you are not welcome here...

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He was not expecting them to convert or to continue in their practice of the faith, no. He was writing them off, and sending them straight to Hell. But He already knew that they were going there, anyway - He could read their hearts.

There was no need for kindness, because there was no possibility of conversion, in their case.

Most of us are not such accurate readers of people’s hearts as Jesus was - that’s why we need to proceed on the assumption that people can convert - that is to say, with love and gentleness, as much as possible.
You really think not a single one of those traders was a possibility of being converted? You think none of them converted afterwards as a result of His actions? It’s hard to believe that some wouldn’t have got a wakeup call from the whole episode.
 
You really think not a single one of those traders was a possibility of being converted?
If there were, He would have treated them with love and kindness.
You think none of them converted afterwards as a result of His actions?
Would you? Think about it - God Himself is screaming at you like a maniac, throwing things at you. Would you convert to that?
 
Would you? Think about it - God Himself is screaming at you like a maniac, throwing things at you. Would you convert to that?
That sounds very critical of our Lord’s actions…are you actually criticizing what Jesus did in the temple? (screaming at you like a maniac, throwing things at you. )

Perhaps I’m misreading (and maybe thousands of others) your intent?

And as for human behavior, some people only respond to that sort of action…and our priests every once in a while want to reach the hardest of hearts.

Glad
 
If there were, He would have treated them with love and kindness.
Soft words are not always the most truly loving or kind thing you can do for someone heedlessly bent on their own destruction.
Would you? Think about it - God Himself is screaming at you like a maniac, throwing things at you. Would you convert to that?
There was no mania about Him - rather ‘zeal’, as the Gospel says, and He certainly didn’t throw things AT anyone. While He brandished a whip there’s no indication that He actually even used it.

As to your question - I know, growing up, sometimes my parents punished me seriously for things I did wrong.

While of course I was resentful at the time, it doesn’t mean that I was unable, after reflection and having calmed down somewhat, to see that what they were teaching was right. I don’t think I’m the only one this has happened to. And I certainly think such a thing is even more likely to happen when the teacher is Christ Himself!
 
ok, maybe i did not explain fully or properly, but it seems you guys are missing the intent of what i was saying. yes, the priest should protect the eucharist, yes pro-abortion people are in a state of sin and need to correct that, yes pro-abortion people should refrain from communion.

my point is his ATTITUDE. Christ wants people to get to heaven, and having the nasty attitude i see this priest displaying is not winning any souls for Christ. when he pro-abortion people come in contact with this type of attitude, the are only driven further away. shouldn’t we act in LOVE and KINDNESS, while still maintaining our Catholic morals? having the “your not welcome here” attitude is not acting out of love.
attitude is everything when it comes to children, the mentally ill and those who demand to be mollycoddled.
However, if his message was primarily for ‘Catholic Adults’ those who have been through confirmation,the sacrament of mature Christian commitment, then it is totally appropriate.

Dang I dont get you!
If this about having to kneel at the rail , when you prefer to stand, etc, then thats another matter.
 
Remember, too, that those who sin gravely in a very public way without expressing repentence can lead others into sin!!

A priest denying Communion to very publicly unrepentent sinners is not only admonishing them, but also protecting those who might be led into sin by their example.

Hopefully all those who signed the petition/letter also made an appointment with the priest to discuss the matter first with him.

I doubt it. 😦
 
To the OP: You are all wet. Please listen to those who have posted with much wisdom here.

Please listen to your priest, whom you are indeed FABULOUSLY LUCKY to have.
 
I think it is a duty of the priest to refuse communion to someone who is a public sinner. Catholics have a right to the Sacrament but with every right there is a corresponding duty. That duty is to be absolved of any mortal sins before approaching the rail. Since a priest cannot read hearts but can only know the externals he must refuse a public sinner to avoid a sacrilege and to avoid scandal.

The knowing denial of even a theologically certain teaching of the Church is a mortal sin.

SFD
Either this is correct or it is not. I know that it is correct. Now, it seems that there are many out there in CAF-land that really don’t care what the proper action is for a priest facing an unrepentant public sinner.
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dang71:
Christ came to reconcile the world to Himself, and this traditionalist priest follows the same attitude i see from almost all traditionalists i have ever met, the “holier/better than thou”, “we don’t want your kind around here” attitude which only acts to separate people.
Btw, Christ came for this as well:
Matthew Chapter 10:
34 Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. 35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

*35 “I came to set a man at variance”… Not that this was the end or design of the coming of our Saviour; but that his coming and his doctrine would have this effect, by reason of the obstinate resistance that many would make, and of their persecuting all such as should adhere to him. *

36 And as a man’s enemies shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me.
SFD
 
my point is his ATTITUDE. Christ wants people to get to heaven, and having the nasty attitude i see this priest displaying is not winning any souls for Christ. when he pro-abortion people come in contact with this type of attitude, the are only driven further away. shouldn’t we act in LOVE and KINDNESS, while still maintaining our Catholic morals? having the “your not welcome here” attitude is not acting out of love.
Sometimes you need to whip people with a cord to get the point across.

