You are what you eat - Charity, The Global Food Crisis and The Environment

[dulcissima]

I’m by no means a PETA supporter, but is the fact it is from PETA mean it is automatically incorrect?

It means that it is propaganda. I pretty much tend to tune out propaganda myself since it tends to play fast and loose with the facts.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Oh, great… PETA has joined the board.

Jesus never condemned eating meat. The Church has never condemned eating meat. God told the Hebrews exactly which meats they could eat, and so approved the eating of meat.

I’ll go with those authorities, thanks. Human-caused global warming is an anti-free market hoax… and did you hear it’s on hiatus for a decade, anyway? We might even be back to the global cooling they were worried about in the 70s. I suppose if we’re facing another ice-age, we can eat the meat AND wear the fur!

I belong to PETA:
People
Eating
Tasty
Animals

I think there are major holes in the OP’s argument; in fact, I don’t see a defense, just a lot of stuff strung together to appear to be a defense. There are no cites for information quoted. The piece from St. Augustine- I fail to see the connection to meat production, starvation, fasting, and getting everybody everywhere something to eat. I don’t doubt the OP’s good intentions, but I would like to see a better presentation- with references.

And just how are we supposed to get the food we skipped eating by fasting to where it’s needed? And the OP lists his home as London, so the question is, do they not eat in the UK? Is every resident of the UK a vegan? Doubtful.

I think I’ll go make a grilled cheese sandwich…

 

[AmyS]

I know your intentions are good, but this

Do you realise that all the world’s cows produce as much greenhouse gas as all the world’s cars?

makes me think that we should eat more cows, not less. Maybe we should attach bags to their butts and harvest the methane gas for alternative fuel? Just a joke…

 

[geezerbob]

Read Isaiah 58 to find out what kind of fast is pleasing to God.

 

[Swan]

**As one called to till and look after the garden of the world (cf. Gen 2:15), man has a specific responsibility towards the environment in which he lives, towards the creation which God has put at the service of his personal dignity, of his life, not only for the present but also for future generations. It is the ecological question–ranging from the preservation of the natural habitats of the different species of animals and of other forms of life to ‘human ecology’ properly speaking --which finds in the Bible clear and strong ethical direction, leading to a solution which respects the great good of life, of every life. In fact, ‘the dominion’ granted to man by the Creator is not an absolute power, nor can one speak of a freedom to ‘use and misuse’, or to dispose of things as one pleases. The limitation imposed from the beginning by the Creator himself and expressed symbolically by the prohibition not to ‘eat of the fruit of the tree’ (cf. Gen 2:16-17) shows clearly enough that, when it comes to the natural world, we are subject not only to biological laws but also to moral ones, which cannot be violated with impunity.

–Evangelium Vitae, Section 42 (1995) - JPII**

 

[duskyjewel]

We can live within that by:

cleaning up the messes we make

responsible stewardship of edible animals

and humane slaughter of said animals

Also, many “famines” are caused by corrupt governments. Look at Ethiopia, and now Darfur. You have leadership purposely diverting food resources to starve a population they find undesirable. If free market economies and modern farming practices could be put in place, the “famines” would end within one harvest cycle.

 

[Island_Oak]

As with any movement, whether encouraging increased awareness to advocating significant life change, the key is always moderation and application of good judgment. As far as suddenly or radically adopting a vegan diet…I would advise caution. I was put on a vegan diet for health reasons several months ago. It was a disaster for me. I rapidly lost about 12 lbs. (I was not over weight at all) and was anemic and felt completely drained of energy and stamina. When my husband observed that my arms looked more like a broom sticks than anything that belonged on the body of an adult woman and friends approached me asking if I had cancer or was anorexic~that I put a quick end to those fun and games.

Do I think some reasonable modification of the American diet is in order? Absolutely. But to be honest with you I’d first start by examining all the frozen/prepared convenience and fast food (mostly carbs, fat and suger) we buy. We are not becoming diabetics and obese because of too many pork chops or grilled steaks. We snack endlessly and at all hours, portions are out of control and we don’t move nearly enough to work off what we consume.

One concept that is quite popular here is the promotion of locally grown food~whether its seasonal fruits and veggies or using the meats & fish that are native to a region~to cut down on transportation costs, to encourage small-scale/family farming and local markets, to reduce the need for refrigeration, storage, and preservatives.

