You are Kepha?

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J. Knox Chamblin (Contemporary Presbyterian)
“By the words ‘this rock’ Jesus means not himself, nor his teaching, nor God the Father, nor Peter’s confession, but Peter himself. The phrase is immediately preceded by a direct and emphatic reference to Peter. As Jesus identifies himself as the builder, the rock on which he builds is most naturally understood as someone (or something) other than Jesus himself” “Matthew” in Evangelical Commentary on the Bible, 742].

R.T. France (Anglican)
“Jesus now sums up Peter’s significance in a name, Peter . . . It describes not so much Peter’s character (he did not prove to be ‘rock-like’ in terms of stability or reliability), but his function, as the foundation-stone of Jesus’ church. The feminine word for ‘rock’, ‘petra’, is necessarily changed to the masculine ‘petros’ (stone) to give a man’s name, but the word-play is unmistakable (and in Aramaic would be even more so, as the same form ‘kepha’ would occur in both places). It is only Protestant overreaction to the Roman Catholic claim . . . that what is here said of Peter applies also to the later bishops of Rome, that has led some to claim that the ‘rock’ here is not Peter at all but the faith which he has just confessed. "The word-play, and the whole structure of the passage, demands that this verse is every bit as much Jesus’ declaration about Peter as verse 16 was Peter’s declaration about Jesus. Of course it is on the basis of Peter’s confession that Jesus declares his role as the Church’s foundation, but it is to Peter, not his confession, that the rock metaphor is applied…Peter is to be the foundation-stone of Jesus’ new community . . . which will last forever.” (Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, [Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1985], vol. 1: Matthew, 254, 256)

Donald Hagner (Contemporary Evangelical)
“The frequent attempts that have been made, largely in the past, to deny [that Peter is the rock] in favor of the view that the confession itself is the rock . . . seem to be largely motivated by Protestant prejudice against a passage that is used by the Roman Catholics to justify the papacy” (Word Biblical Commentary 33b:470).

William Hendriksen (Reformed Christian Church, Professor of New Testament Literature at Calvin Seminary)
“The meaning is, “You are Peter, that is Rock, and upon this rock, that is, on you, Peter I will build my church.” Our Lord, speaking Aramaic, probably said, “And I say to you, you are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church.” Jesus, then, is promising Peter that he is going to build his church on him! I accept this view.” (New Testament Commentary: Exposition of the Gospel According to Matthew [Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1973], page 647JPK page 14]

David Hill (Presbyterian)
“It is on Peter himself, the confessor of his Messiahship, that Jesus will build the Church…Attempts to interpret the ‘rock’ as something other than Peter in person (e.g., his faith, the truth revealed to him) are due to Protestant bias, and introduce to the statement a degree of subtlety which is highly unlikely.” (The Gospel of Matthew, New Century Bible Commentary [Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1972], 261)

Herman Ridderbos (Contemporary Dutch Reformed)
“It is well known that the Greek word petra translated ‘rock’ here is different from the proper name Peter. The slight difference between them has no special importance, however. The most likely explanation for the change from petros (‘Peter’) to petra is that petra was the normal word for ‘rock.’ . . . There is no good reason to think that Jesus switched from petros to petra to show that he was not speaking of the man Peter but of his confession as the foundation of the Church. The words ‘on this rock petra]’ indeed refer to Peter” Bible Student’s Commentary: Matthew, 303].

+++

Of course, Jesus did not speak Greek but Aramaic. Therefore, the words that Jesus actually spoke would be more accurately translated, “You are kepha and on this kepha I will build my church.” The confusion over the masculine and feminine forms of the Greek petros and petra would not occur in Aramaic. We can see the use of the Greek form of Simon’s new name, Cephas, in several verses. Even Paul, the favorite Apostles of Protestants, called Peter “Cephas” in several of his letters which indicates that even Paul understood that Peter was the rock upon which the Church was founded. If not, he would have referred to Peter as “Simon” instead.

For the Protestant Reformers to rationalize breaking away from what was universally acknowledged in their culture as the Christian Church, it was necessary for them to deny the Catholic Church’s authority. To explain their new ecclesiology, they were forced to portray Rome as a kind of “anti-Church” that was unjustly claiming the prerogatives of Christ’s true (but invisible) Church.

