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jerry_joseph
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Gary_Sheldrake
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I think we run the risk of being arrogant and short sighted to assume that other people’s faiths are dangerous. Especially when so much of the narrative of our mythology could seem to them to be borrowed from theirs.I know many people who started practicing yoga with intentions of “good excercise”…and then got sucked into the “spriitual” hinduistic nature of the practice. It was subtle and incremental. The evil one is very crafty.
Dangerous stuff…stay away from it…in any form.
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Mickey
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I did not say that other people’s faith was dangerous. I said that the practice of yoga was dangerous.
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Mickey
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I believe that the exercises present a danger. The yoga poses have been developed to be inextricably connected to the yogic “spirituality.”
One can find good stretching exercises that are not related to yoga.
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Gary_Sheldrake
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If done with the right intent, the practice of yoga is part of someone else’s faith. By what reasoning have you separated the practice of a faith from a faith?
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Gary_Sheldrake
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If you think the practices present a danger, then you should be able to describe the process by which the danger arises. So, that said, how do the poses involved in yoga translate into danger? For instance, warrior pose causes demons to issue forth from the vents in the ceiling, or the downward dog pose causes your bible to catch fire. Explain what happens in such terms if you would please. Otherwise it could be said that we are simply speculating out of superstition and fear.
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Mickey
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You have free will to do all the warrior downward pony dog poses that you wish. I am not going to convince you otherwise.
But for those who are unsure of the dangers of this subtle deception…I recommend reading a book called, “The Gurus, the Young Man, and Elder Paisios.”
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Gary_Sheldrake
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Actually, I am totally open to your ideas if you could explain them. That’s how we learn. But we don’t learn from someone making a statement about the benefits or dangers of something without explaining the basis on which they make the statement. I am inviting you to tell me why you think it’s dangerous, that’s all. For instance, if you said that drinking water with mercury in it is dangerous, you could say that studies have shown that mercury poisons build up in the blood stream and over the long term causes organ damage to things like kidneys and the liver. This is how we explain the dangers of mercury poisoning. We don’t just say mercury is dangerous to people who are drinking it or have it in their fillings if we expect to change their minds or their behavior. It’s always reasonable to expect that someone can tell you why you have drawn a particular conclusion.
Most books have some central points that can be gleaned from them. Having read the book, perhaps you could share what the basic talking points are. Tell me what points you took away from the book. You are just as qualified as anyone else to tell me what you think, and why you think that way, don’t you agree? Tell me what you think and we can discuss it. From there, perhaps we can draw some reasonable conclusions. You don’t have to be an author or have any special credentials to tell me what you think and the reasoning behind it. Your opinion is a valid as anyone else’s, so please accept my invitation to tell me about it if you would. Why is the practice of yoga poses dangerous to Catholics? What are the particulars?
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aspirant
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This is correct. Idolatry is not something visible to the eye. It is an act of the will, not of the knees. An episode from the life of the prophet Elisha shows that a man faithful to the Lord can bow even before pagan idols without committing idolatry:
2Kings 5:9-19:
If Naaman can bow in the house of Rimmon without committing idolatry, you can also bend and stretch without committing idolatry. Idolatry is an act of the will, not the knees.
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Michael_Mayo
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That is a surprising statement for one who claims to be Catholic. I take it then you also believe in Zeus, Apollo, Odin and the thousands of gods of many religions.
How do you reconcile that with the first statement of our creed, “I believe in one God the Father almighty.”
But then, of course, if you are going to quote the founder of Archetypal psychology you must realize that he is talking in psychological terms of archetypes just as Jung did, myths.
As I said before, If you believe these gods exist inside your body then you yourself accept as reality the eastern gods mythology more than I do and by fearing this discipline (yoga) you acknowledge thier power over you.
I do not believe any anthropomorphic deities exist inside my body. And you certainly have not proven thier existence. They are mythical symbols, nothing more, and I do not let fear of such myth dictate my discipline.
