Yoga's spirituality is no threat to Christianity

[LilyM]

I was speaking to a friend about this thread and she told me that yoga in the U.S.A. is very different from the original concept of yoga in the east. She said yoga was originally a form of exercise with slight, if any, spiritualy aspects in it. It’s a very bastarized type of yoga that has the warped spiritual aspects in it in the U.S., so maybe on your side of the world it hasn’t been corrupted by the evil that we find here?

Well I certainly haven’t come across anything like the exercise with the photo :bigyikes:

I daresay if I progressed further in it I probably would, even here. I freely admit I’m definitely not the most dedicated student. But so much depends on the teacher as well.

 

[Montalban]

I do no meditation, Christian or otherwise, and attach no form of philosophy, Christian or otherwise, to my yoga when I do it. It is purely and simply a great exercise for the body. Nothing spiritual about it for me, and I suspect for plenty of people, and therein lies the confusion.

I haven’t found another type of exercise which works better for me. Not because I haven’t tried 'em - I certainly have. If I did find something I’d give up yoga in a heartbeat.

Yoga (Devanagari is a family of ancient spiritual practices dating back more than 5000 years from India. It is one of the six schools of Hindu philosophy. In India, Yoga is seen as a means to both physiological and spiritual mastery. Outside India, Yoga has become primarily associated with the practice of asanas (postures) of Hatha Yoga (see Yoga as exercise).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga

Please please, do not tar me or everyone who does yoga with the same brush as those people who do get into the meditation, into the Eastern philosophy and so on.

You’re not really doing ‘yoga’ (as defined above)

You’re doing more a yoga-lite.

Note the OP is about ‘yoga spirituality’, which is what I addressed.

 

[Sixtus]

Amen

 

[SedesDomi]

“Yoga” simply means “communion, or union, with God”. (And before I get flamed, “union with God” is another way to describe the very Catholic idea of deification, or theosis.)

So, from a Hindu standpoint, the goal of the Christian is, in fact, “yoga”.

Interestingly, the Sanskrit “yoga” is related to the English “yoke”: both include the idea of uniting, joining, getting in union.

To paraphrase Jesus, Matthew 11:

29 Take my “yoga” upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for your selves.

30 For my “yoga” is easy, and my burden light.

 

[Montalban]

“Yoga” simply means “communion, or union, with God”. (And before I get flamed, “union with God” is another way to describe the very Catholic idea of deification, or theosis.)

So, from a Hindu standpoint, the goal of the Christian is, in fact, “yoga”.

Interestingly, the Sanskrit “yoga” is related to the English “yoke”: both include the idea of uniting, joining, getting in union.

To paraphrase Jesus, Matthew 11:

29 Take my “yoga” upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for your selves.

30 For my “yoga” is easy, and my burden light.

Excepting that this was a means of ‘communion’ with a god that’s not God. That’s the whole problem, it’s a system for communing with a created being.

Imagine if you would this analogy. The Pentagram is a symbol commonly used for Satanism. IF someone took that Satanic symbol and told you that they used it to get closer to God (our God, not Satan) you’d be warning them of using the wrong ‘tools’ for the job (at least I hope you would).

But then, maybe next time you’re at mass and people come in with inverted crosses, pentagrams, and goat’s blood, you’ll think that they’re there to worship God with you.

 

[Hastrman]

The Pentagram is a symbol commonly used for Satanism.

Actually, I can’t find any evidence of real diabolists ever using it. Hermeticism (sort of late-medieval Scientology) did, but because it was the symbol of the Pythagoreans.

Anyway, yeah, you’re right, Yoga is not compatible with Christianity. It’s a strictly Hindu approach, and a North Indian, Monist Hindu approach at that.

See, both branches of Hinduism, Vaishnista (Vishnuist) and Shaivista (Shiva-ist) are monotheist…ish. But most Vaishnistas are monists–they believe everything is a part of God; while most Shaivistas are what’s called Dvaista (dualist, but not in the Western sense, the actual translation would be Eminentist)–they believe God is separate from the universe. It’s co-eternal with Him, but contingent upon him; it’s all quite complicated and confusing.

Vaishnistas are strong in the north, Shaivistas in the south. Yoga, like Buddhism, comes from the north of India (Buddha is considered an avatar of Vishnu by Hindus). Yoga’s almost like a Hindu charismatic movement, seeking union with god from ecstatic trances. Also, of course, being monist, the union it seeks means the annihilation of the self (which is an illusion anyway). As such, it’s not compatible with Christianity.

 

[Montalban]

Actually, I can’t find any evidence of real diabolists ever using it. Hermeticism (sort of late-medieval Scientology) did, but because it was the symbol of the Pythagoreans.

Anyway, yeah, you’re right, Yoga is not compatible with Christianity. It’s a strictly Hindu approach, and a North Indian, Monist Hindu approach at that.

