"You don't need to go to Church to be religious"

[Canary47]

How would you respond?
I was told this by another friend of mine and instead of taking off with a rant I thought I’d post here and get some insight before responding to her in a later conversation (we often discuss religion).

…I hope this is the right place for this, if not, moderators please move.

 

[jmcrae]

How would you respond?

I would want to know how she defines “religious.”

To my way of thinking, religion is an outward expression of interior faith. Part of that outward expression involves assembling together with like-minded believers in Church.

My experience is that people who quit going to Church and say that they can be religious without Church stop being religious very quickly (because there are very few opportunities outside of Church to express one’s interior faith in an outward manner), and if they continue in that way, they eventually stop believing in God altogether.

 

[justinthemartyr]

I guess remembering the sabbath(new) day and keeping it holy no longer includes assembly with other Christians worshiping God and receiving the Flesh and Blood of Jesus Christ???

Wow, that is scary thinking. But this type of thinking is the nrom for those who want to live their lives in a manner which is not pleasing to God. the easiest way to keep something at arms length, is to criticise it, especially if you are not being obedient. “Ignorance is bliss” situation.

 

[Dauphin]

**

“You don’t need to go to Church to be religious”

**
Sure, but make sure to dress down. It can get pretty stuffy in hell.

 

[puzzleannie]

How would you respond?
I.

what is the meaning of religion? religion is the practice by man of returning to God what is His due, worship, adoration, highest honor and praise, thanksgiving, contrition and intercession.
How does one offer that duty in a way that pleases God?
By doing as He commanded, and worhipping Him in the way He has ordained for those on earth.
How may we know what that way is?
By following His own commandments about worship as revealed and handed on in Sacred Scripture and Tradition, and worshipping Him in the manner ordained by Jesus Christ on the night before he died, when he established the New Covenant, the new relationship between God and mankind, and therefore prescribed the duty of religion:
“If you love Me, you will keep my commands.”
That is relgion. Anything less, anything DIY is not religion–duty offered to God–but self-satistaction and self aggrandizement.

 

[He_Man]

How would you respond?
I was told this by another friend of mine and instead of taking off with a rant I thought I’d post here and get some insight before responding to her in a later conversation (we often discuss religion).

…I hope this is the right place for this, if not, moderators please move.

I’d simply say that statistically, the majority of the people who say this are simply lazy, prideful, immature, or all three. Then ask “which one are you?”

Also, have them define religious. It by definition means “ascribing to a certain religion,” so then follow up and ask which religion that is. Then go from there, quoting the tenets of that religion until they either agree, or stop liking you

 

[Pokedaughter]

The Scribes and Pharisees never missed church and we all know what Jesus had to say about them.

 

[ibkc]

I’d say that to be religious is to identify oneself with a specific belief system, and following a belief system necessitates contact with other believers. Otherwise, with no support, a person strays from the path. This was my own personal experience.

You can be a spiritual person without going to church. But also in my experience, the spirituality of people who shun the community of others tends to be prideful, self-serving and relativistic.

 

[jblake]

Canary47;:

How would you respond?

Do they mean “Religious” or “Christian”.

There are several religious denominations for which worship at home, by one’s self, is their way of adhering to their religious faith and observances.

The NT teaching is that one worship with other believers. (I’ll skip the debate about where that worship occurs.) Organizations that are either creedal, or have clearly delineated doctrinal theology, equate the church with a group of believers of which the individual is a part.

xan

jonathon

 

[Publisher]

I don’t attend “church”…I attend “meeting”. The church meets for worship. One of the Quaker witnesses is that buildings are not “church”…the people are the Church. “Going to church” is an odd statement for most Friends.

“Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” is something Friends very much believe…each First Day he is present among us.

Doyle Penrose was a Quaker artist in the 19th century, he painted a scene of Jordan’s Meetinghouse with Friends at worship and the “Presence in the Midst”.

It’s one of my favorite prints…I have it hanging in my dining room instead of the more traditional “Last Supper” by DaVinci.

One does not have to meet with others to be religious, but we draw strength from one another in the Presence…we sometimes receive vocal ministry as moved by the Spirit from those we worhsip together with.

If I am not able to attend Meeting, I “enter Meeting” alone at home…it still is a profound experience, but I do miss the Gathered Meeting.

 

[jmcrae]

The Scribes and Pharisees never missed church and we all know what Jesus had to say about them.