 

[Swan]

As with any movement, whether encouraging increased awareness to advocating significant life change, the key is always moderation and application of good judgment. As far as suddenly or radically adopting a vegan diet…I would advise caution. I was put on a vegan diet for health reasons several months ago. It was a disaster for me. I rapidly lost about 12 lbs. (I was not over weight at all) and was anemic and felt completely drained of energy and stamina. When my husband observed that my arms looked more like a broom sticks than anything that belonged on the body of an adult woman and friends approached me asking if I had cancer or was anorexic~that I put a quick end to those fun and games.

Do I think some reasonable modification of the American diet is in order? Absolutely. But to be honest with you I’d first start by examining all the frozen/prepared convenience and fast food (mostly carbs, fat and suger) we buy. We are not becoming diabetics and obese because of too many pork chops or grilled steaks. We snack endlessly and at all hours, portions are out of control and we don’t move nearly enough to work off what we consume.

One concept that is quite popular here is the promotion of locally grown food~whether its seasonal fruits and veggies or using the meats & fish that are native to a region~to cut down on transportation costs, to encourage small-scale/family farming and local markets, to reduce the need for refrigeration, storage, and preservatives.

You are correct; radical diet changes can be a really bad idea. And any medical conditions must be considered. I have RA (rheumatoid arthritis) and have difficulty with most medications. I’m working on cutting way back on processed foods and meat to see if this helps.

It was only recently that I started giving much thought to the idea of where my food came from. Now that I am aware I try to buy locally. I live in Southern California so we have a good supply of fresh fruits and veggies pretty much year round. And we have a lot of farmer’s markets. I have to make an effort to get local dairy and I buy organic milk. Also free range, organic eggs (local). I try not to eat meat at a resturant very often and when I buy meat for home I get organic, free range. It’s expensive and we rarely have it. I always admitted that I was a hypocrite when it came to meat because if I had to kill it myself I’d never eat it. I’m finally getting around to cutting out almost all meat for that reason. My husband is into body building so we have no junk food in the house at all, though I at least sometimes indulge. Still, just cutting back on snacks, not getting that bag of chips and a soda - makes a big different in a lot of ways.

 

[Swan]

I’m posting this on the family life section because I think it’s important that people eat as a family and that there are many committed husbands and wives on here, who I hope to influence.

Do you realise that it takes 10lbs of grain to produce 1lb of meat?

Do you realise that all the world’s cows produce as much greenhouse gas as all the world’s cars?

Did you know that a vegan who drives an SUV does less damage to the environment than a meat-eater who cycles?

Did you also know that the Eastern rites of the Catholic Church go vegan for the whole of Lent and Advent, as well as several other fasts.

Did you realise that if everyone in the world was to eat the way Americans eat, we would need 5 planets to sustain us.

What I’m suggesting is a return to the old practice of fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays, and in particular, of going vegan for those days, perhaps adding Thursday as a particular “global food crisis day”. It’s surprisingly easy, and I did it for the whole of Lent this year. There are all kinds of healthy foods you can eat that don’t need any animal products, and that way you have 1/10th of the damaging effect on the environment and one another.

3 days without meat and milk, it’s really quite a nice break, and makes the food you eat in the rest of the week seem more enjoyable too.

Anybody want to join me?

Here’s a link you might enjoy: the Catholic Conservation Center. There is a lot of good info.

conservation.catholic.org/

I’ve almost completely given up meat and am working on processed food (giving it up, I mean). For years I tried to go vegetarian but I always made it either-or and failed. Now I try to “cut back” and it’s really worked - I only eat meat once or twice a week and then only a small amount at one meal. Sometimes you find yourself in a situation when a meat item is about all that’s available, so I’ll have a little something - but it’s an exception. I do eat eggs and dairy, though not much dairy. I need to get more calcium though as I’m perimenopausal (those calcium pills are huge!). Buy locally, go organic, eat what you need (with an occassional ice cream cone thrown in). It works for me (though I realize not everyone will find this to be the case).

 

[Teakafrog]

Has the environment become our God? Wake up!
You don’t fast to the save the environment.
If you want to be a steward of the earth, let it be because God created it. But as soon as you start to replace God with the environment itself, with global ecology, then all hope is lost–quite literally.

