Yoga for Catholics?

[shocktrooper]

I love yoga threads on these forums, especially on a Monday morning, when I’m in need of a good laugh.

Anyone who believes that taking a yoga class at their local gym, or health club is leading them down a spiritual path toward eternal damnation is living inside a delusional world they have somehow been feared into by people with some serious issues of their own.

Honestly. Stop, just stop, LOL. Yoga is fine. It’s a great workout,and does not have to include any of the spiritual aspects. It has even helped my wife recover from a debilitating surgery that left her very physically week. She’s not worshiping any foreign idols, gods or demons. Really folks, get a grip. When most ask about yoga, they are most likely not going to a local yoga guru type place where all aspects of it are practiced in full. Heck, there are a NUMBER of CATHOLIC parishes in my diocese that offer classes in it!

But would it then be considered “yoga” if you strip the spiritual part out of it and just use it for exorcise? It would be like taking the Eucharistic Celebration out of the Mass and still calling it a Mass. Maybe it should just be called physical therapy, exorcise or stretching. Just a thought.

Pax Christi.

 

[Labarum]

The dangers of Yoga and its incompatibility with Christianity

Here is a definition from a yoga guru website “Many do not understand the concept of yoga. Some think it is a religion. Some think it is physical exercise for health and some think it is a psychological system. All this is based on a misunderstanding of yoga. Yoga is simply a relationship. The word yoga comes from the biblical word, yoke which in turn originated from the root word in Sanskrit jugit. Both mean joining together or to unite. Yoga is the union of an individual consciousness with infinite consciousness. A yogi is a person who leans completely on the Supreme Consciousness, God, until they have merged their individual self with the Infinite Self. This is all….”

Bottom line - Christian beware!

 

[Farsight001]

I started doing yoga recently and it has been of great benefit to my health. I’m more flexible, in better shape, have more energy, and I don’t even struggle to eat healthily as much either.

The first thing I noticed about the basic yoga that I was learning was that I had done most of these things before. Most of the basic positions are literally identical to stretches I did before soccer practice in high school and rugby practice in college. They are very normal stretches that I see other teams doing all the time in news spots on tv and such. I have no doubt in my mind that many many people vehemently opposed to yoga, including some of the people posting here, are inadvertently doing yoga positions every day.

Which brings me to my ultimate point - symbols (and in this case positions) only have the power that you let them have. A swastika represents Nazis instead of Buddhists or native American spirituality only if you let it. A knife is only a weapon instead of a tool if you use it as one. And yoga positions only have religious and spiritual power if you give it to them. What are anti-Catholics always saying to us? That we worship idols. And our standard response is that they’re just statues. They only become idols if we give them that power. It is the same thing here.

 

[Pitcharan]

…I have spoken to knowledgeable …, however, who told me all that has nothing to do with them.

I wish you could also speak to other knowledgable ones who decided that they will have nothing to do with such a religion and gladly embraced Christ, the fullness of truth

 

[rotlex]

But would it then be considered “yoga” if you strip the spiritual part out of it and just use it for exorcise? It would be like taking the Eucharistic Celebration out of the Mass and still calling it a Mass. Maybe it should just be called physical therapy, exorcise or stretching. Just a thought.

Pax Christi.

I agree with that actually. And that was kind of my point. (sorry if I sounded sarcastic or rude during my earlier post).

I really believe that most “yoga” classes, including the ones my wife takes, are simply exercise classes, just like any aerobics, dance or zumba classes are.

I think what disturbs me about the way yoga is looked at on these forums, is that as soon as anyone sees the word, they immediately think of it as a form of worship. Sorry, the “yoga” classes given in my own diocese, are nothing more than beneficial physical exercises; no different than any other form of activity one can engage in.

 

[Labarum]

rotlex, it’s not about the word it’s about what those exercises are, what they represent, how they were founded and the spiritual dimension that is opened up when practicing them (whether you think they are innocent exercises or not).

To find out what something is you go to the root of it. You find it’s origin and what purpose does it serve. For yoga, yes it is an exercise but it is more than that and the spiritual cannot be separated from it (whether you can separate it in your mind or not).

If you look into the origins, definitions and purpose of yoga you will understand.

My view of yoga was the same as yours rotlex until I did my own research and talked to some knowledgeable people in the faith (young, university educated, missionary priests).

You even have top Exorcists warning about the dangers of yoga. They are the experts, they see the dangers.