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Michael_Mayo
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Such as?
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Pleroma
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I never claimed myself to be a Catholic. I don’t believe in Catholic Christians I believe in Valentinian Christians its because Catholic Christians are at psychic level and Valentinian Christians are at the pneumatic level. Catholic Christians were called as lower Christians and they are not aware of the higher teachings of St. Paul and no one speaks about these higher teachings in any of their conferences.
Do you know that Christianity has 33 Aeons?
Jung had a dialogue with the Gods and they are real and literally exist. Its not symbolic.
They are not mythical symbols they literally exist and one can even have a dialogue with them and since Yoga works it is the cosmogony of Catholicism which is wrong.
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aspirant
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FWIW, I was guessing this (whether fairly or not) on the basis of the name “Pleroma.”
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Pleroma
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As someone in the beginning of this thread said there are meditation techniques with in traditional Catholicism and Christianity itself and if people had followed that then obviously there isn’t any problem.
Someone said “Christians should practice techniques coming out of Christianity and not from Hinduism, Buddhism or any of the other pagan religions.”
This is my view too. There were Christian mystics in the past, St. Teresa of Avila is one good example and she was so powerful that she almost shattered her whole room so much that nuns came running to see what happened to her. Did St. Teresa had to adopt any of the eastern pagan practices of course not.
Christ has no body but yours,
No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
Yours are the eyes with which he looks
Compassion on this world,
Yours are the feet with which he walks to do good,
Yours are the hands, with which he blesses all the world.
Yours are the hands, yours are the feet,
Yours are the eyes, you are his body.
Christ has no body now but yours,
No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
Yours are the eyes with which he looks
compassion on this world.
Christ has no body now on earth but yours.
— Teresa of Ávila
That’s why she has earned so much respect in my eyes and I don’t respect people who practise yoga and at the same time call themselves Catholic.
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Michael_Mayo
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Sorry, my mistake.
But isn’t Valentinian Christianity pretty much a gnostic monism? Not very far from the yoga view except with different names?
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Gary_Sheldrake
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However, we were talking about the stretching aspects of yoga which is Hatha. Were weren’t insofar as I’m aware talking about meditation, which is Raja.
But I’m not looking to employ powerful techniques, or shatter my room, or make nuns run. I am simply a man who stretches in the morning, and my understanding was that you were advising me that this was dangerous. I am asking you to tell me in your own words why you think it’s dangerous. I am interested in hearing what you think, not what some people you have read think, but what you took away from what you have read, or what you may have watched, and for you to convey to me what you think of all of this, and your reasoning behind it. Your life is about what you think, and what you feel, about conclusions you’ve drawn, and about your experiences. And with this in mind, I simply want to know why you think it’s dangerous.
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Mickey
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Read the book and/or discuss the situation with your confessor. That is the only advice I have for you.
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Gary_Sheldrake
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Mickey, why won’t you tell me in your own words what you found compelling on the book? Was it so hard to comprehend and describe? If you can’t understand it enough to relate what was in it in a conversation with me, then what chance do I and my confessor have of understanding it? Let’s talk about it.
I am actually not looking for your advice. I am only asking for you to substantiate some statements made by you and perhaps a few others on this forum, wherein you have made the claim that certain stretching exercises are counter indicated for a proper spiritual life, and that furthermore such things are harmful… If you speak out against something or intimate that it’s bad in some way, then you should expect inquiring people to ask you some questions about what you claim. I am not challenging you in any way. I am inviting you to use my time, and this space on this forum to explain what you think and what you mean. Just post one idea from the book that especially resonates with you, and you and I can discuss it. I am inviting you to change my mind.
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Lost_Wanderer
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Gnosticism is also a heresy.
Like these guys?
Sorry but literal is a stretch. Certain beings may claim themselves to be the gods of old but these are facades. If all these gods were truly real in the literal sense, why do places like Mt. Olympus look like this:
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And not like this?
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