Yoga - not just a benign exercise!

[Layman]

That wasn’t really the point. I guess this might work better:

If I were as scrupulous as to shun the Western exercise that was stolen from the Hindus and turned into something else, I’d probably end up like certain Protestants I know, who won’t celebrate Christmas because the date the Church chose coincides with the Roman feast of Sol Invictus, the “Conquering Son (OOPS!, I mean Sun…)”. Nor would I put up a Christmas tree, knowing that in the past a Christmas tree was really a heathen offering to the gods of nature by the Germanic barbarians. In fact, I’d be uncomfortable with many of the things the Church ‘borrowed’ from other religions and gave a Holy meaning.

I think the Roman festival came after the Christian celebration and St. Boniface invented the Christmas tree. From memory, the Emperor at the time wanted an alternative festival to that of those increasingly popular and pesky Christians. I used to believe as you do about these items but then I found Catholic Answer forums

 

[Vixit]

I think the Roman festival came after the Christian celebration and St. Boniface invented the Christmas tree. From memory, the Emperor at the time wanted an alternative festival to that of those increasingly popular and pesky Christians. I used to believe as you do about these items but then I found Catholic Answer forums

LOL, no. I’m afraid the Roman mythos far predates Christianity.

 

[Layman]

LOL, no. I’m afraid the Roman mythos far predates Christianity.

It was an article like this that caused me to doubt the standard, ‘learned’, position that Christmas is derived from the feast of Sol Invictus or the Saturnalia. Or any other pagan festival. If that’s what you’re referring to.

 

[faithfully]

And what about other efforts at Christianisation, like praisemoves.com/

Lily, have you tried PraiseMoves? It actually seems pretty cool. Would love a review if you have one…

 

[Pitcharan]

He (and you for that matter) have accused me of ALL of the negative things you two have said about yoga - you’ve accused ALL people who do yoga of all of them, since you’ve made no distinctions of any kind among them. At least not until I pointed out that there are some (myself included) who don’t fit the easy little mould you two were putting all people who do yoga into.

I did not put any practioner of yoga into any mold as you allege but merely explained how yoga originated. I stand by whatever I said about yoga and if you love yoga more than your brothers in Christ that is your problem

 

[Jennifer_G]

I took Yoga at a community college years back, but only because it was a phys ed requirement that I needed (only other option was swimming, which I couldn’t do since I can’t wear hearing aids in water…), and I needed 1 more credit to be a full time student for a scholarship. The teacher did have incense (I told him not to use it for the rest of the class), and introduced some “mysticism 101” to the class (to me it was silly stuff like connecting two of your fingers creates a circuit and such). The only thing we really did was lay on a mat for 30 minutes.

 

[Pitcharan]

…If I made a general comment about Indians, for example - ‘Indians believe in reincarnation’ or ‘Indians believe in many gods’ - and left my comment at that gross and totally inaccurate generalisation, would you not bother to correct me?..

Instead of making wild allegations, why don’t you be specific and quote the alleged general comment if any? I have made neither general comment nor specific comment about any practioner of yoga?

 

[benedictus2]

LOL, no. I’m afraid the Roman mythos far predates Christianity.

Layman is correct.

That Roman mythos predates Christianity with regards Christmas IS the myth.

From “Mary Mother of the Son” by Mark Shea :

*"The definitive “Handbook of Biblical Chronology” by Professor Jack Finegan cites an important reference in the “Chronicle” written by Hippolytus of Rome, 3 decades before Aurelian launches his festival. Hippolytus said Jesus’s bith “took place eight days before the kalends of January” that is Dec 25.

Tighe said there’s evidence that as early as the second and third centuries, Christian sought to fix the birth dates to help determine the time of Jesus’ death and resurrection for the liturgical calendar - long before Christmas also became a festival.

In short, there was agitation in the early Church concerning not Jesus’s birthday but the day upon which the historical Good Friday and Easter fell. In the Eastern Church, the tradition focused on April 6 as the date for the original Good Friday, while in the western Church it was widely held that the date was March 25.*

**Why does this matter? ** Tighe continues:
At this point, we have to introduce a belief that seems to have been widespread in Judaism at the time of Christ, but which, as it is nowhere in the Bible, has completely fallen from the awareness of Christians. The ideas is that of the “integral age” of the great Jewish prophets: the idea that the prophets of Israel died on the same dates as their birth or conception.

