You ain't seen liturgical abuse......

[brittrossiter]

This makes me ill. At least the “Sisters” were not in attendance…

 

[mdgspencer]

Even if liturgicaldancing was entirely permissible, this performance was grotesque. I don’t think anyone would pay to go to such a performance if it was in a theater. Perhaps in Africa they would like such dancing? But if so it doesn’t suit our culture.
Hopefully even the people responsible won’t try it again.

 

[cecilia97]

Notice the church in the round, with overhead fluorescent lighting?

Notice any statues? Any Stations of the Cross? The restlessness of the “audience”? (What, you think I’m going to call them a “congregation”?!)

There were quite large Stations of the Cross on the walls around the back of the building. They look like paintings or hangings.

Is church in the round abusive, too? And flourescent lighting…what in the world could be wrong with that?

I didn’t care for the dancing, and I probably wouldn’t attend a parish a second time where I’d witnessed this (more than the dancing I particularly dislike applause in church), but the church building itself looks like dozens of others I’ve seen. Not very inspiring, but still a church.

 

[Manfred]

There were quite large Stations of the Cross on the walls around the back of the building. They look like paintings or hangings.

Philosophical question: in a “church-in-the-round”, where is the front, where is the back?

Is church in the round abusive, too? And flourescent lighting…what in the world could be wrong with that?

Well, of COURSE churches-in-the-round are abusive: not only does the priest (oops, “presider”) get to face the audience, the audience also gets to face the audience! Nah, nothing wrong with that, I suppose.

I didn’t care for the dancing, and I probably wouldn’t attend a parish a second time where I’d witnessed this (more than the dancing I particularly dislike applause in church), but the church building itself looks like dozens of others I’ve seen. Not very inspiring, but still a church.

But what do you do if it just springs a performance on you, as my parish did to us one Good Friday(!) ? Half-a-dozen pre-teen ballerinas went stomping up the aisle toward the sanctuary while we were kneeling at the moment Christ’s death was proclaimed in the Passion account.

 

[cecilia97]

Philosophical question: in a “church-in-the-round”, where is the front, where is the back?

Well, of COURSE churches-in-the-round are abusive: not only does the priest (oops, “presider”) get to face the audience, the audience also gets to face the audience! Nah, nothing wrong with that, I suppose.

But what do you do if it just springs a performance on you, as my parish did to us one Good Friday(!) ? Half-a-dozen pre-teen ballerinas went stomping up the aisle toward the sanctuary while we were kneeling at the moment Christ’s death was proclaimed in the Passion account.

It’s happened to me too. You either a) put up with it or b) get up and leave and find another Mass. I’ve done both.

Thankfully, my *very *orthodox and reverent parish, complete with a church-in-the-round building wouldn’t spring liturgical dance on us. Father wouldn’t stand for it.

 

[ReConverted]

I live in the Diocese of San Bernardino, and it is run by aging hippies.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<Another Protestant Bishop and Blasphemor!>>

What Protestant doctrines is he holding? Be specific.

 

[love4mary]

I tried to access the site given and it no longer exists.

 

[wynd]

I tried to access the site given and it no longer exists.

You have to look at the actual Youtube page. See post 17.

 

[anamchara]

Another Protestant Bishop and Blasphemor!

Please stop using the word Protestant as an epithet. That is very insulting and shows absolutely no charity. You might want to pick your catechism and read what it says on this matter.

This is not abuse as far as I can see. It was done after the Mass. You people jump so far in one direction I am surprised you can find your way back to the Church when you go on these witch hunts. First you start picking on the dance, then it goes to the lighting and the way the Church is built? For the love of heaven.

It was an African dance and done after Mass. I thought it was cool. I’m not going to rally around and burn any witches on this one. The people who video these sorts of things and the people who post them on u-tube must be miserable people. It’s taken out of context as these things always are.

 

[love4mary]

Thank You Wynd, I accessed the You Tube site and saw it with my own eyes

I arrive at Mass early, partly because I am the Sacristan but mostly because I need this quiet time to be with my Lord. After Mass I remain for a few minutes reflecting and praying. Once entering the sanctuary, we are in the presence of our Lord in the Tabernacle, this is HIS house that I am entering and all due reverence and respect should be shown. What I saw in that clip was anything But that. Do we attend Holy Mass to “entertain” the bishop or to be in the presence of our Lord?

The dancers were wonderful and it was their gift to the Bishop, but that gift could have and should have been given to him Outside of the sanctuary.

 

[Ramalama]

OK. I guess I’ll stop complaining about my RCIA instructor/nun handing out paraphrased copies of the 23rd psalm.