I think your pastor is 100% on the money. God bless him. I hope he’s made a cardinal someday.
 
i never cease to be amazed at the lack of charity and love among traditionalists.

i will stand by my statements. this priest’s “your not welcome here” attitude only serves to push people away. violence begets violence, and bad attitudes will beget bad attitudes. the fruits of this priests labors are division and conflict within the parish, which could easily have been avoided if he had acted with CHARITY. i am not saying he should give communion to pro-abortion politicians, but to shut the door on someone is contrary to the will of God. We are accepted back to grace EVERY time we go to confession, and we are continually encouraged by God to grow in our faith. for a priest to shut the door on someone is unacceptable and inappropriate.
 
my opinion is that he should act charitably and invite people back to grace and the truth of the church. saying you’re not welcome here is the same as saying you’re not wanted here, and that is absolutely incorrect. i am thankful to God that He welcomes me back through confession, and so should we welcome people back and try to encourage them to come back to God. shutting the door on someone serves no purpose.
 
my opinion is that he should act charitably and invite people back to grace and the truth of the church. saying you’re not welcome here is the same as saying you’re not wanted here, and that is absolutely incorrect. i am thankful to God that He welcomes me back through confession, and so should we welcome people back and try to encourage them to come back to God. shutting the door on someone serves no purpose.
Thanks for the correction. I was not aware that he was specific to someone who may have confessed their grave sin and was still unwelcome.:rolleyes:

I thought his proclamation was to those who were unrepentant, and who were openly pro-abortion… because you did say:

"…he was speaking about pro-abortion politicians and those that support them, and while i agree that they are in a serious state of sin, he said they “were not welcome at this communion rail”.

I would add that if you, dang71, were to support the position of these people, then you too are “not welcome at this communion rail”. Until you repent.
 
i never cease to be amazed at the lack of charity and love among traditionalists.
You seem to say “traditionalists” with quite a bit of distaste in your mouth. And just to make things more clear and put them in perspective, I am far from a “traditionalist” – I only attend the Latin Mass occasionally and usually when there isn’t another Mass, don’t wear a veil, don’t have a burning desire to return to the Latin Mass, etc…and I agree with all the posts praising your priest whom you are fortunate to have.

Moddycoddling unrepentant public sinners by a feel-good attitude hasn’t worked thus far…beating them with a feather and feeding them sugar failed…may as well tell it like it is.

Glad
 
my opinion is that he should act charitably and invite people back to grace and the truth of the church. saying you’re not welcome here is the same as saying you’re not wanted here, and that is absolutely incorrect. i am thankful to God that He welcomes me back through confession, and so should we welcome people back and try to encourage them to come back to God. shutting the door on someone serves no purpose.
Are you saying the priest says certain people cannot come back to full communion if they repent? Or, are you saying certain people feel that is what he is saying?
 
my position is this:
  1. he is incorrect. all are welcome, but those who are in a state of sin need to correct that first. saying you are not welcome is just the same as saying you are not wanted, and this is completely wrong.
Actually, excommunication is an act of charity. The offender is actually sent out of the Church. Why? In hopes they will return in true, genuine repentance. These people who have separated themselves from the Faith have separated themselves from Christ and thus they have placed themselves outside of Christ and His Church. Now, that does mean they are not welcome to do things that those who are in communion with Christ can do. That doesn’t mean they aren’t wanted. Christ wants all to come to Him but it does mean in their current state they are not welcome. “Not welcome” and “not wanted” are not the same. You make a false comparison. Christ wants them to repent but if they do not repent then they are not welcome.
  1. his attitude is unnecessarily abrasive. his abrasive attitude is causing people to leave the parish (I’m considering it, too).
Okay well if someone’s spiritual life comes down to the personality or abrasiveness of a priest then that is probably a shallow and weak spiritual life. Maybe he could express the point in a more charitable manner but sometimes things need to be stated forcefully so people clearly understand the gravity of the situation. Strong words bespeak grave situations.

Jesus used strong words. He called Pharisees whitewashed tombs. He overturned the tables.

Pax Christi tecum.
 
