You are my disciples, if you have love for one another

[NoelFitz]

I consider the main theme of this thread is being ignored.

Initially I wrote:

Can we not unite in our common religion and focus on the importance of loving God and neighbor?

Or should we write off those who are a bit wobbly, yet remembering we are all sinners needing God’s mercy.

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Hymin,
You seem to imply some persons are good others evil, rather than in each one of us there is both good and evil. Is this what you intended?

Pug
Did Aquinas suggest that part of the pleasures of heaven is seeing souls suffering in hell? I also think Paul wished the person’s spirit to be saved eventually on the day of the Lord.

Vico
I appreciate it that you note Jesus was a friend of sinners.

 

[Pug]

Pug

Did Aquinas suggest that part of the pleasures of heaven is seeing souls suffering in hell? I also think Paul wished the person’s spirit to be saved eventually on the day of the Lord.

Okay, I’d answer part A there as a “no” for a short answer, but since you asked, I suspect you would like some thoughts about what he himself said.

I vaguely recall the most direct route to your question comes from the Summa Theologica, from supplement Q. 94. Aquinas didn’t write that part, but is was assembled by someone after his death. it talks about the blessed and what they know or think about the damned. In summary it says the blessed see the damned, they do not pity them, and they rejoice in God’s Justice and in their own deliverance. To pity the damned would only be possible if it were possible to change the state of affairs, but it can’t be so changed, so pity is not possible as a rational choice. Also, Gentiles book 4 says that the will of the person in heaven is immutable and is conformed to God’s. I don’t see how someone like that could wish some other state of affairs from what God wants, and God is good. None of this sounds like schadenfreude, or pleasure at someone’s misfortune.

Concerning St. Paul, or part B of your post. Yes, Paul is very oriented to his mission for salvation. His love for his fellow Israelites is so much that he writes that he could wish himself accursed or cut off from Christ if that would help them. He also says in 1 Cor 10:33 just as I try to please all men in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.

 

[NoelFitz]

Pug
I should not have raised extraneous issues, not relevant to the main thrust of this thread.
But my friend Prof Google points out to me that St Thomas considers the blessed rejoice in the suffering of the damned.

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https://www.rts.edu/sharedresources/documents/global/Student_Theses/Johnson-Seeing_Hell.pdf

Wherefore in order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned.9

… That the saints may enjoy their beatitude more thoroughly, and give more abundant thanks for it to God, a perfect sight of the punishment of the damned is granted them.10

9 Thomas Aquinas, The Summa Theologica, Supplementum Tertia Partis, Question 94, Article 1.
10 Ibid.

 

[Pug]

It is all right. It is your thread and I find this type of question interesting.

Wherefore in order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it

This part I understand. If I go visit a SuperMax prison and then after I leave I give great thanks to God for all the people and graces he has put in my life to help me and guide me, I don’t think that is bad. Yes, I am rejoicing. Yes, I visited a prison. But no, it isn’t what I think people mean by rejoicing in suffering.

I prefer the following quote from supplement Q. 94 to understand this issue:
click for quote
A thing may be a matter of rejoicing in two ways. First directly, when one rejoices in a thing as such: and thus the saints will not rejoice in the punishment of the wicked. Secondly, indirectly, by reason namely of something annexed to it: and in this way the saints will rejoice in the punishment of the wicked, by considering therein the order of Divine justice and their own deliverance, which will fill them with joy. And thus the Divine justice and their own deliverance will be the direct cause of the joy of the blessed: while the punishment of the damned will cause it indirectly.
I don’t think we’ll be giving thanks to God for the suffering of the damned. We will give thanks to God for what God has done for us.