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TheHolyTrinity
Guest
I have been aware of Fr Dehcanet’s works for some time and did read this earlier in the thread.
I guess re-invention is required when there is a dire need.
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I guess re-invention is required when there is a dire need.
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TK421
Guest
The body and the soul both affect each other and the movements of the body are a language, which is the reason Catholics do things such as kneel, genuflect, make the sign of the cross, prostate, walk the Stations, etc. Doing these things purely mentally is not the same thing as accompanying them with physical movement or gestures. Physical gestures and movement accompanying meditation or prayer is universally practiced in the world.
A person doesn’t have to convert to Hinduism in order to practice yoga, nor does it have to involve Hindu spirituality.
A person doesn’t have to convert to Hinduism in order to practice yoga, nor does it have to involve Hindu spirituality.
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christofirst
Guest
This is actually the concern of the Church, from what I’ve read, rather than the imminent danger of demonic possession. The Vatican documents “Some Aspects of Christian Meditation” and “Jesus Christ the Bearer of the Water of Life” both address the recent popularity of non-Christian Eastern practices and ways of prayer. They caution against syncretism or the watering down of our faith through these practices. This assumes that a Catholic is seriously studying and engaging in these practices, more so, I would say, than doing yoga solely for the physical conditioning.
It is interesting to me that, despite the warnings from several outspoken clerics and lay people, these official Church documents do not, from what I can see, specifically mention demonic possession at all. They do suggest that a person who is psychologically unstable or insufficiently catechized would do well to avoid a deep dive into these practices, and with that I agree. But nowhere are these practices forbidden, but instead we read, “The majority of the great religions which have sought union with God in prayer have also pointed out ways to achieve it. Just as “the Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions” (Nostra aetate 2) neither should these ways be rejected out of hand simply because they are not Christian.”
But again, this is a long way from the original question about trying a yoga pose to ascertain one’s flexibility. It does say something about the fear that has been attached to yoga by some Christians.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
While this letter is often referenced very few might actually read it.
28. Some physical exercises automatically produce a feeling of quiet and relaxation, pleasing sensations, perhaps even phenomena of light and of warmth, which resemble spiritual well-being. To take such feelings for the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit would be a totally erroneous way of conceiving the spiritual life. Giving them a symbolic significance typical of the mystical experience, when the moral condition of the person concerned does not correspond to such an experience, would represent a kind of mental schizophrenia which could also lead to psychic disturbance and, at times, to moral deviations.
That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.
https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/...th_doc_19891015_meditazione-cristiana_en.html
28. Some physical exercises automatically produce a feeling of quiet and relaxation, pleasing sensations, perhaps even phenomena of light and of warmth, which resemble spiritual well-being. To take such feelings for the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit would be a totally erroneous way of conceiving the spiritual life. Giving them a symbolic significance typical of the mystical experience, when the moral condition of the person concerned does not correspond to such an experience, would represent a kind of mental schizophrenia which could also lead to psychic disturbance and, at times, to moral deviations.
That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.
https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/...th_doc_19891015_meditazione-cristiana_en.html
Tis_Bearself
Patron
The “outspoken clerics and lay people” would likely point to that as indicative of the general failure of the Church to acknowledge the Devil and the supernatural in recent decades.
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christofirst
Guest
Which I find difficult to understand. They are presenting themselves as more cautious than Pope Emeritus Benedict, who had a hand in writing both of those documents before he became pope. I consider him to be so thorough, so thoughtful, and generally conservative that if demonic possession was a real and common danger he would have emphasized it.
We had a pastor who did ride for runaways. It was from Nj to Virginia and back on bicycle.
He wore bike outfits.
Then we would see him jogging on country roads far from church most days when another Father did morning mass.
It finally clicked. Hes doing all of this for the Lord
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He wore bike outfits.
Then we would see him jogging on country roads far from church most days when another Father did morning mass.
It finally clicked. Hes doing all of this for the Lord
.
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blackforest
Well-known member
What do you mean by “changing your life?” There are very specific physical and psychological benefits documented in journals, (run your own Google Scholar search), but “changing your life” is pretty sweeping and vague.
Yoga is stretching. Flexibility is good for people, and relaxation benefits people physiologically and psychologically. None of what I’m saying is controversial or woo-woo.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
About what? Fr. Ripperger says many things, some the Church teaches, some his own opinion.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
“Yoga is demonic” is a broad statement.