I came to the Catholic church for reverence, respect of the Lord, and Tradition. Maybe I’m in the wrong place.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Thank You Wynd, I accessed the You Tube site and saw it with my own eyes

I arrive at Mass early, partly because I am the Sacristan but mostly because I need this quiet time to be with my Lord. After Mass I remain for a few minutes reflecting and praying. Once entering the sanctuary, we are in the presence of our Lord in the Tabernacle, this is HIS house that I am entering and all due reverence and respect should be shown. What I saw in that clip was anything But that. Do we attend Holy Mass to “entertain” the bishop or to be in the presence of our Lord?

The dancers were wonderful and it was their gift to the Bishop, but that gift could have and should have been given to him Outside of the sanctuary.

Thank you for expresing so well what those of us in thoes of horror could not.

 

[Cristiano]

I want to think that I am a bleeding heart that wants to accommodate a lot of people, but I am getting old and that it is not true anymore. I looked at the video for 22 seconds and I had to turn it off.

I struggle with being a good Catholic and all these " possibly allowable" extras to our faith tend to push me back to my previous secular life of moral relativism.

I do not want to become a fundamentalist but I think that my participation in such things would hinder my spiritual growth.

 

[benedictgal]

Ralmama:

No, you didn’t come to the wrong place. Unfortunately, God’s house needs some serious cleansing, just as Jesus cleared out the Temple.

Before he became Pope, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger preached a very stirring homily on the day the Conclave started. The phrase that caught everyone’s attention was “Dictatorship of Relativism”. I suspect that this dictatorship has extended its ugly tentacles into our liturgies.

I, too, have been very disappoined with my own Bishop and the way he has let the Mass slide. However, Peter is still our Rock. He is the solid foundation on which Jesus built his Church. Don’t forget that. The Lord led you to his Church. He won’t steer you wrong. It’s not time to abandon ship.

As far as the liturgical abuses are concerned, I am very brokenhearted when I walk in on some of the Masses in my diocese. I try to offer guidance when I can, but it is frustrating to have to make a sacrifice just to sit through the Holy Sacrifice. I’m afraid that we, collectively, have forgotten that the Mass is not about US. It’s about God. Liturgy is the “work of the people”. And, with the kind of “work” we are putting out, we probably should have gotten fired.

Benedict’s reforms are starting. He is the kind of Pope we’ve been needing for a long time. I really believe that Peter will get the rudder going in the right direction.

 

[wynd]

Please stop using the word Protestant as an epithet. That is very insulting and shows absolutely no charity. You might want to pick your catechism and read what it says on this matter.

This is not abuse as far as I can see. It was done after the Mass. You people jump so far in one direction I am surprised you can find your way back to the Church when you go on these witch hunts. First you start picking on the dance, then it goes to the lighting and the way the Church is built? For the love of heaven.

It was an African dance and done after Mass. I thought it was cool. I’m not going to rally around and burn any witches on this one. The people who video these sorts of things and the people who post them on u-tube must be miserable people. It’s taken out of context as these things always are.

Wow. Can anyone say ad hominem?

It doesn’t matter if it was done before, during or after the Mass. To me, this is the height of legalism. The church building is still a holy, sacred place, and secular/profane things shouldn’t be allowed to happen there no matter what time of day it is or what else is happening. Can you imagine Jesus hosting a first-century dance party in the Temple? How about Pope Benedict hosting a rock concert in St. Peter’s Basilica?

If you think it’s cool, then fine. I thought the beat was kind of catchy. But why couldn’t they at least move it outside or to the parish hall?

Also, regarding the lights: As I mentioned, the church building is a holy place. Therefore, we should design and decorate it like one—not like a hotel lobby.

 

[Hellisreal]

The clip is no longer available to view.
I tried to, and got the sorry message.

“until you see the sort of madness the Bishop of the Diocese of San Bernardino is prepared to preside over. He can be seen recessing, along with the Catholic faith, one might add.”

cathcon.blogspot.com/2007/10/you-aint-seen-liturgical-abuse.html

Something happened after Vatican II and it is on the negative side.

 

[anamchara]

Wow. Can anyone say ad hominem

?

I admit, I was sorta sharp in my rant.) I just get tired of these ridiculous videos. There are completely taken out of context. I know nothing about this dance, it’s meaning etc. I know nothing about why the Bishop was there, I know nothing about the economics of said parish, it could be in a very poor section of town and perhaps the lighting is all they could afford when they built the Church. I can’t believe I have to defend lighting in a Church. Who the heck are we to say they were not being holy enough? That’s the theme I’m reading in here. It just doesn’t seem very charitable to me. For those who are sitting in horror, I’m sorry you feel this way. I think you are judging too quickly the situation. You cannot know enough about a parish and intentions by one short video.

 

[stmaria]

I admit, I was sorta sharp in my rant.) I just get tired of these ridiculous videos. There are completely taken out of context. .

 

[Hellisreal]

anamchara;2884156:

This one is not out of context.

youtube.com/watch?v=sRULNTperWE

Saw that one before.

No way is that okay.