See, both branches of Hinduism, Vaishnista (Vishnuist) and Shaivista (Shiva-ist) are monotheist…ish. But most Vaishnistas are monists–they believe everything is a part of God; while most Shaivistas are what’s called Dvaista (dualist, but not in the Western sense, the actual translation would be Eminentist)–they believe God is separate from the universe. It’s co-eternal with Him, but contingent upon him; it’s all quite complicated and confusing.

Vaishnistas are strong in the north, Shaivistas in the south. Yoga, like Buddhism, comes from the north of India (Buddha is considered an avatar of Vishnu by Hindus). Yoga’s almost like a Hindu charismatic movement, seeking union with god from ecstatic trances. Also, of course, being monist, the union it seeks means the annihilation of the self (which is an illusion anyway). As such, it’s not compatible with Christianity.

I’ll re-write the sentence

Imagine if you would this; the Pentagram is a symbol commonly used for Satanism.

 

[Contarini]

Excepting that this was a means of ‘communion’ with a god that’s not God.

There is no god but God.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Anyway, yeah, you’re right, Yoga is not compatible with Christianity. It’s a strictly Hindu approach, and a North Indian, Monist Hindu approach at that.

See, both branches of Hinduism, Vaishnista (Vishnuist) and Shaivista (Shiva-ist) are monotheist…ish. But most Vaishnistas are monists–they believe everything is a part of God; while most Shaivistas are what’s called Dvaista (dualist, but not in the Western sense, the actual translation would be Eminentist)–they believe God is separate from the universe. It’s co-eternal with Him, but contingent upon him; it’s all quite complicated and confusing.

Vaishnistas are strong in the north, Shaivistas in the south. Yoga, like Buddhism, comes from the north of India (Buddha is considered an avatar of Vishnu by Hindus). Yoga’s almost like a Hindu charismatic movement, seeking union with god from ecstatic trances. Also, of course, being monist, the union it seeks means the annihilation of the self (which is an illusion anyway). As such, it’s not compatible with Christianity.

That is not what I have heard. I didn’t think the Advaita/Dvaita distinction was quite as simple as Vaishnava/Shaiva, and I know that that distinction isn’t a simple north/south one.

I was also under the impression that classical yoga philosophy was dualistic, and a quick Internet search found this Advaita website which agrees with me. I am of course open to correction from more authoritative sources. The website also says that Patanjali, the great sage of the classical Yoga school (and the author of what the yoga teachers I’ve encountered, in the Iyengar tradition, regard as the most authoritative text on yoga–in fact the only time anything explicitly Hindu entered any yoga class I was in was when the teacher would occasionally chant an invocation to Patanjali–in which of course I did not join) was a Shaiva. So your dichotomy doesn’t seem to hold up.

Edwin

Edwin

 

[Montalban]

There is no god but God.

Edwin

One can certainly make a ‘god’ out of something that’s not God.

 

[DiZent]

You could always try Praise Moves
praisemoves.com/

 

[Montalban]

You could always try Praise Moves
praisemoves.com/

I suppose if I were to follow my own objections to their logical extension then I’d have to ask if these “Praise Moves” moves were developed by Protestants (schismatics, and therefore a ‘threat’ to Christianity)

 

[DiZent]

I suppose if I were to follow my own objections to their logical extension then I’d have to ask if these “Praise Moves” moves were developed by Protestants (schismatics, and therefore a ‘threat’ to Christianity)

Praise Moves was developed by Laurette Willis who is Protestant. I had the same concern, however, I don’t think it endangers me spiritually me to exercise with Protestants.

 

[Contarini]

One can certainly make a ‘god’ out of something that’s not God.

True enough. A better response would have been that the God envisioned by yoga is clearly the One God who lies behind all the phenomena of the universe. And clearly there can be only one such being. So any time someone names such a being, they are naming, however imperfectly, the same God we worship. (That is one important reason why it’s silly to deny that Muslims worship the same God we do, though there are additional reasons in the case of Islam, given their appropriation of the Judaeo-Christian heritage.) "God’ is not a class of being of whom the true God is one member (or even the only member). “God” in the sense we believe in Him is not a class of being at all (insofar as there is a class of beings called “gods,” it would include angels and arguably also humans, at least potentially).

Edwin

 

[QuietTimes]

I just do not see how you can lump Our God with Hindu pagan gods, dieties and say they are the same, God, but he is a different manifestation. Then yoga becomes okay. Just because they have a belief in a god (s). It is not the same triune God we know. Jesus is the truth the way and light. Sorry if this does not sit well with many but that is what Christianity is about.

 

[Contarini]

I just do not see how you can lump Our God with Hindu pagan gods, dieties and say they are the same, God, but he is a different manifestation.

That is not what I said at all. Our God is not “a different manifestation.” Our God is the one and only God there is. There is no other God. There are other superhuman beings out there, but they are not God and must not be worshipped as such, and if they want to be worshipped they reveal that they are enemies of God.