Their chief target was, of course, the pope. To justify breaking away from the successor of Peter, they had to undercut the Petrine office itself. They were forced to deny the plain reading of Matthew 16:18—that Jesus made Peter the rock on which he would build his Church.
 
Also here is a link to a great CAF discussion on if Peter and Cephas were the same people in Galatians . They aren’t - its clear that Cephas is a disciple of Peter and one of the other later 70 disciples so Paul never rebuked Peter as Protestants like to believe…

James
Didn’t St. Catherine rebuke Pope Urban? Does that take away his primacy? No. So even if Paul had rebuked Peter, it would not have taken away Peter’s primacy.
 
Didn’t St. Catherine rebuke Pope Urban? Does that take away his primacy? No. So even if Paul had rebuked Peter, it would not have taken away Peter’s primacy.
Correct. But even a more prominent example of the same principal - Christ Himself rebuked Peter but did not take away His authority. Impeccability has never been a qualification for the papal office. That job qualification only applies to the position of Lord of All and God’s High Priest - Jesus.

The great commandments to Love God and Neighbor (the definition of Christian Charity) apply equally to all Christians irrespective of role within The Church. Any Christian can privately rebuke to correct another not living according to the faith - in fact its our duty to do so least we be held accountable for their sins. This however is not to say that the office given by Jesus can ever be rescinded by a fiat of human will. This remains true even if a pope should turn out to be “bad” by some private individual or group of individuals’ private judgement (which sounds more like a mob or vigilante group).

Biblically speaking God has NEVER ever condoned or given conditions for authorizing a revolution and division within His House. Even when forming His People from the early Jews living in captivity he made extraordinary attempts to work through the existing authorities before compelling their Egyptian task masters to let them go.

While revolutionists can call themselves “Reformers” or anything they might desire to attempt to morally justify their actions, by the same logical progression of principal Satan could do the same. It’s all defunct and bogus thinking. As it is, from my perspective, “reformation” in the Christian sense would necessitate an elective change from a peaceful assembly - NOT a compelled changed under naked disregard for established authority that generally holds all ecclesial authority (as well as secular authority BTW) as illicit.

Anarchy is not reformation, it is deconstructive and suicidal. The Office of Peter, irrespective of secular wishful-thinking and acts of rebellion against it, remains the only legitimate and divinely given ecclesial seat of The Church on earth. Those who call themselves Christian while denying papal authority have no rock to stand on while they self appoint themselves as their own popes and self-authorities. That’s metaphorically akin to putting a small river rock into a sling, spinning it wildly over head then flinging it incompetently into one’s own temple as if to defend The Church from the Goliath of self hubris (through an act of disgraceful self destruction). We could probably even work Samson into this too if we let them push the pillars hard enough so it all comes crashing down on their heads… 😉

Genesis 3:15
“I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.”

James
 
Genesis 3:15
“I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.”

James
Hey, isn’t that wrong? It should be “he shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for his heel.”

I think this translation error was caused due to some faulty manuscripts.
 
Hey, isn’t that wrong? It should be “he shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for his heel.”

I think this translation error was caused due to some faulty manuscripts.
Yes, you are correct. I hastily cut and pasted an old original Vulgate Genesis translation that has long since been corrected and revised. But irregardless it is still clear from scripture and present day knowledge that it is the offspring of The Woman (Jesus); and “the woman” is in fact Mary that is being spoken of here.😉 Sorry.

James
 
Protestant interpretation of Matt 16:18-20:
" 18. thou art Peter; and basically you are an insignificant rock, so i don’t even know why i changed your name to begin with. But i will build my Church upon this insignifant rock, which might or might not be your faith.
19. I will also give you the keys to the kingdom, and give spare keys to James White and other protestants to infallibly interpret for themselves, and have direct access to me
20. and whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven, but don’t go around binding stuff, cuz you ain’t even all that. One once you die this authority will disappear, because by then i would have already predestined all calvinist whom are in no need of you petty binding powers"
Okay, I LOL’ed. 😃
 
The sole reason in existence for any argument about the meaning of the Aramaic word Kepha, or Greek words Petra and Petros or any of the words of Our Lord when addressing the Apostle Simon in Matthew’s Gospel Ch 16 and calling him Blessed, and the Rock, is that if the Protestant Church, 1500 years or so after these words were uttered, didn’t come up with some attempt, no matter how pathetic, to try to refute the obvious meaning, they would be forced into the position of accepting the clear words of Christ, when he established this particular Apostle as the visible head of the Church on Earth, before Christ Himself returned to Heaven. As a result, they are forced to twist the words of Our Saviour Himself to suit themselves. Rather them than me.