This notion is a key fctor in understanding how some early Christians came to believe that December 25 is the date of Christ’s birth. The early Christian applied this idea to Jesus, so that March 25th and April 6th were not only the supposed dates of Christ’s birth but of his conception or birth as well. There is some fleeting evidence that at least some first century and second century Christians thoguht of Mar 25 or April 6 as the date of Christ’s birth, but rather quickly the assignment of March 25 as Christ’s conception prevailed.

It is to this day commemorated almost universally among Christians a the Feast of the Annunciation, when the Archangel Gabriel brought the good tidings of a saviour to the Virgin Mary, upon whose acquiescene the Eternal Word of God (Light of Light, True God of True God, begotten of the Father before all ages forthwith became incarnate in her womb. What is the length of pregnancy? Nine months. Add nine months to March 25th and you get December 25th. Add it to April 6th and you get January 6th. December 25th is Christmas, January 6th is Epiphany.

***And because these traditional, albeit competing birth dates were already being revered in the rapidly growing Church, the emperor of a failing pagan empire instituted the Feast of the Unconquered Sun not only as an “effort to use the winter solstice to make a political statement, also almost certainly [as] an attempt to give a pagan significance to a date already of importance to Roman Christians”
***…

That Christmas was a pagan festival was actually a lie that Paul Jablonski (a German Protestant) perpetuated in a desire to show the paganization of Catholic Christianity.

 

[LilyM]

Agreed. Using techniques like this to achieve mystical effects is a form of sorcery. Add in the ignorance of the practitioners and the advanced levels they jump straight into

‘The practitioners’ = ME. So I am, according to you, ignorant, and I, according to you, have jumped straight into advanced levels.

Generalising much?

 

[LilyM]

I admire your discernment and conviction. God bless you.

Hear some more about it from a person who belongs to the land of yoga:

• It was born out of a dire need by people whose only function was to eat and fatten themselves in God’s name
• These people had made it a law to be fed on all occasions including birth, marriage and death* They literally did no work but managed to rule and exploit in God’s name
• They successfully developed this ingenious method of exercising mind and body in a few minutes through postures
• They did not stop at that and went on to extend this technique for enhanced carnal pleasure (kamasutra)
• They gave it a ‘spiritual halo’ to silence their own spirit (conscience)

It is unfortunate that many catholics are drawn to yoga rather than the spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius. I wish they realise that no prophet, nor Jesus nor any saint ever considered it necessary to teach people how to preserve our perishable bodies. They all were only concerned about the soul.

Where do I start? How on EARTH do you know any of what you claim about the origins of yoga? Were you there when it started? Was this ‘person who belongs to the land of yoga’ there? I doubt that either of you know any more about the matter than I do when it comes down to it.

“These people who started it”? Name them for me, please. All of them. Make sure you leave none out, since you are commenting on all of them and not just some. Who were each of them, when, where and how did each of them live? Did you live in close contact with each and every one of them that you know so much about their inmost thoughts and motives and what they did and said? ‘Did LITERALLY no work?’ Did you observe each and every one of them 24 hours a day that you know this for a fact?

Were they all, every last one of them, to a man woman and child, exactly as you describe, without exception? Are you sure? What proofs can you put forward other than your assertion?

What about the ‘many Catholics’ - how do you know it’s many? What number of Catholics exactly practice yoga? How many, exactly, practice the spiritual exercises of St Ignatius? What is the number that in fact do both? Unless you know the answers to all these questions THAT assertion is entirely baseless as well.

This is what I mean by gross generalisation - you’ve presumed that each and every one of the group of people who ‘started’ yoga (ie its first practitioners) was of exactly the same character as each and every other one. And that you know what motivated them and the details of how they behaved. And where and how did you gain this knowledge of them? What is your expertise on the matter?

 

[Pitcharan]

Where do I start? How on EARTH do you know any of what you claim about the origins of yoga? Were you there when it started? Was this ‘person who belongs to the land of yoga’ there? I doubt that either of you know any more about the matter than I do when it comes down to it.

“These people who started it”? Name them for me, please. All of them. Make sure you leave none out, since you are commenting on all of them and not just some. Who were each of them, when, where and how did each of them live? Did you live in close contact with each and every one of them that you know so much about their inmost thoughts and motives and what they did and said? ‘Did LITERALLY no work?’ Did you observe each and every one of them 24 hours a day that you know this for a fact?

Were they all, every last one of them, to a man woman and child, exactly as you describe, without exception? Are you sure? What proofs can you put forward other than your assertion?

What about the ‘many Catholics’ - how do you know it’s many? What number of Catholics exactly practice yoga? How many, exactly, practice the spiritual exercises of St Ignatius? What is the number that in fact do both? Unless you know the answers to all these questions THAT assertion is entirely baseless as well.

