you are not welcome here...

[Cinette]

Those are some pretty serious abuses. I can see why you left. I would have run away from that parish.

Referring to God as “she”, and advocating the ordination of women, might actually rise to the level of heresy.

You should write to inform the bishop of these things.

Also, one small correction. You were an “Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion”. The only “minister of the Eucharist” is a priest.

God Bless

Thank you for the correction

 

[CradleCath]

Why do you call it strong-arming?

I was wondering the same thing. Merriam-Webster defines “strong-arming” as ‘having or using undue force’. Nothing the priest reportedly said can be called “using undue force”. I would call his words firm & I’d LOVE to have a priest who felt this kind of passion about any of the sexual sins of today. Most won’t touch the issues of active homosexuality, artificial birth control or abortion.

I agree with the poster who said that, had this priest said, “Those who condone & support racism are not welcome at the Communion rail” …or those who support & condone hate crimes…or those who support & condone selling drugs to our junior high students, etc.,etc. The reaction of the OP & his “group” would have been quite positive. This tells me that it was NOT the attitude or the stern delivery of the priest…it was the message he gave about the sin of abortion.

 

[BSHoop96]

To me, talking about following the Church’s teachings on life and blowing up clinics in the same breath makes as much sense as linking nose-picking with global warming (though that’s been done).

I agree.

In other words, among although the very staunchly pro-life (appropriately staunch) people I’ve known, I’ve certainly never known anyone who would look at bombing clinics as anything other than lunacy.

The fact that you’re seeing some link there is a bit disturbing to me - though I’m sure you’re quite pro-life as you say, the other side’s propaganda may have had some subtle influence on you, hich is understandable.

It’s the other side of this “debate” that is not infrequently violent. Subscribe to lifesitenews.com for the straight story.

Oh Paul…sometimes you’re so funny. I wasn’t connecting anything. Just making an observation that no matter how right something may be there will always be some fanatic somewhere that will go overboard which only gives ammo to the opposition, i.e., pro-choice people can say really negative things about those darn pro-lifers blowing up those clinics again. Really just saying I don’t care for fanaticism no matter which end of the spectrum it comes from.

 

[palmas85]

I belonged to a Parish that I loved for a number of years. The priest’s homilies were excellent and he was an excellent organizer. Holy week was magnificent. He drew many people to the Church. My husband, who had been an athiest for all his life eventually came into the Church.

HOWEVER:

As time went by we became increasingly dissatisfied. Here are some reasons:

• I was a minister of the Eucharist and was disturbed that the consecrated “host” was a pizza bread. It appeared to be to be somewhat “folkloric”. The MOST disturbing thing was that there were crumbs and particles which got lost.
• The priest would say “Father/Mother God…” The Holy Spirit became a “she” in the creed.
• The female altar servers were not appropriately dressed - boobs and belly buttons exposed. I protested but was ignored.
• Inclusive language was encouraged. I have no problem with manhood, mankind and the like.
• The priest was in favour of women priests. In fact, a parishioner who was a nun went to Spain and was ordained - she is now a “bishop” and is ordaining other women.

My husband and I left that Parish of course. This priest is very popular. I saw some of the parishioners at a funeral and other ceremonies at a neibouring Church and they are very nice but I think they cannot understand why we did not approve of how things were done.

This is sad indeed.

It sounds as if the Priest is truly progressive and therefore right thinking. I am in awe with not only his insightfulness and political correctness but the shrewd way in which he used Pizza Bread for the Host. Remarkable and quite appropriate I might add since Pizza is the food of the people.

I am truly impressed with the fact that the priestess has been elevated to the level of Bishop. Could Cardnal be far off or maybe even…

The Papacy!!!:dancing: :dancing:

Just imagine the pride that we would feel referring to our new Pope Perpetua 1 as our Holy Mother:thumbsup:

Nothing at all wrong with boobs and belly buttons. Just look at Madonna:extrahappy: a truly fine example of Catholic womanhood.