As a postscript, there really is enough food to feed the entire world. Food is not the problem… What’s the problem is injustice occurring on the political level. Countries too deep in unrest that their citizens can’t even get the care they need. If people were free, if leaders were accountable to their citizens, then there would be much less of a problem. And then, it would be a problem with foreseeable plans of action.

do you realize grass fed animals do not compete with humans for their food sources, and generally graze on land otherwise unsuitable for cultivation of food crops?

do you realize that waste runoff, pollution and energy use for agricultural production of food and cash crops dwarfs that produced by the world’s cars?

by all means restore fasting and abstinence for their unparalleled spiritual benefit to individuals and the Church, but not as some kind of “green” awareness day

Words of wisdom here (as usual from Annie ). Sure we should take care of world that God created, but all this environmental extremism is just a form of pagan earth-worship that puts the focus on the creation, not the Creator. There is plenty of food in the world, as was pointed out in the quote above. It’s all propaganda, just like the overpopulation nonsense that is meant to advance abortion, contraception, and euthanasia. None of that is from God, so where is it coming from? Pretty obvious to me…

 

[Ridgerunner]

I recall reading that plant eating animals generally have much longer and more complicated digestive tracts than do we. “Pure” meat eaters, much shorter. Those of omnivores, e.g., humans, pigs, bears, are of intermediate length so both meats and plants can be eaten. To try to “force” one’s digestive tract into a pattern for which it is not designed does not seem wise to me.

Still, it is up to the OP whether he wants to turn vegan or not. I just hope he does not impose it on children. Children have very high protein needs, and it’s terribly difficult to get complete proteins from plants with a human digestive tract.

It does not really require 10 lb of grain for every pound of meat, and nobody I have ever heard of does that. The rate of gain depends on a lot of things; the growing stage of the animal is a big difference. During fast growth, the rate is more like 3 to 1. It is only when a nearly mature animal is fed grain does it take 10 lb. In any event, much of the growth of a beef is gained on grass alone. It is only in “finishing” that grain is fed, for the most part. For years, grain was so cheap that it cost little to feed it. Now that it’s more expensive, it’s stupid to pour grain into them, and not many ranchers do it.

As Puzzleannie said, grass it totally indigestible to humans, and a large part of the world won’t grow grain, but it will grow grass. Even if you cook it, the cellulose binding of grass nutrients does not dissolve and you get no nutrition from it if you eat it. Cattle and sheep can convert cellulose to food. Getting rid of cattle or sheep would be a big net loss of food to the world.

In many parts of the world, grain growing is what people depend on. Those in the U.S. who adopt vegetarian diets are reducing that food supply overall, whereas if they ate meat they would not be competing with the people in the world who do not, or do so rarely. Argentinians eat even more beef per capita than Americans do. They do it because a lot the country is grassland that won’t grow anything else. If they didn’t eat meat, they would be in a terrible fix. Dwellers in vast tracts of the Eurasian steppes are almost totally dependant on meat, for the same reason. They couldn’t live there at all if they didn’t.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Having slept on it, this is what I took away:

• The OP has the best of intentions.
• The OP does NOT begin to present a convincing argument.
• The logistics of fasting in this case assume that which we do not eat, if we fast, will go to those who need it. That simply isn’t true. Corrupt governments, shipping, etc., make it not so. Further, it assumes that which we do not eat if we fast, those who are starving want it. There is enough food on the planet, but bad food distribution. It reminds too much of the time when I was seven or eight, and my mother told us to think about the starving children in Europe (yes, I’m that old), and eat our peas. She caught my sister and I trying to address a pea-filled envelope!

 

[DL82]

Oh, great… PETA has joined the board.

Jesus never condemned eating meat. The Church has never condemned eating meat. God told the Hebrews exactly which meats they could eat, and so approved the eating of meat.

I’ll go with those authorities, thanks. Human-caused global warming is an anti-free market hoax… and did you hear it’s on hiatus for a decade, anyway? We might even be back to the global cooling they were worried about in the 70s. I suppose if we’re facing another ice-age, we can eat the meat AND wear the fur!

There are references in early Syriac Christian texts such as the Liber Graduum to the idea that the Apostles lived on a diet of bread, leaves and herbs. This practice, called* is carried on by some monks in the East.

The very fact that abstaining from meat is considered a work of penance shows that it is an actively good thing. Penance doesn’t mean making yourself miserable, it means giving up something that, while not sinful, makes you more able to devote yourself to God. You can’t give up praying or give up wearing clothes as penance, because those things won’t bring you closer to God. Thus, while the Church has never condemned meat eating, and neither do I, giving it up from time to time can bring you closer to God. Same is true of alcohol and various other things that are not sinful in themselves.