Yes, He said, “Be more perfect than these.”

 

[Valke2]

How would you respond?
I was told this by another friend of mine and instead of taking off with a rant I thought I’d post here and get some insight before responding to her in a later conversation (we often discuss religion).

…I hope this is the right place for this, if not, moderators please move.

I like to answer this question with “You may not need to go to church but your neighbor may need you to go to church for him or her.”

 

[charlesh]

I come across this attitude all the time. Usually I choose not to engage it because these people are usually hardened sinners who have rejected God and whose only intention is to rationalize their hidden immoral lives and habits. There’s nothing I can do for them, except say a rosary and try to be a good example. Usually that’s all you can do.

As far as responding, I would center my reply on the sacraments. I *need *to go to Mass because I need access to the sacraments and receive the graces that come through the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. If the person doesn’t know what that means, you can explain what the sacraments are, what they do, what grace is, how we cooperate with it and how it changes our lives, what the Sacrifice of the Mass is, etc. In regard to the Sunday obligation, I might also reply that the Church is our Mother and that our obedience to Her is an expression of our love for Her and for Christ. It is somewhat in the same vein as when Christ said, “He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me.” Hope this helps.

 

[Pokedaughter]

Yes, He said, “Be more perfect than these.”

Matthew 23:
:14*"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! "

:27*“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. 28*Outwardly you look like righteous people, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness."

Having a relationship with God through Jesus Christ and being Religious are contradictory in terms when talking about Western Christianity.

Also: Paul and Silas didn’t go to church in prison. David didn’t go to church in his cave. John the Baptist never went to church. lol. and I don’t think Patmos had a tabernacle.

 

[jmcrae]

Matthew 23:
:14*"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! "

:27*“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. 28*Outwardly you look like righteous people, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness."

Do you imagine that Jesus was asking them to reverse the situation and become religious on the inside, but lawless on the outside?

Having a relationship with God through Jesus Christ and being Religious are contradictory in terms when talking about Western Christianity.

I don’t even know what this is supposed to mean.

Also: Paul and Silas didn’t go to church in prison.

If you mean they didn’t leave the jail to go to a different building, no they didn’t, but they certainly assembled together for worship when they were in prison, as we see in the story of the converted jailer.

David didn’t go to church in his cave. John the Baptist never went to church. lol. and I don’t think Patmos had a tabernacle.

St. John was an Apostle; he probably said Mass every day. As to David and John, they assembled together with believers every time there was an opportunity to do so. David even wrote the sacred music (the Psalms) that were used in community worship, and St. John the Baptist had a congregation of hundreds of followers; he wasn’t out there in the Jordan baptizing himself, you know.

 

[ralphinal]

Do you need to follow the rules to play football?

I look at spirituality like a playground or park. Have you ever been to one? Imagine a park with an open field and some play equipment. Kids can play any way they want in the field, but the equipment limits them. Where are most of the kids? In line for the slide. On the swings. Merry-go-round. It seems like the limits on actions INCREASE the enjoyment. If they do choose to play in the field, how long does it take for them to play something with rules? Tag? Kick Ball? Humans need structure. God knows this. When we play together by the rules, we have more fun and all reach higher than before. Why does the high slide have the longest line? It only does one thing. Yet kids keep on doing it, over and over.

It only seems like adults lose focus on this and enjoy sitting alone in the field. No, we all need the swings and slides to make the park fun.

 

[irishmac]

Do you need to follow the rules to play football?

I look at spirituality like a playground or park. Have you ever been to one? Imagine a park with an open field and some play equipment. Kids can play any way they want in the field, but the equipment limits them. Where are most of the kids? In line for the slide. On the swings. Merry-go-round. It seems like the limits on actions INCREASE the enjoyment. If they do choose to play in the field, how long does it take for them to play something with rules? Tag? Kick Ball? Humans need structure. God knows this. When we play together by the rules, we have more fun and all reach higher than before. Why does the high slide have the longest line? It only does one thing. Yet kids keep on doing it, over and over.

It only seems like adults lose focus on this and enjoy sitting alone in the field. No, we all need the swings and slides to make the park fun.

:clapping:

Bravo, Ralph!

I truly enjoyed that analogy and I am in the process of saving that analogy to my mental “hard-drive.”