I think you need to return to the Parish and get in on the ground floor of this thing, the new era in the Church.

You wouldn’t want to be left out in the cold now would you?

 

[BSHoop96]

It sounds as if the Priest is truly progressive and therefore right thinking. I am in awe with not only his insightfulness and political correctness but the shrewd way in which he used Pizza Bread for the Host. Remarkable and quite appropriate I might add since Pizza is the food of the people.

I am truly impressed with the fact that the priestess has been elevated to the level of Bishop. Could Cardnal be far off or maybe even…

The Papacy!!!:dancing: :dancing:

Just imagine the pride that we would feel referring to our new Pope Perpetua 1 as our Holy Mother:thumbsup:

Nothing at all wrong with boobs and belly buttons. Just look at Madonna:extrahappy: a truly fine example of Catholic womanhood.

I think you need to return to the Parish and get in on the ground floor of this thing, the new era in the Church.

You wouldn’t want to be left out in the cold now would you?

Oh my gosh…we shouldn’t be laughing about this…but I did.

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

I agree with the poster who said that, had this priest said, “Those who condone & support racism are not welcome at the Communion rail” …or those who support & condone hate crimes…or those who support & condone selling drugs to our junior high students, etc.,etc. The reaction of the OP & his “group” would have been quite positive. This tells me that it was NOT the attitude or the stern delivery of the priest…it was the message he gave about the sin of abortion.

What an EXCELLENT POINT!

This cuts right through the mounds of BS we’re wading through in this thread.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

The priest is protecting the Eucharist from sacrilige and is to be commended for that. Did he point specific people and call them by name? If not, all he did was say if you support abortion then you are in a state of mortal sin and should not go up for Communion. That is his duty as Pastor. When people aren’t allowed to recieve Communion then they should realize the change that needs to take place in their lives. Their lives should revolve around Christ and not the other way around.

I agree with that—let’s not take the Eucharist lightly!

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

Oh Paul…sometimes you’re so funny. I wasn’t connecting anything. Just making an observation that no matter how right something may be there will always be some fanatic somewhere that will go overboard which only gives ammo to the opposition, i.e., pro-choice people can say really negative things about those darn pro-lifers blowing up those clinics again. Really just saying I don’t care for fanaticism no matter which end of the spectrum it comes from.

Funny? How am I funny? I’m like a clown to you - I make you laugh? Please explain to me how I am “funny”.



There are people who mistakenly resort to violence in the arena of any cause. There have been far more acts of violence committed by animal rights activists, for example, than by pro-lifers.

 

[estesbob]

Or, what if he said you are not welcome at the communion rail if you engage in child porn, or beat your wife, or are a member of the Klan, or support drunk driving? Would there be a big critique of his tone or wording or anything else?

Exactly Especially if theypublicly acknowledged the above and also said there was nothing wrong with doing it I suspect they would be denied communion.

 

[BSHoop96]

Funny? How am I funny? I’m like a clown to you - I make you laugh? Please explain to me how I am “funny”.



There are people who mistakenly resort to violence in the arena of any cause. There have been far more acts of violence committed by animal rights activists, for example, than by pro-lifers.

Not funny ha ha. Well, maybe you are…I don’t know. But funny because I can make a comment, in this instance about fanaticism, and you are off and running…thinking way off the mark about what I was trying to say.

Let me say it again very simply. Something brought up in a previous post caused me to make the comment that I am uncomfortable with fanaticism no matter which end of the spectrum it comes from. Just commenting on fanaticism in general…geez

All of a sudden according to you in a previous post, I am being subtly influenced by pro-choicers. Then I explain to you…again…I was just making the comment about fanaticism in general and you now come back with: “there are more violents acts commited by animal rights activities than pro-lifers”…as if I’m even arguing the point???

I think I like you much better in your Medjugorje thread.

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

Not funny ha ha. Well, maybe you are…I don’t know. But funny because I can make a comment, in this instance about fanaticism, and you are off and running…thinking way off the mark about what I was trying to say.