The “gods” worshipped by other religions fall into one of the following categories:

1. The true God imperfectly understood
2. Figments of the human imagination
3. Superhuman beings erroneously given the honor that belongs only to God–while it’s possible that one might erroneously worship a good being (i.e., an angel) without the angel’s encouragement, it’s natural to assume that a being worshipped in this way over time is, if real, probably in rebellion against God; so it’s important for Christians to stay away from anything that might possibly sanction or partake of this third kind of worship.

Now, does yoga do that? The only context in which I’ve encounatered anything of the sort is the “invocation to Patanjali.” Patanjali was a human being (author of the classic text on yoga) whom Hindus believe to have been an incarnation of a god. I do not believe he was any such thing, of course, and I would never join in such an invocation. If the yoga classes I’ve attended had included this invocation on a regular basis, I would probably have stopped going, but given how few times it was used I had no problem simply sitting quietly and praying the Jesus Prayer to myself.

The “God” with whom yoga seeks union is a vaguely defined God, not a specific Hindu deity. Obviously Shaivas are going to imagine Him as Shiva, Vaishnavas as Vishnu, etc. I therefore have no problem putting yoga as a whole in the first category–Hindu yogis are directing their efforts toward the supreme God as they understand Him, not toward some lesser supernatural being. Admittedly the distinction is vague in Hinduism, since they see all the gods as manifestations or emanations or incarnations (depending on how you want to define it) of the one Deity. However, I think a fairly simple principle is that when Hindus speak in general of God or the Divine they are speaking (however imperfectly) of the one God and Christians can join with them (unless they say something obviously false about Him), but when they invoke a particular deity Christians must obviously have nothing to do with it (even though Hindus say they are invoking the one God under these particular names).

Then yoga becomes okay. Just because they have a belief in a god (s). It is not the same triune God we know.

Again, there’s only one God. God is not a being of a certain class, so that one may believe in a nonexistent God who belongs (or would belong if He existed) to the same class. Either people are invoking the one supreme God or they are not. If they are, then they are talking about our God, however many mistakes they are making in doing so.

Jesus is the truth the way and light. Sorry if this does not sit well with many but that is what Christianity is about.

I have no disagreement with that last claim, obviously!

Edwin

 

[La-Petite-Fleur]

cbn.com/health/fitness/bagby_yoga-alternative.aspx

The the link’s content is about a woman who practiced yoga for 22 years. She says some very important information, especially:

1- “These are postures that are offered to the 330 million Hindu gods. Yoga postures really are; they are offerings to the gods. If you do these postures and you do this breathing technique and this meditation, then you will be accepted by a god"

2- “Romans 12:1-2 says we are to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice to God,” added Laurette. “Here they are doing something very similar with these postures to their 330 million gods, and it is scary. So we abstain from things offered to idols—Acts 15:29.”

3- “Christian yoga is an oxymoron,” said Laurette. “It is like saying someone is a Christian Buddhist or a Christian Hindu. What some people are doing is that they are trying to make yoga Christian. Even Hindus are saying that you cannot do that.”

So even with just doing the mere poses without any meditation at all, is doing a potentially demonic religious activity (as the poses themselves are religious activities- they were made that way).​

Ah, well I see this was already mentioned in the thread.

 

[Montalban]

Praise Moves was developed by Laurette Willis who is Protestant. I had the same concern, however, I don’t think it endangers me spiritually me to exercise with Protestants.

Fair enough

 

[Montalban]

True enough. A better response would have been that the God envisioned by yoga is clearly the One God who lies behind all the phenomena of the universe.

No. The god of the people of yoga is one who seeks us to undertake ‘spiritual exercises’ that don’t lead to God.

And clearly there can be only one such being. So any time someone names such a being, they are naming, however imperfectly, the same God we worship. (That is one important reason why it’s silly to deny that Muslims worship the same God we do, though there are additional reasons in the case of Islam, given their appropriation of the Judaeo-Christian heritage.) "God’ is not a class of being of whom the true God is one member (or even the only member). “God” in the sense we believe in Him is not a class of being at all (insofar as there is a class of beings called “gods,” it would include angels and arguably also humans, at least potentially).

Edwin

Moslems don’t worship the same God we do. I invite you to the appropriate thread
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=130948&page=2

Moses got angry when the Jews made a calf and called it their god.

 

[LilyM]

cbn.com/health/fitness/bagby_yoga-alternative.aspx

So even with just doing the mere poses without any meditation at all, is doing a potentially demonic religious activity (as the poses themselves are religious activities- they were made that way).
.

Oh puhleeze - one of the ‘poses’ consists of nothing more demonic - or religious - than touching your toes. Another consists of the equally innocent act of standing on tippytoes with your hands stretched above your head.

Acts that most athletes and many children and dancers do all the time, since we’re divorcing them from any accompanying meditation or philosophy or mindset.

Are these athletes, children and dancers too opening themselves to demonic influences? To suggest they or anyone who makes the same motions in yoga is doing so, or inadvertently doing a religious activity doesn’t make a heck of a lot of sense.