You can't prove it!

[The_Catholic]

I just don’t know how to talk to people. I did it the best I could, and for the first time ever I let him get the last word (what else could I have said, for do not cast your pearl before swine or they’ll rip you apart like dogs).

Anyway, an athiest friend of mine was saying how he was utterly lonely, and is so tired of it. I told him how wonderful God can be. Now we’ve argued about God before, but now he was very bitter. He also said that the idea of God is stupid, He cannot exist, He just cannot , it’s illogical. He was being very arogant, acting as if he is all knowing, that God simply CANNOT exist NO MATTER WHAT! God being Omnipentent, Omnipresent makes no sense nither, it can’t be explained. I just said that while science can’t prove beyond the shadow of a doubt God’s existence, niether can it disprove it. He thinks that’s silly. He said “what if I saw a spegetii monstor flying through the air, would that mean it exists?” I answered (perhaps this was my fault) You can’t compare the spegeti montstor with God. Mankind looks around at creation, the stars, the complexity of life, ever since the dawn of time, and ponders about a Creator, that makes logical sense. Why would one beging to sit back and ponder about the spegeti monster? What would the reason be? It seems like a childish statement to win an argument.

I understood his point, if you can’t prove there is a God, then you can’t prove there is a spegeti monster niether, and if one were to see it, then that doesn’t mean it exists, if one were to see a pink elephant, that doesn’t mean it exisits. He was comparing that to visons, all the times people have claimed to have spoken to God, His angels or the saints. i agree that not every single vision is probaly valid, but I don’t think every vision is invalid niether. …

 

[The_Catholic]

But many who see these visions are usualy right in the head, not phycotic, and they’re poor, humble, which makes it interesting as God seems to choose these kind of people.

I probaly mesed up my words, and he thought I didn’t understand his statement, but I did, I was just saying the idea of God is logical, completely different than the spegeti monster.

He said that my argument was poor because I can say whatever I want about God, that He can do anything because He’s God. He thinks God has to be molde dinto a box and has to apply to the law of physics and this realm as we do, but I said God doesn’t, He’s the creator, He’s unlimited, and he thought that was silly.

I’m terriblwe about getting my words out, but after awhile, when I told him his spegeti idea was silly, he shouted and shouted and shouted at me, horribly. I felt like I was being persecuted. Wow, in the old days I would have fought him in words, but now, since God has tamed me, conquered me, won me over, I just held down my head and took it. I probaly screwed things up, but I just wanted to show Him how awesome God can be!!! H

He is bitter toward God, very bitter, he even told me that if God were to appear before him, he still wouldn’t follow Him. And if god does exist then He’s evil. Everything’s God’s fault, and not his. I’m sorry, but that’s exactly why he’s lonely, and bitter.

It’s like one is in the Dark pit, cannot stand the torture, the poison of lonliness and hatred, then has a chance to step into the Light, God, but refuses him, and remains in the darkness, forver in bitterness. That’s how I think all men will be who are in hell, a state of bitterness, lonliness, but still not wanting God.

Please pray for my friend. I love him and feel so sorry for him.

 

[cranster]

I’ll pray for your friend. Terribly sad, and way to common in this age of supposed enlightenment.

 

[The_Catholic]

I’ll pray for your friend. Terribly sad, and way to common in this age of supposed enlightenment.

Way too common? You mean alot of people say similar things like him?

 

[The_Catholic]

I’ll pray for your friend. Terribly sad, and way to common in this age of supposed enlightenment.

oh and thank you

 

[GuanYuWarGod]

Alright that’s enough. From what I have read, you need more experience dealing with atheist objections. So do the following:

1. Go to Yahoo Answers.
2. Search out the Section for Religion.
3. Here you will find an entire boatload of people who hate you and hate the Catholic faith and ---- yes, atheists who seem to be a large percentage of this sections’ population. Not only that but you will also find many theists who are obviously dumber than car grease.
4. In short, since you have virtually no help, you will quickly get a VERY good grasp as to what people expect to hear as an answer since it revolves on “who’s - answer - is - the - best?”.

Trust me I turned devout after seeing all the hate geared towards Christianity.