Let me say it again very simply. Something brought up in a previous post caused me to make the comment that I am uncomfortable with fanaticism no matter which end of the spectrum it comes from. Just commenting on fanaticism in general…geez

All of a sudden according to you in a previous post, I am being subtly influenced by pro-choicers. Then I explain to you…again…I was just making the comment about fanaticism in general and you now come back with: “there are more violents acts commited by animal rights activities than pro-lifers”…as if I’m even arguing the point???

I think I like you much better in your Medjugorje thread.

Well, first of all, I completely mistook your tone - I thought this was light-hearted, and that we didn’t have any disagreement, but that’s not the case.

To recap, you commented that you’re strongly pro-life, but followed that immediately with a note that you don’t believe in blowing up clinics.

My reaction to that is that somebody who links these two things together to any substantial degree in their mind whatsoever has been influenced by our anti-life culture. I mean no disrespect whatsoever in saying this!

If you get your information about abortion and the pro-life movement from the general media, you are bombarded all the time with supposed correlation between anti-abortion sentiment and violence. It’s slipped into the debate in subtle and not subtle ways all the time. The problem is that it’s pure bunk.

If, however, you get most of your information about the debate and the politics from a source like lifesitenews, you realize, as I said, that not only the vast majority, but virtually anyone involved in the pro-life movement rejects violence completely - and that that is not true of the other side. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read of peaceful pro-life demonstrators being physically assaulted and threatened with worse.

So, you were just making a comment about fanaticism in general: why? Please tell me how & why your mind went from the topic of being pro-life in accordance with the Church to blowing up clinics. Maybe their is something in your line of reasoning that escapes me, but I see these two things about as related as baseball and wife-beating.

 

[Cinette]

It sounds as if the Priest is truly progressive and therefore right thinking. I am in awe with not only his insightfulness and political correctness but the shrewd way in which he used Pizza Bread for the Host. Remarkable and quite appropriate I might add since Pizza is the food of the people.

I am truly impressed with the fact that the priestess has been elevated to the level of Bishop. Could Cardnal be far off or maybe even…

The Papacy!!!:dancing: :dancing:

Just imagine the pride that we would feel referring to our new Pope Perpetua 1 as our Holy Mother:thumbsup:

Nothing at all wrong with boobs and belly buttons. Just look at Madonna:extrahappy: a truly fine example of Catholic womanhood.

I think you need to return to the Parish and get in on the ground floor of this thing, the new era in the Church.

You wouldn’t want to be left out in the cold now would you?

I am not impressed with your comments.

Despite all this I believe that there are many fine devout people who attend that Parish. I just hope that one sheep is not lost. :nope:

 

[palmas85]

I am not impressed with your comments.

Despite all this I believe that there are many fine devout people who attend that Parish. I just hope that one sheep is not lost. :nope:

It makes no difference if you are impressed or not. We can either sit and accept this sort of nonsence as being acceptable in the new all inclusive atmosphere that pervades many Parishes these days or we can show it for what it is.

Ridiculous nonsense.

I choose to point out that it is ridiculous nonsence.

As far as sheep getting lost, quite honestly, if you accept these practices as legitimate in the name of PC or whatever, then you didn’t get lost.

You left on your own.

Yes there may very well be good people in that congregation.

There are good people everywhere. The problem is that good devout people often sit and accept rather than trying to correct. Thats how we got into this mess in the first place.

 

[Cinette]

It makes no difference if you are impressed or not. We can either sit and accept this sort of nonsence as being acceptable in the new all inclusive atmosphere that pervades many Parishes these days or we can show it for what it is.

Ridiculous nonsense.

I choose to point out that it is ridiculous nonsence.

As far as sheep getting lost, quite honestly, if you accept these practices as legitimate in the name of PC or whatever, then you didn’t get lost.

You left on your own.

Yes there may very well be good people in that congregation.