I’m NOT advocating worshipping the earth or one another, but acknowledging with humility our place in the order of God’s creation.*

 

[ack]

I’m not entirely convinced of this. Food consumption in one part of the world can affect the food supply in other parts of the world.

For example, ethanol policies in the US caused corn prices in Mexico to skyrocket, resulting in last year’s “tortilla protests”. Was this crisis caused by Mexico’s policies? No, Mexico did nothing that would have caused this…the crisis was caused by increased consumption in the USA.

Or, what about today’s global food price crisis? Food is getting more expensive EVERYWHERE, not just in the US. The fact that this crisis hit everywhere at once is evidence that the food market is more globalized than you seem to believe.

The United States both imports and exports more than 50 BILLION dollars of food every year. Any food that we don’t consume translates into lower imports or cheaper exports, which gives other countries more to eat.

Of course, this doesn’t immediately translate into an argument to avoid meat, because of the possibility of feeding grass to cattle and leaving the rest of the food supply alone.

• The logistics of fasting in this case assume that which we do not eat, if we fast, will go to those who need it. That simply isn’t true. Corrupt governments, shipping, etc., make it not so. Further, it assumes that which we do not eat if we fast, those who are starving want it. There is enough food on the planet, but bad food distribution. It reminds too much of the time when I was seven or eight, and my mother told us to think about the starving children in Europe (yes, I’m that old), and eat our peas. She caught my sister and I trying to address a pea-filled envelope!

 

[gardenswithkids]

I’m posting this on the family life section because I think it’s important that people eat as a family …
What I’m suggesting is a return to the old practice of fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays, and in particular, of going vegan for those days, perhaps adding Thursday as a particular “global food crisis day”. …3 days without meat and milk, it’s really quite a nice break, and makes the food you eat in the rest of the week seem more enjoyable too.

It is important that people eat together as a family. Many here have young children, and young children are exempt from the Church discipline of fasting during Lent. I believe it would be wrong to impose fasting on my young children. You wrote about how adult monks fasted from meat for religious reasons, but children are not adults. Rather than fasting, I believe moderation is a better approach for families.

As you point out, animal protein is an expensive source of calories. For that matter, so is fresh fruit. We should eat foods in moderation. There may be appropriate times and seasons for fasting, but fasting is an extreme. The opposite of fasting is over-eating. Overeating and the resulting obesity is a great health threat in America. We need to practice moderation, not to go go overboard from one extreme to the other. Americans need to return to eating balanced meals together as families.

Some may not realize that family meals are becoming less common in America. Family members often eat alone, rather than together. I believe food is less satisfying when eaten alone, and that may contribute to the growing obesity problems in America and American children. The family is under-attack from many sources, and family meals can help strengthen and bond families, in addition to teaching children about proper nutrition and moderation. So, while many disagree with much of what the original poster wrote, I hope we can all agree with him when he wrote:

…I think it’s important that people eat as a family …

 

[Ridgerunner]

There are references in early Syriac Christian texts such as the Liber Graduum to the idea that the Apostles lived on a diet of bread, leaves and herbs. This practice, called* is carried on by some monks in the East.

The very fact that abstaining from meat is considered a work of penance* shows that it is an actively good thing. Penance doesn’t mean making yourself miserable, it means giving up something that, while not sinful, makes you more able to devote yourself to God. You can’t give up praying or give up wearing clothes as penance, because those things won’t bring you closer to God. Thus, while the Church has never condemned meat eating, and neither do I, giving it up from time to time can bring you closer to God. Same is true of alcohol and various other things that are not sinful in themselves.

I’m NOT advocating worshipping the earth or one another, but acknowledging with humility our place in the order of God’s creation.

Jesus, of course, would have eaten meat at the Last Supper, as well as bread and herbs.

 

[Sheeniac]

When you think about it, advocating to eat organic is bad for the poor. Our commercial techniques allow us to have a huge harvest and efficiently use the land. If we all ate organic, we’d need to increase our croplands by… well, I don’t know exactly, but a lot.

IIRC, organic doesn’t necessarily mean no fertilizers and/or no pesticides, but that they must be natural, and not man-made. That doesn’t mean that it’s not harmful.