 

[The_Catholic]

Alright that’s enough. From what I have read, you need more experience dealing with atheist objections. So do the following:

1. Go to Yahoo Answers.
2. Search out the Section for Religion.
3. Here you will find an entire boatload of people who hate you and hate the Catholic faith and ---- yes, atheists who seem to be a large percentage of this sections’ population. Not only that but you will also find many theists who are obviously dumber than car grease.
4. In short, since you have virtually no help, you will quickly get a VERY good grasp as to what people expect to hear as an answer since it revolves on “who’s - answer - is - the - best?”.

Trust me I turned devout after seeing all the hate geared towards Christianity.

What is it people will expect to hear from me?

And i’m sorry, I know I’m not smart, but just as athiests thinks people who believe in God are fools, likewise, “the fool in his heart says there is no God.”

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Personally, I would take a different approach. Admire their GREAT FAITH. It takes a LOT more faith to believe that the universe is the result of some great cosmic belch (they don’t like to answer “What went bang? How did it get there?” and questions like that) than to believe in a Divine Creator. Tell him you wish you had as much faith as he does.

 

[guanophore]

I probaly mesed up my words,

I’m terriblwe about getting my words out, but after awhile, when I told him his spegeti idea was silly, he shouted and shouted and shouted at me, horribly. I felt like I was being persecuted. Wow, in the old days I would have fought him in words, but now, since God has tamed me, conquered me, won me over, I just held down my head and took it. I probaly screwed things up, but I just wanted to show Him how awesome God can be!!! H

He is bitter toward God, very bitter, he even told me that if God were to appear before him, he still wouldn’t follow Him. And if god does exist then He’s evil. Everything’s God’s fault, and not his. I’m sorry, but that’s exactly why he’s lonely, and bitter.

It’s like one is in the Dark pit, cannot stand the torture, the poison of lonliness and hatred, then has a chance to step into the Light, God, but refuses him, and remains in the darkness, forver in bitterness. That’s how I think all men will be who are in hell, a state of bitterness, lonliness, but still not wanting God.

Please pray for my friend. I love him and feel so sorry for him.

I will pray for your friend, and for you, but you must realize that you are being effective here. People don’t get upset about things that do not matter. This amount of reaction is proof in itself that it is working. Remember that the battle is not your’s but God’s. You can plant seeds, but the HS does the work in the heart. It is your job to be a good witness, to give an account of the hope that is within you ,and to demonstrate the Love of God. Without faith, it is impossible to please God, andthose that come to him must believe that He is.It is not logic, but faith that enables one to connect to God. Our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers in the heavenly places. Go to Eph. 6 and put on your armor. Remember that it is spiritual forces of darkness that want to keep him away from God, and battle them on a spiritual plane. I think you did a great job!

 

[terri_fortner]

I just don’t know how to talk to people. I did it the best I could, and for the first time ever I let him get the last word (what else could I have said, for do not cast your pearl before swine or they’ll rip you apart like dogs).

Anyway, an athiest friend of mine was saying how he was utterly lonely, and is so tired of it. I told him how wonderful God can be. Now we’ve argued about God before, but now he was very bitter. He also said that the idea of God is stupid, He cannot exist, He just cannot , it’s illogical. He was being very arogant, acting as if he is all knowing, that God simply CANNOT exist NO MATTER WHAT! God being Omnipentent, Omnipresent makes no sense nither, it can’t be explained. I just said that while science can’t prove beyond the shadow of a doubt God’s existence, niether can it disprove it. He thinks that’s silly. He said “what if I saw a spegetii monstor flying through the air, would that mean it exists?” I answered (perhaps this was my fault) You can’t compare the spegeti montstor with God. Mankind looks around at creation, the stars, the complexity of life, ever since the dawn of time, and ponders about a Creator, that makes logical sense. Why would one beging to sit back and ponder about the spegeti monster? What would the reason be? It seems like a childish statement to win an argument.