There are good people everywhere. The problem is that good devout people often sit and accept rather than trying to correct. Thats how we got into this mess in the first place.

I agree with your last paragraph but I was not impressed with the tone of your previous post.

 

[BSHoop96]

Well, first of all, I completely mistook your tone - I thought this was light-hearted, and that we didn’t have any disagreement, but that’s not the case.

???

To recap, you commented that you’re strongly pro-life, but followed that immediately with a note that you don’t believe in blowing up clinics.

**My reaction to that is that somebody who links these two things together to any substantial degree in their mind whatsoever has been influenced by our anti-life culture. I mean no disrespect whatsoever in saying this! **

This is really insulting and I’ve really had quite enough of it. You have no idea to “what degree” I link anything or what I’ve been influenced by.

If you get your information about abortion and the pro-life movement from the general media, you are bombarded all the time with supposed correlation between anti-abortion sentiment and violence. It’s slipped into the debate in subtle and not subtle ways all the time. The problem is that it’s pure bunk.

If, however, you get most of your information about the debate and the politics from a source like lifesitenews, you realize, as I said, that not only the vast majority, but virtually anyone involved in the pro-life movement rejects violence completely - and that that is not true of the other side. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read of peaceful pro-life demonstrators being physically assaulted and threatened with worse.

So, you were just making a comment about fanaticism in general: why? Please tell me how & why your mind went from the topic of being pro-life in accordance with the Church to blowing up clinics. Maybe their is something in your line of reasoning that escapes me, but I see these two things about as related as baseball and wife-beating.

Paul, have you ever noticed that you have a habit of making a mountain out of a molehill??? Maybe you should work on that.

AS I ALREADY TOLD YOU, a previous poster stated (I’m paraphrasing here) that some people go overboard and let one issue completely take over their life. That made me think of fanaticism. Since we were speaking to abortion, I thought of people that had blown up some clinics since that is pretty fanatical. I made the statement that I didn’t like fanaticism going either way. That’s it. That’s all. Why are you trying to make my statement mean more than it did?

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

Paul, have you ever noticed that you have a habit of making a mountain out of a molehill??? Maybe you should work on that.

AS I ALREADY TOLD YOU, a previous poster stated (I’m paraphrasing here) that some people go overboard and let one issue completely take over their life. That made me think of fanaticism. Since we were speaking to abortion, I thought of people that had blown up some clinics since that is pretty fanatical. I made the statement that I didn’t like fanaticism going either way. That’s it. That’s all. Why are you trying to make my statement mean more than it did?

All I did was make what I thought was an offhand observation. I called it like I read it, said what I thought, meaning no disrespect. You’re the one who got excited, and then angry. I never insinuated that you meant something other than what you said - I looked for a root cause behind what you said.

I suggest there’s been more than enough discussion about it now.

[FYI, the poster you were referring to was talking about people that follow Church teaching, not ‘fanatics’, unless such are fanatics (which I know you don’t believe).]

 

[Cinette]

All I did was make what I thought was an offhand observation. I called it like I read it, said what I thought, meaning no disrespect. You’re the one who got excited, and then angry. I never insinuated that you meant something other than what you said - I looked for a root cause behind what you said.

I suggest there’s been more than enough discussion about it now.

[FYI, the poster you were referring to was talking about people that follow Church teaching, not ‘fanatics’, unless such are fanatics (which I know you don’t believe).]

I saw a movie yesterday with one of the very top American actresses whose talent is superb and all the films I have seen previously were impeccable.

This movie was terrible:

• She wore dresses showing her boobs
• The story line was really immoral and the entire movie was filled with immoral dialogue and it was a disappointment because young people watching the movie would think that the behaviour was totally natural. It was disturbing.

So when you speak up strongly about pro-life I must say that one cannot stress it enough. There are people who will say they are pro-life but in cases of incest and rape they would agree that abortion is the answer!! That is a problem because life is life and abortion is killing whether it is because of convenience, incest or rape. It is terrible for a young woman to fall pregnant as a result of incest or rape (or any woman for that matter) but it still does not make abortion ok. It takes courage and support to make the right decision. But abortion cannot never be condoned.