God bless

Jimmy Two Guns
 
I think there is every likelihood that the person referred to by Saint Paul as Cephas, when he talks about rebuking him to his face, was not the same person as the Apostle Peter. Apart from the fact the names used are interchanged, the Apostle Peter’s vision etc would make it seem unlikely he would have done anything for fear of the Jews, and Paul himself circumcised Timothy for just that reason.

But in any event, even if St Paul did rebuke Peter this woud have no effect whatever on Peter’s Primacy as the Prince of The Apostles. Christ established Peter, not Paul or anyone else.

There is, in my opinion, a tendency by many protestants to view St Paul as the sort of “protestant saint” because of the above, and this is to twist the truth. As usual, those that break from the Catholic Church, founded by Christ, grasp at straws to prove anything they can against it.

God bless

Jimmy Two Guns
 
Hey, isn’t that wrong? It should be “he shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for his heel.”

I think this translation error was caused due to some faulty manuscripts.
The Jerusalem Bible has ‘it shall crush…’ and ‘its heel’
and the KJV has ‘it shall bruise…’ and ‘his heel’ :eek:
 
🙂
What is the meaning of kepha? Does it mean “stone” or “rock”? Someone told me that kepha means “stone” and not “rock”. In that case, what’s the word used for “rock” in 1 Cor 10:4?
🙂 Christ is the ROCK:thumbsup:
 
As only in the past several months have I been studying Catholicism, I once took at face value these beliefs of my ABA church:
16:17–20 “Upon which rock?” Jesus pronounced a blessing on Peter, declaring that only by divine revelation could he have made his confession (16:16). Jesus then foretold the founding of his church (16:18; see Acts 2). He said, “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church” (16:18). Some have interpreted this to mean that Peter was the foundation of Christ’s church. The wordplay in Greek shows, however, that Christ himself is the foundation:
• “You are Peter [petros, a little stone]”
• “and upon this rock [petra, massive rock] I will build my church.” Peter’s own confession (16:16) identified Christ as the church’s true foundation (compare 1 Cor. 3:11; 1 Pet. 2:4–8).
Willmington, H. L.: Willmington’s Bible Handbook. Wheaton, Ill. : Tyndale House Publishers, 1997, S. 535
I have found that only a minority of even Protestant texts/references come to the same conclusion as Wilmington and Wiersbe (Wiersbe refers to Catholics as “Romanists” so you can conclude his perspective.)

Logically the following makes more sense:
The reference of πέτρα to Christ is forced and unnatural. The obvious reference of the word is to Peter. The emphatic this naturally refers to the nearest antecedent; and besides, the metaphor is thus weakened, since Christ appears here, not as the foundation, but as the architect: “On this rock will I build.”
Vincent, Marvin Richardson: Word Studies in the New Testament. Bellingham, WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2002, S. 1:iii-92
It is stunning the amount of mental gymnastics some will use to avoid the truth while all the while claiming that it is others who are blind and that they are the ones who truly understand the Bible and take it literally.
 
:)🙂 Christ is the ROCK:thumbsup:
In the passage under discussion, I always thought that it was Christ talking to Simon bar Jonah, whom we know as Peter.
Matthew 16: 18-19
18 "I also say to you that you are Kepha (Rock), and upon this Kepha I will build My church (Singular); and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 19 “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”
Is Jesus the speaker here or not?