This is what I mean by gross generalisation - you’ve presumed that each and every one of the group of people who ‘started’ yoga (ie its first practitioners) was of exactly the same character as each and every other one. And that you know what motivated them and the details of how they behaved. And where and how did you gain this knowledge of them? What is your expertise on the matter?

Your over reactions and oubursts expose your negativity and / or guilt. Don’t distort my words by equating those who “invented yoga” with those who “practice yoga”. I am not obliged to respond to your unwarranted, unreasonable and ugly queries which are not one bit in good taste. First of all, sit and introspect, why our critcal views on yoga hurts you personally and realise that you have already made a spectacle of yourself by your responses to the posts of Benedictus, Layman and mine?

 

[Pitcharan]

Those who wish to know what yoga does to those who practice it, may read the posts made by LilyM on this thread.

 

[Layman]

I think there’s something in the notion of chakras, if you think about the sensations you have in the areas associated with them.

e.g. Why should we feel ‘heartbreak’ and other sensations around what is basically a pump? Mind you, I don’t know enough about anatomy to speak authoritavely about this.

I recall reading about Orthodox monks who had mystical sensations associated with the heart area. I can see how maniplating your spine, coupled with deep meditation, could have interesting effects on consciousness.

I used to read a lot of occult books. Even enthusiasts warned about messing about with kundalini.

I mean, why do the Hindus do yoga to such extremes if its just a form of exercise? There’s got to be more to it.

 

[Jennifer_G]

I’m sorry, when I was into yoga there was NO mention whatsoever of ‘reaching an impersonal Godhead through manipulation of the physical body and the chakra energy centres to attain enlightenment’. Not at any stage.

The phys ed teacher I had (I think he must’ve been a Hindu convert) actually talked about that stuff during class (made mostly of elderly people, actually), and even had incense burning.

And I simply do NOT believe one can do such things, or somehow be sucked into a ‘system’, unless one is at least open to the idea of it happening, if not actually wanting or desiring it to happen.

Right. I pretty much blocked everything the instructor said and did whatever activity we were doing (laying down, stretching, etc.) It’s the intention that counts. I was doing it just to get that last college credit out of the way, and it was the only viable option left.

 

[Grateful_Soul]

You are right, practicing it does not mean you acknowledge the Hindu beliefs, BUT, it does mean that you are using, for whatever reason, poses that are meant as worship to false gods. You might call them exercise but yoga masters call them poses. That’s becasue they are poses of worship to false gods, demons! This is the fact that has to be recognized no matter what your opinion of the physical benefits you might have felt you derived from the poses. They are not exercies, they are poses meant for worshipping the many, many false gods. When you deliberately assume one of the poses you are participating in the worship of a demon for that is actually what the poses are, not exercises, poses of worship to false gods!

You can say, but, I don’t beleive that way, I don’t have that intention. It doesn’t matter, Satan would rather have you ignorant and drive home in your mind, it’s only exercise that I am doing, I am gaining some good physical benefits when in fact He is the father of all lies and is not going to give you facts, only misinformation, misrepresentation as well as the example of other misinformed Catholics who are also using these same worship poses as exercise. Ignorance is not bliss and Satan will use EVERY opportunity to destroy your soul!

It is loving for one Christian to want to give the truth to another using any reasonable means to show the truth. That is why these people who have been delivered from the darkness of pagan practices share their experiences with others. That is why good Catholics like Sue Brinkmann share the truths of the faith concerning these practices that souls may be delivered and others saved from becoming involved in these pagan practices in the first place.

Rejecting the truth is so common to those who have used these poses of false worship and called them exercise. Once you participate, even ignorantly, you are opened up to and bombarded by the demons with lies and misleading people to keep you in the dark and further lead you into darkness. Satan comes only to Kill, Steal and Destroy our soul! That’s his only work! You continuing to assume poses of worship to his demons and to Satan himself only pleases him because he can further draw you away from the truth as you are slowly indoctrinated with the lies that cause you difficulty in hearing, beleiving and understanding truth when someone does present it to you! Remember these are poses of worship of demons, false gods, NOT exercises!

To me this is not hard to understand, but to someone who has participated and staunchly defends his continued participation I see that the lies of Satan have already begun to take root and darken the ability to discern TRUTH!

There is really no reason for anyone to need these poses. There are many good exercises that are not poses designed for the worship of demons. Walking is one of the best and it actually helps bring order in the body. It’s safe and Jesus Himself walked most everywhere He went while on earth. There is really no reason, no matter what your health, that you need to use poses of false worship as exercises.