I understood his point, if you can’t prove there is a God, then you can’t prove there is a spegeti monster niether, and if one were to see it, then that doesn’t mean it exists, if one were to see a pink elephant, that doesn’t mean it exisits. He was comparing that to visons, all the times people have claimed to have spoken to God, His angels or the saints. i agree that not every single vision is probaly valid, but I don’t think every vision is invalid niether. …

Read Mere Chiristianity by C.S. Lewis and if you cannot get the message to him from that book, then try to get him to read it. It shows God as the most logical explaination there could ever be. I mean seriously, how can you even argue for the nonexistance of something without first having some idea of what it is. Even a spaghetti monster. I imagine a spaghetti monster would be a blob of noodles with sauce dripping off it, and it goes around collecting spaghetti until it is the largest blob ever and takes over the whole world. I have some idea of what that could be so I can argue for its nonexistance. However, if God did not exist then how is it that we even have a clue that he might?

Another of my favorites is better safe then sorry. If I am wrong no big deal I lived a life of kindness and that feels good. But if he is wrong then he better watch out.

Another one I enjoy is we are the created ones, like characters in God’s book of existance. Do you think Harry Potter and his gang could understand in their existance the existance of JK Rowling?

Just a few but seriously get the book, it is really short and try to get your friend to read it. Maybe just a simple, “I cannot seem to find the words to explain this to you, but this really short book can. If after you read it you still think what you think then that is great for you, but do not, avoid reading it because you are afraid to know a truth that you never considered. Truth is always good, isn’t it? Maybe after you have read it you will better understand my views, and we cna talk without getting heated over this topic. I value your friendship and your opinion and I do not want to fight with you over anything. My faith tells me that I need to wait for God to pull you and be there to help if He calls me to it. Not to try to force you to accept something you are not ready to accept.”

Okay got a little winded, but I was thinking of what I would say to a friend of mine, and I have used alot of those words before, just in a different order.

Good Luck,

 

[misslollipops]

But many who see these visions are usualy right in the head, not phycotic, and they’re poor, humble, which makes it interesting as God seems to choose these kind of people.

I probaly mesed up my words, and he thought I didn’t understand his statement, but I did, I was just saying the idea of God is logical, completely different than the spegeti monster.

Please pray for my friend. I love him and feel so sorry for him.

It always helps to use God’s word to lead people into all truth.

Romans 1:18-22 (New King James Version)

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

 

[Pete_1]

I would’t argue with him, just treat him with love and respect, state your poni of view, lead by example, tell him when he sins and leave the rest up to God. Possibly God will allow your friend to come to him by your example.

Thats my experience debate just drives people further away.

 

[Pete_1]

Maybe you could tell him God loves him, and nothing can seperate him from God’s love. Maybe you could tell him that Although it may seem like God wills for his suffering, in reality it is the misuse of our free will that turns us away from God, and leads to suffering.

Possibly you could use the Garden of eden as an example, Adam and Eve disobayed God and brought suffering into the world.

Tell him God will forgive all he has done if only he will repent, for God the son died for his sins. If he is bitter maybe this will help, but it’s up to you, maybe ask your priest about it at your next confession?

Maybe you could tell him this, Christianity is not centered on proving how the universe was created using scientific methods, or proving the existnce of God, although these are parts of it.
Possibly you could tell him God created the universe, man turned from him. Despite this utter rejection of God, he sent his only Son to die for our sin, and the orginal sin of turning away from God.

Possibly you could say that the Christian faith is centered on the worship of Jesus and the God that sent his only begotten Son to die for us, even after we turned away from him. Not on explaining the origins of the universe, or prrofs for the existence of God Perhaps this will allow him to relalise the true meaning of the Christian faith and God’s love, and see that it is not God that is causing his suffering, as God will never forsake him.

 

[Gamera]

The Spaghetti Monster is an example used by atheist author Richard Dawkins in a popular book “The God Delusion.” Your friend didn’t make up the example; he either got it from Dawkins, or from someone who, in turn, got it from Dawkins.

The theist’s answer is, there is no evidence supporting the existence of the Spaghetti Monster, but there is abundant evidence supporting the existence of God.

 

[LilyM]

Way too common? You mean alot of people say similar things like him?

do a google on ‘Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster’ - and tell your friend that to tell you its impossible that God exists is ridiculous.

