You’re Most Important Decision

[oppositeman]

Whether we realize it or not, all Christians have been, and continue to be, evaluating their beliefs in light of new thoughts concerning morality.

There are many Christians who believe, that at this time in human history, the Holy Spirit is showing us a fuller understanding of God’s mercy. However, Orthodox Christians believe that any variance away from scripture as spoken by God in the Holy Bible is unacceptable. They view this as a satanic deception; focusing on accepting into the family of Christ, those children of God who do not believe in sin or the need to accept Jesus Christ as the Savior.

Obviously, those on one side of the fence or the other are going to be right and the other side wrong. Your salvation may be at stake, so I want to encourage all Christians to take the time for thoughtful meditation and prayer, asking the Holy Spirit for His guidance in helping them form the belief that is of God.

There is nothing in this life that is more important than ensuring you salvation, so please put this at the top of your “to do list” for the New Year.

 

[backtocatholic]

What exactly are you referring to? Not sure I understand your point.

 

[ServusHumilis]

What more understanding of God’s infinite mercy do we need other than that the confessional is always open?

 

[Poussin]

Whether we realize it or not, all Christians have been, and continue to be, evaluating their beliefs in light of new thoughts concerning morality.

Seems same old same old to me. Christian morality has always been questioned. Secular and relative morality has always been a challenging force. What is unique about today than 2000 years ago?

 

[Gorgias]

What exactly are you referring to? Not sure I understand your point.

It seems that oppositeman is asserting a (false) dichotomy between what the Holy Spirit says and what God’s self-revelation in Scripture teaches. It also seems that he’s asserting that the Holy Spirit is teaching “new thoughts concerning morality” that force us to “[re-]evaluate our beliefs.”

Since he’s asking us to “meditate and pray” for guidance by the Holy Spirit (rather than abide by Scriptural teachings), then it seems he’s asking us to buy into these “new thoughts concerning morality” that he asserts are developing (perhaps these are “new thoughts” about various immoral practices being touted by our culture?)…

 

[oppositeman]

What exactly are you referring to? Not sure I understand your point.

if you are on the wrong side of the fence then you are rejecting God’s wishes and that can have eternal consequences. Such as accepting and living with a women before marriage - accepting same-sex unions - civilly divorced people receiving communion. If God is against these that what you are doing is accepting sin as being ok.

 

[oppositeman]

What more understanding of God’s infinite mercy do we need other than that the confessional is always open?

I agree with you totally. I have made some other comments if you care to read them

 

[oppositeman]

Seems same old same old to me. Christian morality has always been questioned. Secular and relative morality has always been a challenging force. What is unique about today than 2000 years ago?

for one thing it would be the number of people are so much greater who will find out at their judgment that by accepting that which God is against what they have done is to accept sin - if in fact God is against same-sex unions, divorced Catholics receiving communion, the death penalty, abortion, living together before marriage etc. If any of these are sinful in God’s eyes and you accept them as ok for whatever reason then, I believe, Jesus will tell you at your judgment that you are not of Him and cast you into hell. Another thing that is unique, I think, is that more than half those voting at the recent synod were in favor of rewriting, in light of what they understand to be a more complete view of God’s mercy, the language that has to do with marriage - taking out the words “marriage is between a man and a woman” (I think I have it right)

 

[oppositeman]

It seems that oppositeman is asserting a (false) dichotomy between what the Holy Spirit says and what God’s self-revelation in Scripture teaches. It also seems that he’s asserting that the Holy Spirit is teaching “new thoughts concerning morality” that force us to “[re-]evaluate our beliefs.”

Since he’s asking us to “meditate and pray” for guidance by the Holy Spirit (rather than abide by Scriptural teachings), then it seems he’s asking us to buy into these “new thoughts concerning morality” that he asserts are developing (perhaps these are “new thoughts” about various immoral practices being touted by our culture?)…

no absolutely not - you have totally misunderstood what I was saying. I said SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE that the Holy Spirit is shedding new light. Yes you should meditate and pray because there are many Catholics who will accept this new morality - possibly to the eternal damnation of their soul. AND WHAT WILL PEOPLE DO IF THE SYNOD NEXT YEAR REWRITES CERTAIN ASPECTS OF CATHOLIC MORAL TEACHING? A lot of people I think will follow along, even though it may not side quite right with them, because we are taught to follow the Magisterium.

 

[Gorgias]

no absolutely not - you have totally misunderstood what I was saying.

OK… cool!

AND WHAT WILL PEOPLE DO IF THE SYNOD NEXT YEAR REWRITES CERTAIN ASPECTS OF CATHOLIC MORAL TEACHING?

It won’t. It can’t. Do you think God would allow the teaching of error from His Church?

because we are taught to follow the Magisterium.

Do you think that the magisterium can teach error in faith and morals? :nope:

 

[oppositeman]

OK… cool!

It won’t. It can’t. Do you think God would allow the teaching of error from His Church? yes I do and that is exactly what will happen prior to the second coming of Christ. We will see what happens at the synod in October - like I said the vote was in favor of changes in the language of our moral teachings - but not a 2/3 majority. Since people vote with their heart it is extremely unlikely, except through the power of the Holy Spirit, that they will change their minds - they only need 11 more votes to get the 2/3 for approval - of course the Pope can veto it or not implement it (I think - but I am not sure)

Do you think that the magisterium can teach error in faith and morals? :nope:

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

OK… cool!