 

[Warrior1979]

rotlex, it’s not about the word it’s about what those exercises are, what they represent, how they were founded and the spiritual dimension that is opened up when practicing them (whether you think they are innocent exercises or not).

To find out what something is you go to the root of it. You find it’s origin and what purpose does it serve. For yoga, yes it is an exercise but it is more than that and the spiritual cannot be separated from it (whether you can separate it in your mind or not).

If you look into the origins, definitions and purpose of yoga you will understand.

My view of yoga was the same as yours rotlex until I did my own research and talked to some knowledgeable people in the faith (young, university educated, missionary priests).

You even have top Exorcists warning about the dangers of yoga. They are the experts, they see the dangers.

I’m curious as to what criteria is used to where something becomes acceptable and not acceptable. Using your reasoning, basically one cannot practice any martial art that originated in the east. Some of the arts have are directly influenced by Indian practices, such as Kung Fu and Kempo, while others are indirectly affected.

The philosophy is complementary to the culture, they don’t view it as separate. Using your reasoning, one cannot eat even eat Asian cuisine, since it is directly influenced by this philosophy. Ever have sweet and sour chicken?

 

[Farsight001]

rotlex, it’s not about the word it’s about what those exercises are, what they represent, how they were founded and the spiritual dimension that is opened up when practicing them (whether you think they are innocent exercises or not).

this is the EXACT reasoning protestants use when accusing us of worshiping the saints. They believe that actions cannot be separated from the spirituality behind it, and so equate our use of terms like “queen of heaven” with pagan worship. They say that if pagans did it or said it, we never can. It is spurious and faulty logic.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

this is the EXACT reasoning protestants use when accusing us of worshiping the saints. They believe that actions cannot be separated from the spirituality behind it, and so equate our use of terms like “queen of heaven” with pagan worship. They say that if pagans did it or said it, we never can. It is spurious and faulty logic.

I agree 100%

 

[rotlex]

rotlex, it’s not about the word it’s about what those exercises are, what they represent, how they were founded and the spiritual dimension that is opened up when practicing them (whether you think they are innocent exercises or not).

To find out what something is you go to the root of it. You find it’s origin and what purpose does it serve. For yoga, yes it is an exercise but it is more than that and the spiritual cannot be separated from it (whether you can separate it in your mind or not).

If you look into the origins, definitions and purpose of yoga you will understand.

My view of yoga was the same as yours rotlex until I did my own research and talked to some knowledgeable people in the faith (young, university educated, missionary priests).

You even have top Exorcists warning about the dangers of yoga. They are the experts, they see the dangers.

I fully understand your view on this, however, I must agree to disagree. I’m sorry, but bodily movements\exercises, are nothing more than that. The physical aspect of yoga is no different than the physical aspects of weight lifting, aerobics, martial arts etc. Anyone thinking otherwise, and I am not directing this at you, but rather those that are “educated” in these area, is a bit paranoid me thinks.

 

[phoooiee]

rotlex, it’s not about the word it’s about what those exercises are, what they represent, how they were founded and the spiritual dimension that is opened up when practicing them (whether you think they are innocent exercises or not).

To find out what something is you go to the root of it. You find it’s origin and what purpose does it serve. For yoga, yes it is an exercise but it is more than that and the spiritual cannot be separated from it (whether you can separate it in your mind or not).

If you look into the origins, definitions and purpose of yoga you will understand.

My view of yoga was the same as yours rotlex until I did my own research and talked to some knowledgeable people in the faith (young, university educated, missionary priests).

You even have top Exorcists warning about the dangers of yoga. They are the experts, they see the dangers.

Some yoga poses include:

touching your toes
lowering down exactly like you would to do a pushup
lunging forward like runners do right before a race
doing a full backbend like gymnasts do
going down on all fours
arching and lowering your back on all fours like the physical therapist told me to do when I hurt my back

I find it difficult to believe that anyone on these forums has managed to go through life without ever performing any of these yoga moves which some are suggesting might be dangerous.

 

[Labarum]

Some yoga poses include:

touching your toes
lowering down exactly like you would to do a pushup
lunging forward like runners do right before a race
doing a full backbend like gymnasts do
going down on all fours
arching and lowering your back on all fours like the physical therapist told me to do when I hurt my back

I find it difficult to believe that anyone on these forums has managed to go through life without ever performing any of these yoga moves which some are suggesting might be dangerous.