I say this because the media makes things ok when they are not. Sex is recreation, it is an entitlement…

I have been fortunate because I have a very good and loving husband. This is visible. Just yesterday a neighbour came up to me to say that he hopes that he and fiance can be like us - a loving couple with a loving family.

Sorry if I am off topic but I responded to your comments and it just reminded me that in life there are no compromises when it comes to what is good and bad. No matter how difficult:thumbsup: :dts:

 

[bilop]

So when you speak up strongly about pro-life I must say that one cannot stress it enough. There are people who will say they are pro-life but in cases of incest and rape they would agree that abortion is the answer!! That is a problem because life is life and abortion is killing whether it is because of convenience, incest or rape. It is terrible for a young woman to fall pregnant as a result of incest or rape (or any woman for that matter) but it still does not make abortion ok. It takes courage and support to make the right decision. But abortion cannot never be condoned.

I agree with you, all abortion is wrong.

But, we need to be careful not to alienate generally pro-life people who would allow some exceptions.

Don’t lump them with those who favor abortion on demand. They are our allies, and we need their help to first limit, and then eliminate abortion.

It drives me nuts when people conflate those who want to ban 99% of all abortions, to those who view abortion as a fundamental right. Especially when people look at opposing political candidates with those views, and say neither is pro-life so I won’t support either.

God Bless

 

[BSHoop96]

All I did was make what I thought was an offhand observation. I called it like I read it, said what I thought, meaning no disrespect. You’re the one who got excited, and then angry. I never insinuated that you meant something other than what you said - I looked for a root cause behind what you said.

Well you may think it’s fine to end it like this but I don’t. Maybe you should not be making “offhand observations” about how people personally feel in their own mind or judging what their root cause is. Whether you intend them to be insulting or not, they were.

After you made a reference to my being subtly influenced by pro-choicers you later said this:

So, you were just making a comment about fanaticism in general: why? Please tell me how & why your mind went from the topic of being pro-life in accordance with the Church to blowing up clinics. Maybe their is something in your line of reasoning that escapes me, but I see these two things about as related as baseball and wife-beating.

Now really Paul. I’m not supposed to find that insulting? Especially the last sentence. To make matters worse, when I told you why I said, it you argue that point!

[FYI, the poster you were referring to was talking about people that follow Church teaching, not ‘fanatics’, unless such are fanatics (which I know you don’t believe).]

Yes. He made a statement that he didn’t talk to people about abortion because it was a lightning-rod issue and it takes over some people’s lives or something to that effect. ** When he said “takes over people’s lives” my mind went not** to people like us…but to the extreme. Abortion clinic bombers. For some reason that seems to have really bothered you to the point that you started analyzing and picking apart my statement to the point where frankly, whether you meant to me or not, you were insulting. Then when I tried to explain…you threw gas on the fire.

I used the clinic bombing example because it is a perfect example of a wonderful cause (pro-life) getting a black eye from some nut who blows up a clinic and kills someone in the name of life. Which is why I hate FANATICISM on any side! It’s irrational.

Paul, you have written some excellent posts in these forums. But you really should think a little harder about attibuting reasons to why people say what they say, calling them like you see them, as you say, and then saying “gee, I meant no offense”. Sometimes you are "seeing " them wrong and you are offensive.

 

[Cinette]

I agree with you, all abortion is wrong.

But, we need to be careful not to alienate generally pro-life people who would allow some exceptions.

Don’t lump them with those who favor abortion on demand. They are our allies, and we need their help to first limit, and then eliminate abortion.

It drives me nuts when people conflate those who want to ban 99% of all abortions, to those who view abortion as a fundamental right. Especially when people look at opposing political candidates with those views, and say neither is pro-life so I won’t support either.

God Bless

Yes, I see your point