Peace
James
 
this is my favorite apologetic topic. it established the authority of Peter and the Catholic Church. the Aramaic/Greek translation i had to read over and over again so that it was ingrained in my memory. it really becomes so simple, and yet protestants are either completely unaware of this or refuse to comprehend it.
It is not known why Paul uses the Aramaic name rather than the Greek name for Simon Peter when he writes to the churches in Galatia and Corinth.
that is fascinating, i did not know that Paul actually used the Aramaic name in the Greek letters. that just further supports the Catholic interpretation. thank you!
 
No Protestant with any scholastic background can deny Peter’s authority since its really unassailable. All any Protestant can try to claim is the extremely weak and unprecedented position that the original Church established under the popes fell away and was “reformed” by Divine action. Of course this too is a ludicrous position since a bible-only Christian will never be able to find any scriptural authority or justification to rebel against God’s established order (even young David did not rebel against Saul as “God’s anointed” or murder him when he had the chance).
it boggles my mind how they cannot see this. personally, i’ve noticed there are other emotional reasons, especially resentments toward members of the Church, that keeps them from understanding this… not only can they not comprehend it, but they don’t want to. it keeps them safe where they are.

i’ve suggested that the truly sincere inquirer would find a university professor, preferably a scholar in Greek or the classics, to give an unbiased explanation.
 
it boggles my mind how they cannot see this. personally, i’ve noticed there are other emotional reasons, especially resentments toward members of the Church, that keeps them from understanding this… not only can they not comprehend it, but they don’t want to. it keeps them safe where they are.

i’ve suggested that the truly sincere inquirer would find a university professor, preferably a scholar in Greek or the classics, to give an unbiased explanation.
Please dont take this wrong but I have never laughed so much since I joined the Catholic Forums 😃 You two are so funny you need to read what you both wrote over again.Can I put in my :twocents: A scollar is ok to define a word but an english historical can put the meaning in perspective. Do I need to say the rosery now?:gopray: I love you both Nancy:)
 
Please dont take this wrong but I have never laughed so much since I joined the Catholic Forums 😃 You two are so funny you need to read what you both wrote over again.Can I put in my :twocents: A scollar is ok to define a word but an english historical can put the meaning in perspective. Do I need to say the rosery now?:gopray: I love you both Nancy:)
Nancy,
I’m not sure what you find so funny in the post(s) to which you refer. I hope that you are not refering to my post number 33 in which I asked you about who was speaking in the quote that is the topic of this thread.
I would still like your opinion. Was Jesus speaking in that quote? Who was He speaking to?

One other thing just because I’m a curious sort. In your profile you state that you were catholic and so evidently do not consider yourself one now. Do you have a church affiliation now?

Peace
James
 
Please dont take this wrong but I have never laughed so much since I joined the Catholic Forums 😃 You two are so funny you need to read what you both wrote over again.Can I put in my :twocents: A scollar is ok to define a word but an english historical can put the meaning in perspective. Do I need to say the rosery now?:gopray: I love you both Nancy:)
A scollar (sp) is ok? An english {sp/cap) historical (sp) can put meaning? 😉
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Last edited by nancy dalrymple : Today at 3:03 pm. Reason: spelling
I have never laughed so hard either. 😉

The rosary might get you back your two cents.

James
 
:rolleyes:
A scollar (sp) is ok? An english {sp/cap) historical (sp) can put meaning? 😉

I have never laughed so hard either. 😉

The rosary might get you back your two cents.

James
:rolleyes: And you think the Jews are stiff necked? Pray for devine intervention:highprayer: Nancy
 
Please dont take this wrong but I have never laughed so much since I joined the Catholic Forums 😃 You two are so funny you need to read what you both wrote over again.Can I put in my :twocents: A scollar is ok to define a word but an english historical can put the meaning in perspective. Do I need to say the rosery now?:gopray: I love you both Nancy:)
sorry i’m having a hard time understanding your post. anywho, the historian would refer to a Greek/Aramaic scholar to confirm the definition of Peter. he would use this definition to help you put it into context, hopefully. otherwise, any old historian may just give you his protestant interpretation without knowing the discrepancy between Aramaic/Greek/English. the protestant reads it merely as an English translation of Greek in 2009, not as a Jew at the time standing right in front of Jesus, a Jewish Rabbi speaking Aramaic.
 
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