 

[Asillia]

That’s why you need to do your research about organic places. But I agree it’s not the panacea that people make it out to be. But I think it can be a benefit too. I took a class on soils and the environment and there are ways to apply some of those principles on a large scale (sorry, I don’t remember all of them!) I think it is actually more important to buy locally, as I stated in a previous post. Luckily, I’m from Wisconsin and we have a HUGE farmer’s market every week so it’s very easy. It’s also organic, as it turns out. Buying an organic apple from New Zealand though, isn’t necessarily the best thing in the world when you consider all the transportation and storage costs that have to go into it.

Anyway, I really enjoyed reading the thoughts on fasting and such. I agree that a lot of the problems have to do with distribution and prices…but I really don’t know what the best way to solve it is. My grasp on economics is not so good, so I’m never sure how my choices are influencing those things (if they are at all). I try to buy things that are fair trade, etc (whenI can afford them) but it’s hard.

Buy locally, go organic, eat what you need (with an occassional ice cream cone thrown in).

• I like this though

Really, I think the most important thing we can all do*, regardless of how we feel about things like organic, vegetarianism, local food, fair trade, etc - is to just limit our consumption to what we NEED, and things that are healthy and nutritious, not empty calories. It really pains me when I see how much food people throw away.

Aside from the health and economic benefits, I think living simply is also a way to honor God and turn away from the excesses of this world, and its distractions.

*(Aside from things like prayer and all that )

 

[Al_Masetti]

There is another issue.

And that is “how to store food”.

Many places can only grow vegetables and fruit for a short part of the year. A short growing season means that food must be preserved for the winter and spring months.

Canning, freezing food and preserving food is an expensive, labor-intensive process and sometimes things do go wrong or sometimes the food runs out.

For example, if your freezer is full and the electricity goes off, you could lose all of it.

Or, if you dry fruit or legumes (beans, etc) and something causes moisture to get to it, then the food will rot. Wheat can be stored for years; however, it needs to be kept dry and preferably away from air.

Meat can be smoked, and no refrigeration is needed.

Which is how sausage came about. Salami doesn’t require refrigeration. Hams are cured in salt. That stuff will last forever.

Not everyone lives in situations where fresh food is available year round without reliable transportation, refrigeration, and preservation and storage. For that reason, a variety of foods, preserved in a variety of ways is needed.

In addition, some places just naturally are able to grow certain agricultural products. Some places have lots of fish. Other places just naturally grow lots of hogs or sheep. The local people get their income by selling / exchanging their surplus to other folks. And if the surplus items are of proper quality, their markets can be all over the world.

New Zealand exports lamb products everywhere.

On some of the plains of Australia and Argentina, cattle thrive in conditions that comestibles for human consumption don’t do well in. So those places export lots of beef.

Northern Italy grows a lot of rice.

I, personally, would not much care to be a fisherman in the North Sea between England and Germany or the Grand Banks off Nova Scotia in the North Atlantic or the Bering Sea between Alaska and Siberia, but there sure are a lot of fish there. And some folks earn their living harvesting those fish. [Have you seen the television program: “The Deadliest Catch”?]

The problem with proposing single solutions to a perceived problem is that the one size does not fit all. And the perceived problem may not be an accurate reflection of what is really going on.

Each place is different. Each culture is different. Each climate is different.

 

[Ridgerunner]

There is another issue.

And that is “how to store food”.

Or, if you dry fruit or legumes (beans, etc) and something causes moisture to get to it, then the food will rot. Wheat can be stored for years; however, it needs to be kept dry and preferably away from air.

New Zealand exports lamb products everywhere.

Aparently there are ways to store dry food and ensure that it won’t rot or acquire fungus or whatever. Some years back there were a lot of Mormons coming into this area (interesting story but not the topic). They had a belief that there would be a tribulation period and were “required” by their version of Mormonism anyway, to keep a year’s supply of food on hand. They got a lot of it, I understood, from manufacturers who prepare specially packaged and prepared foods. One of them told me that one of their own practices was to get these very large containers, fill them with wheat, rice, beans or things of that nature, then put some kind of inert gas in the container. I don’t recall what it was; helium or nitrogen or something perhaps.

It absolutely amazes me that N.Z. can export apples or lamb or any other food commodity all the way to the U.S. without transportation costs being prohibitive. Worldwide transportation must be a good deal more efficient than some of us suppose.