Also someone said accidentally forming your body in one of the poses would be practicing yoga and offend God. No, I disagree with that. The actual practice of deliberatly assuming the different poses is a deliberate act of the will to use these pagan god worship poses as exercise. Accidentally getting into one of those poses does not involve the deliberate act of my will to form my body in one of the hundreds of poses, it is simply that, an accident and God is not a taskmaster, He is a loving God and will not hold that accident against us.

But continuing to use the poses, plus knowing and being warned now takes you from ignorance and makes you responsible to stop using these poses. They are what they are and you cannot claim ignorance anymore. But you can stop doing these poses, renounce the practice of yoga, confess your knowledge of it and from now on avoid the practice of these poses so that you no longer put your soul at risk by using poses of worship to demons. God will heal your soul, bring His grace down upon you and aid you in discerning what else must be done to “clean up” the mess that Satan had been able to manifest in your life by your participation in the poses of false worship.

But remember, there are still many Catholics who do not accept the truth of what these poses are and will continue to tell you “in their opinon there is nothing wrong with yoga” when you start looking for answers, they will tell you it’s simply exercise. But the TRUTH must be heard and so remember those who have shared their experience, they are sharing the truth, hear them, read their stories and see in their sharing the love of Jesus for your deliverance is nigh! Praise the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost!

We are here to know, love and serve God in this life so that we can be happy with Him in the next. That is why we are here and yoga does not fall in the knowing, loving and serving God as it is worship of the enemy of our souls, Satan and his demons.

May God’s mercy fall upon all who have and/or are participating in yoga or any other pagan practice and show each person the dangers and the way of escape back to the loving arms of the Father!
God bless all!
Grateful Soul

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

You are right, practicing it does not mean you acknowledge the Hindu beliefs, BUT, it does mean that you are using, for whatever reason, poses that are meant as worship to false gods. You might call them exercise but yoga masters call them poses. That’s becasue they are poses of worship to false gods, demons! This is the fact that has to be recognized no matter what your opinion of the physical benefits you might have felt you derived from the poses. They are not exercies, they are poses meant for worshipping the many, many false gods. When you deliberately assume one of the poses you are participating in the worship of a demon for that is actually what the poses are, not exercises, poses of worship to false gods!

Runes were originally used for magic and divination by ancient Germanic tribes. I suppose you’d also condemn Tolkien since he derived his artificial script, Cirth, from them? Pentagrams are symbols of either pagan or satanic groups so does that mean I oughta cross myself, douse myself with holy water, and pray the Rosary every time I (or some other unfortunate soul) ends up making one while practicing geometry? What about fire and incense? They’re used in other religious practices as well. Should we condemn the use of both even though the former was vital in the first steps of human civilization and the latter is also used in Mass? :ehh:

 

[LilyM]

Your over reactions and oubursts expose your negativity and / or guilt. Don’t distort my words by equating those who “invented yoga” with those who “practice yoga”. I am not obliged to respond to your unwarranted, unreasonable and ugly queries which are not one bit in good taste. First of all, sit and introspect, why our critcal views on yoga hurts you personally and realise that you have already made a spectacle of yourself by your responses to the posts of Benedictus, Layman and mine?

Oh OK, so you didn’t criticise me, but you criticised other people who are similar to me in one respect instead. And don’t pretend you were just critical of yoga, you were slandering the people who started it (as a group) as being exploitative of others (doing literally no work, but expecting to be fed by others anyway) among other things. With no proof or evidence offered at all that this was actually true.

I accept the distinction you’ve made, however, though and thank you for affirming that there actually isn’t anything about me personally that you were criticising. The distinction doesn’t make your criticism of these others acceptable, of course, vicious and baseless as it is.

I am a lawyer by profession - it’s part of my job to speak up on behalf of people who often can’t defend themselves properly. Since the people you have criticised aren’t and can’t possibly be here to defend themselves, I’ve every right to take on that role, and shouldn’t be presumed to be doing so out of guilt.

If you saw me in court defending someone accused of murder, would you presume that I was doing so out of guilt because I myself was a murderer? Even if I were similar to the person I was defending in the fact that we did the same form of exercise? Of course not, you would understand that I was simply doing my job and upholding the right of every accused person, no matter what they are accused of, to have someone speak on their behalf unless they have admitted guilt or had proven guilt against them. Neither of which applies in this case.

 

[cjforJesus]

This thread seems to have digressed a bit leaning now more toward some type of defense Re: Is Yoga contrary to our faith?