It won’t. It can’t. Do you think God would allow the teaching of error from His Church?

Do you think that the magisterium can teach error in faith and morals? :nope:

Some IN magisterium clearly have in the past.
Else no changes where ever needed.

 

[Gorgias]

Some IN magisterium clearly have in the past.

There’s an important distinction here, though. Magisterial teaching only applies to the pope alone (under certain circumstances) or the pope in concert with all bishops, in terms of ‘new’ teaching. Others (i.e., individual bishops, or groups of bishops, or priests) can be said to be teaching infallibly, but only when they are teaching what the magisterium has already taught.

So, to say “some in the magisterium” is to explicitly say that you’re not talking about the magisterium at all, but rather, simply about individuals.

And yes, individuals can teach in error. But the magisterium cannot.

Else no changes where ever needed.

Umm… magisterial teaching – that is, doctrine and dogma – hasn’t changed. Ever.

 

[Gorgias]

Gorgias:

Do you think God would allow the teaching of error from His Church?

yes I do and that is exactly what will happen prior to the second coming of Christ.

Two thoughts: first, do you realize that you’re in conflict with Church teaching by what you’re asserting? No, the magisterium cannot teach error. Individual persons can teach error, but that’s a completely different issue.

Where, oh where, can you get – from the Bible or the teachings of the Church – that the Church itself will teach error “prior to the second coming of Christ”?

We will see what happens at the synod in October - like I said the vote was in favor of changes in the language of our moral teachings - but not a 2/3 majority.

No, it wasn’t. You’re misunderstanding what is going on. Please provide a citation for “a vote in favor of changes in the language of our moral teachings”, and we can discuss what this means…!

(I think - but I am not sure)

This, it would seem, is the problem. You’re not sure of the subject matter, yet are making wild assertions… :sad_yes:

 

[oppositeman]

There’s an important distinction here, though. Magisterial teaching only applies to the pope alone (under certain circumstances) or the pope in concert with all bishops, in terms of ‘new’ teaching. Others (i.e., individual bishops, or groups of bishops, or priests) can be said to be teaching infallibly, but only when they are teaching what the magisterium has already taught.

So, to say “some in the magisterium” is to explicitly say that you’re not talking about the magisterium at all, but rather, simply about individuals.

And yes, individuals can teach in error. But the magisterium cannot.

Umm… magisterial teaching – that is, doctrine and dogma – hasn’t changed. Ever.

what happens if in October if there is a 2/3 majority to rewrite Catholic moral teaching on same sex unions; and/or other moral teachings and the Pope approves it? Teaching evolves but is always based on what has been established prior to that point - It will not be in conflict with what has been previously established. But you know people can use some fancy words and steps to dance with - that can be seen by the secular culture as our Church, if not accepting, then being tolerant to same sex unions, contraception or any number of issues. Just because it has not happened doesn’t mean it cannot happen, I think.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the Truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the Truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
-Scripture taken from the Ignatius Bible.

 

[Poussin]

what happens if in October if there is a 2/3 majority to rewrite Catholic moral teaching on same sex unions; and/or other moral teachings and the Pope approves it? Teaching evolves but is always based on what has been established prior to that point - It will not be in conflict with what has been previously established. But you know people can use some fancy words and steps to dance with - that can be seen by the secular culture as our Church, if not accepting, then being tolerant to same sex unions, contraception or any number of issues. Just because it has not happened doesn’t mean it cannot happen, I think.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the Truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the Truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
-Scripture taken from the Ignatius Bible.

What happens if Jesus makes his second coming at the same time. I mean, really, its just as likely.

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

There’s an important distinction here, though. Magisterial teaching only applies to the pope alone (under certain circumstances) or the pope in concert with all bishops, in terms of ‘new’ teaching. Others (i.e., individual bishops, or groups of bishops, or priests) can be said to be teaching infallibly, but only when they are teaching what the magisterium has already taught.

So, to say “some in the magisterium” is to explicitly say that you’re not talking about the magisterium at all, but rather, simply about individuals.

And yes, individuals can teach in error. But the magisterium cannot.

Umm… magisterial teaching – that is, doctrine and dogma – hasn’t changed. Ever.

Indeed but that only concerns infallible teachings.
And for example there are no dogmas about sexuality for example, only traditions.
Big difference.

 

[oppositeman]

What happens if Jesus makes his second coming at the same time. I mean, really, its just as likely.

we don’t know the “day or the hour” but Jesus didn’t say the year - those who believe that we have entered the tribulation think it will be perhaps 5 years - Dr. Bowring, a Catholic theologian, in good standing with the Church has formulated a rough timeline - you can read it about it here - twoheartspress.com/

 

[Poussin]

we don’t know the “day or the hour” but Jesus didn’t say the year - those who believe that we have entered the tribulation think it will be perhaps 5 years - Dr. Bowring, a Catholic theologian, in good standing with the Church has formulated a rough timeline - you can read it about it here - twoheartspress.com/

Like I said, just as likely.

 

[oppositeman]

Indeed but that only concerns infallible teachings.
And for example there are no dogmas about sexuality for example, only traditions.
Big difference.

you don’t need dogma for sexuality - you have the bible - God clearly states His morality.