Yes, those poses individually are not dangerous but the complete yoga worship/exercise is.

Again, go to the origin of the practice, look at the definition and purpose of yoga and you will understand. People need to educate themselves about yoga and it’s roots which are inseparable (even though some people in the West think they can).

I’ll give you another illustration: If you go to someone who doesn’t know about the Eucharist and you tell him that it is “not a wafer cracker that it is the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ and because it is if you eat it unworthily you will be eating judgement and death”. That person will say “how can that be? Eating a wafer never hurt anyone.” It’s the same thing.

You have Pitcharan on this thread who is from India and would probably know more about Hinduism and Yoga than us warns about the dangers. You even have the Vatican top Exorcist - a member of the cloth and expert in demonic matters - warning you of the dangers and many others.

Please educate yourself - learn the origin and purpose of yoga and you will see.

 

[Warrior1979]

Yes, those poses individually are not dangerous but the complete yoga worship/exercise is.

Again, go to the origin of the practice, look at the definition and purpose of yoga and you will understand.

I made the similar point about Asian cuisine. It is the embodiment of five-element theory (five flavors), as well as yin/yang. Remember that next time you get take-out.

People need to educate themselves about yoga and it’s roots which are inseparable (even though some people in the West think they can).

The exercises naturally have their value, as similar exercises exist in different cultures. It’s what people ascribe to them that is the issue. If one wants to see Hindu religious theory in those exercises, they will most certainly see them.

 

[Pitcharan]

…You have Pitcharan on this thread who is from India and would probably know more about Hinduism and Yoga than us warns about the dangers. You even have the Vatican top Exorcist - a member of the cloth and expert in demonic matters - warning you of the dangers and many others.

Please educate yourself - learn the origin and purpose of yoga and you will see.

Add this too, as part of the education: some of the greatest exponents of Yoga in India, were also the most infamous in terms of morality and ethics and never known for spirituality. Though there is no dearth of tall claims that Yoga offfers cure for every disease, modern medicine is the most popular even among yoga practioners. No Yogi has demonstrated even ability to diagnose an illness. They only offer advice after an allopath has diagnosed the disease. But incredible and unverifiable stories about “clearing of artery blocks”, “dissolution of kidney stones”, “rejuvenation of liver” are quite common. But it is also a well known fact that leading Yoga teachers consult modern medical doctors for their health as well the health of their family members.

 

[Farsight001]

Yes, those poses individually are not dangerous but the complete yoga worship/exercise is.

Again, go to the origin of the practice, look at the definition and purpose of yoga and you will understand. People need to educate themselves about yoga and it’s roots which are inseparable (even though some people in the West think they can).

I’ll give you another illustration: If you go to someone who doesn’t know about the Eucharist and you tell him that it is “not a wafer cracker that it is the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ and because it is if you eat it unworthily you will be eating judgement and death”. That person will say “how can that be? Eating a wafer never hurt anyone.” It’s the same thing.

You have Pitcharan on this thread who is from India and would probably know more about Hinduism and Yoga than us warns about the dangers. You even have the Vatican top Exorcist - a member of the cloth and expert in demonic matters - warning you of the dangers and many others.

Please educate yourself - learn the origin and purpose of yoga and you will see.

Are you choosing to ignore people’s response to your faulty logic, or did you just not notice?

 

[Labarum]

Are you choosing to ignore people’s response to your faulty logic, or did you just not notice?

I have been answering responses.

Perhaps I am not aware of the faulty logic you refer. Please enlighten.

 

[Farsight001]

I have been answering responses.

Perhaps I am not aware of the faulty logic you refer. Please enlighten.

Well, for one, you didn’t even acknowledge the existence of posts 27-30.

 

[Labarum]

Well, for one, you didn’t even acknowledge the existence of posts 27-30.

I cannot answer every post directly (this is time consuming and difficult since I am one of 2 people vouching against yoga). This also doesn’t point out what in particular is my faulty logic.

The main argument is that they are just exercises and that the spiritual can be separated from the physical when it comes to yoga. This I address by saying that you can’t separate it no more than you can separate eating the Eucharist from eating a wafer (whether you think you can separate the two or not - you can’t).

Because of this mentality of being able to separate the two dimensions (spiritual and physical) I am being questioned on the individual exercises in isolation (i.e. touching your toes). As said before that in isolation they are not dangerous but practiced using yoga is since the spiritual cannot be separated from the physical when practicing yoga.