It would be interesting how people on this thread would respond if the priest preached strongly against those who question VC2. If he tore into those who deviated from what the Church actually directs – say those who insist on kneeling during the Agnus Dei despite differing directions from the local bishop;

I’ve never seen anyone kneel DURING the Agnus Dei at a Novus Ordo Mass, however, we’re supposed to kneel immediately after:

Since at least the 7th century, Catholics have been kneeling after the Agnus Dei, the point during Mass when the priest holds up the chalice and consecrated bread and says, “Behold the lamb of God.” But four years ago, the Vatican revised its instructions, allowing bishops to decide at some points in the Mass whether their flocks should get on their knees. “The faithful kneel . . . unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise,” says Rome’s book of instructions. Since then, some churches have been built without kneelers".

Since the GIRM states that we are to kneel, what would be the purpose of a Bishop saying otherwise??? If I could get a straight answer to that one, an answer that made sense…I would have no problem with the Bishop’s choosing to “do his own thing” even though the Vatican recommends kneeling.

I am a Traditional Catholic, however…I do what the Bishop of the diocese says re kneeling, CITH, etc. I think making a scene at any Mass is uncalled for. Since, I don’t want to be put in the position of having to choose between obeying the Bishop & doing what I believe is the right thing, I now go exclusively to a Latin Mass, as do many others who have had enough of the Novus Ordo “Commual Meal”.
those who condemn the practice of proceeding up for a blessing during confession even if the local ordinary allows it;
 
Some thoughts about being polite and not driving people away from the church.

If our first pope was thin-skinned, he might have left the church when Jesus said to Peter “Get out of my sight, you satan! You are trying to make me trip and fall. You are not judging by God’s standards but by man’s.”

Jesus also drove the money-lenders from temple. He did not say - “Look, guys. You are certainly allowed to desecrate this house of God week after week with sacrilege. You know it is wrong and you incorrigibly continue in defiance of all that is holy, but I am willing to work with you in a discussion group after services.”

Personally, I have real issues with the Truth of the Consecration, when I see week after week just about all Sunday Mass participants go to the Holy Eucharist when I know in speaking with them how unquestionably soft they are on abortion, even in the face of 50 million murders in 35 years.

Please keep me in your prayers, so that my faith in the Holy Eucharist is restored.
 
After reading the OP and most of all the comments, I really feel like we are AGAIN “straining at the gnat”-meaning we are arguing MINOR points and are missing the really important thought. Seems we are all willing to do this very quickly.

I think it’s good that somebody has taken a stand. Many of us -me included, are far too comfortable with the status quo. NOBODY should be in a state of sin at communion. If you believe abortion is an option, you ARE in a state of sin according to our faith and should not present yourself for communion. Not only is this an issue for the people who are in charge of our spiritual condition as a priest, it’s time we quit electing people who say “I’m personally against this, but…” and start voting what we KNOW to be what we are supposed to believe. --Sorry–that just slipped out…

Jesus separated people–he WAS polarizing-he made people uncomfortable. He drove the religious leaders of the day absolutely nuts. He drove people from the temple. He told people they had to obey the law and to live their faith. He told the rich young ruler what to do and watched as the young man walked away unwilling to comply with Jesus request. Not all were welcome, period. But, when the heart attitude was correct, He was first to forgive and welcome those same people who had previously grieved Him, generally with the admonition to “Sin no more”.

We have tried the soft touchy-feely approach to our faith to the point where we now have pot luck dinners for homosexuals sponsored by the diocese. We don’t speak out or educate the members of the parish from the homily and, consequently, the people in the seats do not KNOW what we really believe as Catholics. What we now see is that this soft approach, taken to the extreme, does not work. We have become lukewarm and tepid in our faith as a result. We will have to answer for our lack of action and our lack of determination to persist even doing the hard things. There ARE rules. It’s time we were reminded what they are and how we, as Catholics, should act in response to those rules. Either that, or quit calling yourself a Catholic. Please don’t be offended at this-no offense is meant. It’s only that you can call yourself a dog but unless you have fur, a tail, and a wet nose, you’re not.
 
I am a traditionalist and I agree with what you say here:
everyone is invited to the wedding feast, it is up to us to accept that invitation. for a priest to say we are “not welcome” is absolutely incorrect. it is correct to say that those not in a state of grace need to correct their situation before they can attend the banquet, but to say someone is not welcome or is not invited is incorrect.
From what you write elsewhere in this thread, it sounds like an explicit call to repentance and reconciliation would have improved your pastor’s homily. Maybe he assumed that those listening to him already knew that sinners can return to Holy Communion after a good confession.
 
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