Even Shakespeare knew better - ‘there are more things in Heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy’ (as Hamlet says)

There are EARTHLY things that are mysterious and inexplicable - no scientist has been able or will ever be able to tell you everything there is to know about the love a parent has for a child or a husband for his wife, but these things certainly exist. By the criteria your friend uses to dismiss the idea of God, then love should be impossible too, but it ain’t.

 

[Mirdath]

Well, you can’t prove there is a God, but he in turn can’t prove there isn’t. You have faith in God, he has faith in not-God – equally dippy, from my point of view

Pete’s got some good advice. Arguing won’t make a convert, and no proof either of you brings in will convince the other. Lead by example, and see where that takes him. Even if it doesn’t miraculously lead him to faith, you’ve both done well for the experience.

 

[The_Catholic]

Read Mere Chiristianity by C.S. Lewis and if you cannot get the message to him from that book, then try to get him to read it. It shows God as the most logical explaination there could ever be. I mean seriously, how can you even argue for the nonexistance of something without first having some idea of what it is. Even a spaghetti monster. I imagine a spaghetti monster would be a blob of noodles with sauce dripping off it, and it goes around collecting spaghetti until it is the largest blob ever and takes over the whole world. I have some idea of what that could be so I can argue for its nonexistance. However, if God did not exist then how is it that we even have a clue that he might?

Another of my favorites is better safe then sorry. If I am wrong no big deal I lived a life of kindness and that feels good. But if he is wrong then he better watch out.

Another one I enjoy is we are the created ones, like characters in God’s book of existance. Do you think Harry Potter and his gang could understand in their existance the existance of JK Rowling?

Just a few but seriously get the book, it is really short and try to get your friend to read it. Maybe just a simple, “I cannot seem to find the words to explain this to you, but this really short book can. If after you read it you still think what you think then that is great for you, but do not, avoid reading it because you are afraid to know a truth that you never considered. Truth is always good, isn’t it? Maybe after you have read it you will better understand my views, and we cna talk without getting heated over this topic. I value your friendship and your opinion and I do not want to fight with you over anything. My faith tells me that I need to wait for God to pull you and be there to help if He calls me to it. Not to try to force you to accept something you are not ready to accept.”

Okay got a little winded, but I was thinking of what I would say to a friend of mine, and I have used alot of those words before, just in a different order.

Good Luck,/q

I own Mere Christianity (ha, actually just bought “the Great Divorce” yesterday) But my friend said to never speak to him about “religon” again. So I’ll have to wait until God opens the opportunity up.

 

[The_Catholic]

Well, you can’t prove there is a God, but he in turn can’t prove there isn’t. You have faith in God, he has faith in not-God – equally dippy, from my point of view

Pete’s got some good advice. Arguing won’t make a convert, and no proof either of you brings in will convince the other. Lead by example, and see where that takes him. Even if it doesn’t miraculously lead him to faith, you’ve both done well for the experience.

Ok, I know. Thanks

 

[The_Catholic]

The Spaghetti Monster is an example used by atheist author Richard Dawkins in a popular book “The God Delusion.” Your friend didn’t make up the example; he either got it from Dawkins, or from someone who, in turn, got it from Dawkins.

The theist’s answer is, there is no evidence supporting the existence of the Spaghetti Monster, but there is abundant evidence supporting the existence of God.

I just picked up “The Darkin’s Delusion” yesterday

 

[The_Catholic]

do a google on ‘Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster’ - and tell your friend that to tell you its impossible that God exists is ridiculous.

Even Shakespeare knew better - ‘there are more things in Heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy’ (as Hamlet says)

There are EARTHLY things that are mysterious and inexplicable - no scientist has been able or will ever be able to tell you everything there is to know about the love a parent has for a child or a husband for his wife, but these things certainly exist. By the criteria your friend uses to dismiss the idea of God, then love should be impossible too, but it ain’t.

Yes, the love is too, at least for him. His father beat him severly growing up and his mom barely cares for him. He thinks of God as just an old outdated silly idea like Zeus or Hercules.