While stating this fact I then encourage people to learn the origin, purpose and meaning of yoga, which no one cares to acknowledge - it is always deflected or ignored (how can you really know something to talk about it if you do not know those 3 key things). In addition, I provide warnings from exorcists and other priests about the dangers of yoga - again no one specifically addresses those.

 

[phoooiee]

I cannot answer every post directly (this is time consuming and difficult since I am one of 2 people vouching against yoga). This also doesn’t point out what in particular is my faulty logic.

The main argument is that they are just exercises and that the spiritual can be separated from the physical when it comes to yoga. This I address by saying that you can’t separate it no more than you can separate eating the Eucharist from eating a wafer (whether you think you can separate the two or not - you can’t).

Because of this mentality of being able to separate the two dimensions (spiritual and physical) I am being questioned on the individual exercises in isolation (i.e. touching your toes). As said before that in isolation they are not dangerous but practiced using yoga is since the spiritual cannot be separated from the physical when practicing yoga.

While stating this fact I then encourage people to learn the origin, purpose and meaning of yoga, which no one cares to acknowledge - it is always deflected or ignored (how can you really know something to talk about it if you do not know those 3 key things). In addition, I provide warnings from exorcists and other priests about the dangers of yoga - again no one specifically addresses those.

You can, however, find a warning from at least a few priests on many things that are actually rather extreme when compared to what Church teaching actually is. Every priest I have talked to has reassured me that yoga is fine.

I cannot imagine that if yoga were so dangerous as you are saying, that the Vatican would allow Catholic parishes and schools to provide yoga classes.

Either the people who are warning against yoga are being extremists or the Church has completely failed us in this regard.

Also, it is not that the Church has not considered the relationship of Christian prayer to the prayer methods of other religion, if yoga is in this case to be considered so inseparable from prayer as to be considered a form of prayer.

Here are some excerpts from the Church document “LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON SOME ASPECTS OF CHRISTIAN MEDITATION”:

“A consideration of these truths together brings the wonderful discovery that all the aspirations which the prayer of other religions expresses are fulfilled in the reality of Christianity beyond all measure, without the personal self or the nature of a creature being dissolved or disappearing into the sea of the Absolute.”

"The majority of the “great religions” which have sought union with God in prayer have also pointed out ways to achieve it. Just as "the Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions,"18 neither should these ways be rejected out of hand simply because they are not Christian. On the contrary, one can take from them what is useful so long as the Christian conception of prayer, its logic and requirements are never obscured. "

"Some physical exercises automatically produce a feeling of quiet and relaxation, pleasing sensations, perhaps even phenomena of light and of warmth, which resemble spiritual well-being. To take such feelings for the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit would be a totally erroneous way of conceiving the spiritual life. Giving them a symbolic significance typical of the mystical experience, when the moral condition of the person concerned does not correspond to such an experience, would represent a kind of mental schizophrenia which could also lead to psychic disturbance and, at times, to moral deviations.

That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures"

This document is by Joseph Ratzinger.
It is quite clear, and it is not saying what you are saying. Yoga is fine as long as it does not begin to replace authentic Christian prayer.

I have more faith in the man who is now Pope than in the opinions of people on this forum.

 

[Labarum]

phoooiee, I agree with you that you can find a priest that is more extreme than Church teaching but the same is true about finding a priest that is too lax.

I cannot imagine that if yoga were so dangerous as you are saying, that the Vatican would allow Catholic parishes and schools to provide yoga classes.

Can you show me where the Vatican explicitly states that it allows yoga in parishes and schools?

I have read documents that have said the fusion of eastern mediation with Christian prayer is ok but it also states that it should be evaluated and scrutinized regularly. It doesn’t explicitly say yoga is ok, at best it is ok but proceed with caution. But if we are asked to proceed with caution then you have to ask “why is that?”

Either the people who are warning against yoga are being extremists or the Church has completely failed us in this regard.

The Church will never completely fail us but many within the church do. There are priests, bishops, cardinals and even some popes who have failed us but the Holy Spirit has always remained with her and preserved the Church in matters of faith and morals.

I am very interested in reading “LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON SOME ASPECTS OF CHRISTIAN MEDITATION” - can you please provide the link so that I and others reading this post can also take a look?

I have more faith in the man who is now Pope than in the opinions of people on this forum.

I agree that is why I would like to read your letter in it’s entirety.

Cheers!