I don’t think it’s wise to practice Hindu yoga or Hindu spirituality.
In addition, quite a few of the big-name yoga masters running around today are predatory or exploitative.
There are also quite a few people involved with yoga classes who have struggles in their own lives that I don’t think are best served by the yoga culture environment.
One of my best friends went off to get more into yoga and kept inviting me to come to her ashram. This was before I was back to active practice of Catholicism. Despite the fact that I wasn’t practicing, I wasn’t comfortable with the idea of going to a yoga ashram where yoga was being practiced in some manner that involved a non-Christian spirituality, so I didn’t go. I am no longer in touch with that friend because they now spend a lot of time going to India and doing other things with their life that don’t jive with mine.
Having said all that,
I don’t think doing yoga for purely exercise with no spiritual practices involved is anything more than an exercise class.
I don’t think that if you bend a certain way, without willing anything to happen other than you bent your body for exercise, dance, stretching, etc, that a demon will fly in and grab you.
I find the writings of Susan Brinkmann to be a bit much.
I am not big on the whole “Soul Core” thing although I can see where it was created perhaps to draw people, especially women, away from the yoga culture in places like NYC. So maybe it’s good for them, not for me.
I am very interested in Fr. Deschanet whom I only learned about via this thread. I feel like perhaps I made a new heavenly friend.
I have no idea what Fr. Ripperger thinks of anything I said above, but I don’t really care. Same for Frs. Martin, Altman, Heilmann, (insert celebrity priest of your choice name here). If I think I am having a problem I will discuss with one of my local priests whom I know or regularly confess to.
I don’t think it’s wise to practice Hindu yoga or Hindu spirituality.
In addition, quite a few of the big-name yoga masters running around today are predatory or exploitative.
There are also quite a few people involved with yoga classes who have struggles in their own lives that I don’t think are best served by the yoga culture environment.
One of my best friends went off to get more into yoga and kept inviting me to come to her ashram. This was before I was back to active practice of Catholicism. Despite the fact that I wasn’t practicing, I wasn’t comfortable with the idea of going to a yoga ashram where yoga was being practiced in some manner that involved a non-Christian spirituality, so I didn’t go. I am no longer in touch with that friend because they now spend a lot of time going to India and doing other things with their life that don’t jive with mine.
Having said all that,
I don’t think doing yoga for purely exercise with no spiritual practices involved is anything more than an exercise class.
I don’t think that if you bend a certain way, without willing anything to happen other than you bent your body for exercise, dance, stretching, etc, that a demon will fly in and grab you.
I find the writings of Susan Brinkmann to be a bit much.
I am not big on the whole “Soul Core” thing although I can see where it was created perhaps to draw people, especially women, away from the yoga culture in places like NYC. So maybe it’s good for them, not for me.
I am very interested in Fr. Deschanet whom I only learned about via this thread. I feel like perhaps I made a new heavenly friend.
I have no idea what Fr. Ripperger thinks of anything I said above, but I don’t really care. Same for Frs. Martin, Altman, Heilmann, (insert celebrity priest of your choice name here). If I think I am having a problem I will discuss with one of my local priests whom I know or regularly confess to.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
My opinion is no better than anyone else’s.
Each person has to form their own opinion according to their conscience.
There are very likely people for whom yoga purely for exercise may be an occasion of sin for some reason that would never occur to me.
I think the problems arise when we start trying to make very broad generalizations about how “if it’s bad for me, it must be bad for all” unless the Church - not an individual priest or bishop somewhere, but the Church in a formal teaching - says it’s bad for all.
The Church has condemned mindfulness focusing on self, and worship or spirituality involving non-Christian “deities”, so any type of exercise being done can’t contain either of this, which is not a problem for me as I don’t find either thing attractive.
Each person has to form their own opinion according to their conscience.
There are very likely people for whom yoga purely for exercise may be an occasion of sin for some reason that would never occur to me.
I think the problems arise when we start trying to make very broad generalizations about how “if it’s bad for me, it must be bad for all” unless the Church - not an individual priest or bishop somewhere, but the Church in a formal teaching - says it’s bad for all.
The Church has condemned mindfulness focusing on self, and worship or spirituality involving non-Christian “deities”, so any type of exercise being done can’t contain either of this, which is not a problem for me as I don’t find either thing attractive.
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