DARN, my “hard-drive” just crashed! :doh2:

 

[Pokedaughter]

Matthew 23:
:14*"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! "

:27*“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. 28*Outwardly you look like righteous people, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness."

"Do you imagine that Jesus was asking them to reverse the situation and become religious on the inside, but lawless on the outside?"

I don’t think God wants anyone to be “Religious” at all. Inside or out. Just because you** do** something doesn’t mean that is what you are. I can walk around all day with my bible in my hand and attend church everytime the doors open, serve in missions, and live a life a poverty, but if my intentions are not “pure of heart” it means nothing to God because I have no relationship with Him and if I have no relationship with Him there is no fruit in my life. No fruit means no Glory to God. I may have a pretty exterior but I am nothing but dead inside.

"St. John was an Apostle; he probably said Mass every day."
I am sure he talked to God non-stop or “without ceasing” and that is exactly my point. He was in Fellowship with The Father outside of a religious entity or building. (I believe he knew Christ more intimately than anyone else. Remember, he laid his head on Jesus’ breast during the Last Suppper. He personally heard the beating heart that would soon break for him. Wow! That absolutely blows me away. Sorry to get off track.)
Anyway, (lol) your statement proves the point that a person does not have to go to a “church” to be in fellowship with God. Religion does not equal Christianity or a Relationship with our Creator.

"they assembled together with believers every time there was an opportunity to do so"
Opportunity to do so…means sometimes there is not an opportunity thus it is not absolutely necessary to go to “church”…
David offered morning and evening prayers and sacrifices while hiding in a cave. He may have had empty hands but he had a full heart.

“Having a relationship with God through Jesus Christ and being Religious are contradictory in terms when talking about Western Christianity”
I would say it is necessary to go to “church” to be Religious, yes.

Religion, again, is not the same as living a Sanctified life (a Christian life)
So I guess we need to define Religion vs. Christianity

(Western Christianity is defined differently than being a “Christian” in like say…the Middle East. In the Middle East if you are not Muslim or Hindu you are called “Christian”)

"St. John the Baptist had a congregation of hundreds of followers; he wasn’t out there in the Jordan baptizing himself, you know."

John the Baptist may have had followers but that was not his intention. He was leading people to the Messiah… In a River… In the middle of Israel… In the open sky… lol. Not a church.

(BTW: I agree we should meet together in worship I am just offering an alternative viewpoint.)

So we need to define the terms: Church, Religion, and Christianity.

Is “Church” a religious institution or the Body of Christ (we, the believers)?

What is Religion and how does God feel about being Religious?

And what does “Christianity” really mean?

 

[jmcrae]

Matthew 23:
:14*"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! "

:27*“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. 28*Outwardly you look like righteous people, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness."

"Do you imagine that Jesus was asking them to reverse the situation and become religious on the inside, but lawless on the outside?"

I don’t think God wants anyone to be “Religious” at all. Inside or out. Just because you** do** something doesn’t mean that is what you are.

Well, I think what you do has a strong connection with what you are. If I say that I am an artist, but never make art, or if I say that I am a plumber, but never fix anyone’s water pipes, or if I say that I am a writer, but never get anything published, then am I really what I say I am? Or am I a fraud?

If I say that I am a Christian, but never do any of the things that Christians do, then how can I be considered a Christian?

I can walk around all day with my bible in my hand and attend church everytime the doors open, serve in missions, and live a life a poverty, but if my intentions are not “pure of heart” it means nothing to God because I have no relationship with Him and if I have no relationship with Him there is no fruit in my life. No fruit means no Glory to God. I may have a pretty exterior but I am nothing but dead inside.

And the way you fix that is by adding a sincere prayer life to all of the above; not by stopping doing all these other things, since all these other things are the fruit of the Christian life.

John the Baptist may have had followers but that was not his intention. He was leading people to the Messiah… In a River… In the middle of Israel… In the open sky… lol. Not a church.

A “church” is an assembly of believers. A building comes in handy, but it isn’t strictly necessary. When Pope John Paul II was a young priest in Communist Poland, his parish church was a mountain meadow where he and his congregation would meet in secret for Mass every Sunday.

 

[Righteousone]

How would you respond?
I was told this by another friend of mine and instead of taking off with a rant I thought I’d post here and get some insight before responding to her in a later conversation (we often discuss religion).

…I hope this is the right place for this, if not, moderators please move.

I would respond by saying that Jesus made a commandment telling you to do so.