---

I found this thread by a catholic answers apologist:

While the physical aspects of Yoga can be beneficial, the spiritual aspects may be harmful as they flow into “New Age” religiosity. The Church’s reflection on the New Age, Jesus Christ: The Bearer of the Water of Life, warns us:

Quote:
Yoga, zen, transcendental meditation and tantric exercises lead to an experience of self-fulfilment or enlightenment. Peak-experiences (reliving one’s birth, travelling to the gates of death, biofeedback, dance and even drugs – anything which can provoke an altered state of consciousness) are believed to lead to unity and enlightenment. Since there is only one Mind, some people can be channels for higher beings. Every part of this single universal being has contact with every other part. The classic approach in New Age is transpersonal psychology, whose main concepts are the Universal Mind, the Higher Self, the collective and personal unconscious and the individual ego. The Higher Self is our real identity, a bridge between God as divine Mind and humanity. Spiritual development is contact with the Higher Self, which overcomes all forms of dualism between subject and object, life and death, psyche and soma, the self and the fragmentary aspects of the self. Our limited personality is like a shadow or a dream created by the real self. The Higher Self contains the memories of earlier (re-)incarnations.

Aspects such as these are certainly contrary to our faith!

---

Additional recent answers by Jim Blackburn

 

[LilyM]

This thread seems to have digressed a bit leaning now more toward some type of defense Re: Is Yoga contrary to our faith?

---

I found this thread by a catholic answers apologist:

While the physical aspects of Yoga can be beneficial, the spiritual aspects may be harmful as they flow into “New Age” religiosity. The Church’s reflection on the New Age, Jesus Christ: The Bearer of the Water of Life, warns us:

Quote:
Yoga, zen, transcendental meditation and tantric exercises lead to an experience of self-fulfilment or enlightenment. Peak-experiences (reliving one’s birth, travelling to the gates of death, biofeedback, dance and even drugs – anything which can provoke an altered state of consciousness) are believed to lead to unity and enlightenment. Since there is only one Mind, some people can be channels for higher beings. Every part of this single universal being has contact with every other part. The classic approach in New Age is transpersonal psychology, whose main concepts are the Universal Mind, the Higher Self, the collective and personal unconscious and the individual ego. The Higher Self is our real identity, a bridge between God as divine Mind and humanity. Spiritual development is contact with the Higher Self, which overcomes all forms of dualism between subject and object, life and death, psyche and soma, the self and the fragmentary aspects of the self. Our limited personality is like a shadow or a dream created by the real self. The Higher Self contains the memories of earlier (re-)incarnations.

Aspects such as these are certainly contrary to our faith!

---

Additional recent answers by Jim Blackburn

To state that the physical aspects of yoga are beneficial whereas the spiritual aspects MAY be harmful, as Mr Blackburn does, is not at all the same thing as state that the two aspects (physical and spiritual) can’t be separated, or that the mere practice of the physical aspects of yoga can or will pose an undue risk of harm.

As for the quote from ‘Christ the bearer of water’ - well, the simple practice of the physical poses of yoga does NOT lead to any experiences of ‘self-fulfillment’, ‘enlightenment’ ‘unity’ or any such. Any more than any other physical exercise does.

In my experience, the spiritual/psychological effect of yoga poses is the same as the effect of a good long walk, a form of exercise that I am very fond of. The same as that of any other non-yoga stretches, such as Pilates. So to me it is clear that this document is not referring to the mere physical exercises of yoga.

IF they were combined with non-Christian prayer or mediatative practices such as the use of Hindu mantras or the like, then of course there is grave danger. That’s not to say that there is danger absent such things.

I’d also point you to this thread forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=267430&highlight=yoga in which Fr Serpa, Catholic Answers apologist, says a mix of Christian prayer and yoga-type postures is fine, even a very good thing.

And to this thread with Michelle Blackburn, also a Catholic answers apologist forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=267430&highlight=yoga in which she states that ‘physical exercises that are common to yoga that promote health and well-being are fine’. Which is precisely what I do.

So it would seem that the apologists do not at all condemn yoga if done purely as physical exercise, nor even if combined with Christian spiritual practices rather than Hindu or New-Age ones.

 

[cjforJesus]

The physical aspects of yoga may be beneficial as in ANY stretching exercise,yet you are deliberately engaging in postures specifically designed to activate energy centers regardless if you intend it or not.It can occur

Yes we have two apologists seeming to disagree a bit,yet i am seriously concerned for your well being as a fellow Catholic.

My daughter bought some benign looking plastic toe rings from the internet .She placed them on her toes and she said she felt a weird crawling sensation moving up her legs.It frightened her and I realized she was unintentionally activating these centers. I advised her to throw them away ,which she did.