-stay safe.

 

[Mystic3]

Demons do exist and only someone without firsthand experience can claim they don’t. Often times a mental illness is an illness, but if a case is a genuine spiritual attack it may be mistaken for mental illness.

I believe that demons exist, but we are protected from Jesus Christ. Our only problem are our negative inner tendencies. What we see as demons are normally negative thoughts, created by ourselves. Exorcism is the wrong practice to overcome these demons.

Do we not sometimes become too concerned about dangerous spirits when the reality is that we alone are resposnible for our own behaviors and the most important dangers are Lust, Greed, Gluttony, Envy, Anger, Pride, and Sloth?

That is exactly the way it is. Normally our demons are anger, greed and aggression. They have to be overcome by psychotherapeutical methods and working on the mind. There is a good phrase in spirituality: “Don’t care about demons and the demons don’t care about you.” Most demons in the religions are caused by the religions themselves. They teach their people the fear of demons and the demons are created in the mind.

Do some research to see where these customs/traditions came from- I believe each of these came from non-christian sources originally.

Many gestures and customs of Christianity come from other religions. That’s no problem. The religions learn from each other and take the good from other religions. That is precisely why Christians can make yoga. It is only important that they preserve their role models and spiritual background system. Here is the difference between Hinduistic and Christian yoga. The essence of Christianity is the dual path of love to God and to all beings (the neighbor). A Christian Yoga is based on these two principles.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

That is exactly the way it is. Normally our demons are anger, greed and aggression. They have to be overcome by psychotherapeutical methods and working on the mind. There is a good phrase in spirituality: “Don’t care about demons and the demons don’t care about you.” Most demons in the religions are caused by the religions themselves. They teach their people the fear of demons and the demons are created in the mind.

In an article often sited to discredit Centering Prayer a priest states the following:

“My hypothesis is that it is Satan’s strategy, in all these things, to strip away the physiological and psychological forces that, in our fallen state, are a fail-safe protection for the human spirit. (This is a possible interpretation of Paul’s words in 2 Thessalonians 2:6-10 about the lawless one and the force that restrains him.) Thus, he can hope to capture the spirit of man worldwide and establish a kingdom of darkness.”

I say it is absurd to think that physiological and psychological forces in our fallen state are a fail-safe protection for the human spirit. It is through physiological and psychological forces that we encounter our pathology. Rather than protect the human spirit they have the potential to inflict it. They in fact are the primary cause of most of our suffering.

 

[InJesusItrust]

If devils are only our own thoughts, why does exorcism work where psychology fails?

 

[Michael_Mayo]

If devils are only our own thoughts, why does exorcism work where psychology fails?

They tempt our thought process. When it comes to posession or oppression I do not think many people at all know what exactly is going on.

Catholics often refer to the **Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on some aspects of Christian Meditation **– but then skip over that it acknowledges:

That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.

And yet dangers can be anywhere. The letter begins wiht errors in the early Church (cf. 1 Jn 4:3; 1 Tim 1:3-7 and 4:3-4) and “subsequently, two fundamental deviations came to be identified: Pseudognosticism and Messalianism”

Eastern forms do not have the monopoly on dangers. Any time there is the risk of Christ being subordinate to any method, experience or other goal there is danger.

Danger to believe that out own efforts bring our salvation; danger to believe that our faith eliminates any need for effort on our part.

Danger that we stive to extingish our very self through some immersion in the indeterminate abyss; danger also that we place God within the box of our own favorite limiting images. Danger of ego extinction & danger of ego inflation.

Danger that we make our feelings the sole criteria of spiritual progress; danger that we think we have it all figured out intellectually or have the elite knowledge.

Danger to think we can control God’s action by any technique or prayer.

Danger of believing one is God; danger of failing to acknowledge God in others.

Yes, there are many, many dangers everywhere the human heart can wander. The devil wants us to sin. S/He needs our free will for that.