You Must Know This Man

[MrS]

I am grateful for the faith to believe in God - the Triune God - the Creator of all … even the “prophet” of Islam.

By the way, my understanding of prophet is one who speaks the Truth. Jesus qualifies, Muhammad does not.

 

[Cubsfan]

Faith101:

We believe that God, through mercy and not death, will save those He chooses from the hell fire

Is this not what Christians do? Like you said, Christ died.

Christ has died
Christ has risen
Christ will come again.

I encourage you to explore the Catholic faith and come in from the infidelity.

 

[hlgomez]

The earliest Life of Muhammad of which we have any trace was written by Muhammad Ibn Ishaq, who died in 768 C.E. i.e., one hundred and thirty years after the death of the Prophet. The book of Ibn Ishaq, however, has perished, and all we know of it is what is quoted from it (and these quotations are fortunately considerable) in the works of later writers, particularly Ibn Hisham and al-Tabari. This work of Ibn Ishaq, in addition to being the earliest known attempt at biography, has a further importance in that, whether because the writer was somewhat of a free thinker, or because he had not come under the influence of later idealizing tendencies, his work contains very much information of a character that is distinctly unfavorable to the Prophet. To quote Dr. Margoliouth:

The character attributed to Muhammad in the biography of Ibn Ishaq is exceed&shyingly unfavorable. In order to gain his ends he recoils from no expedient, and he approves of similar unscrupulousness on the part of his adherents, when exercised in his interest. He profits to the utmost from the chivalry of the Meccans, but rarely requites it with the like. He organizes assassinations and whole-sale massacres. His career as tyrant of Medina is that of a robber chief, whose political economy consists in securing and dividing plunder, the distribution of the latter being at times carried out on principles which fail to satisfy his followers’s ideas of justice. He is himself an unbridled libertine and encourages the same passion in his followers. For whatever he does he is prepared to plead the express authorization of the deity. It is, however, impossible to find any doctrine which he is not prepared to abandon in order to secure a political end. At different points in his career he abandons the unity of God and his claim to the title of Prophet. This is a disagreeable picture for the founder of a religion, and it cannot be pleaded that it is a picture drawn by an enemy; and though Ibn Ishaq’s name was for some reason held in low esteem by the classical traditionalists of the third Islamic century, they make no attempt to discredit those portions of the biography which bear hardest on the character of their Prophet. (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, volume 8, p. 878.)

Be prepared for the wave of counter-attacks…

Pio

 

[hlgomez]

And again in the “Life of Saint Juliana,” written about 1200 C.E., we are told of the Emperor Maximinius of Rome that he was “heinde and heriende hedhene mawmets with unmedh muchel hird and unduhti duhedhe.” Among the ecclesiastical writers of the period, however, Muhammad was looked on as the arch heretic, a second Arius, worse than the first, and his legend was molded on that of the great legendary heretics, Simon Magus and the Deacon Nicholas.

Renan points to the reason in his article in the Atti della Academia dei Lincei, for 1889, where he writes: “In popular writings, there have been added atrocious calumies designed to cover with ignominy the author of the great evil that Christianity wished to suppress at all price”. That there were noble exceptions, however to this almost universal ignorance and misrepresentation can be seen from the cases of such men as Petrus Venerabilis, who died in 1157, and the fragments of whose polemic have been published by Thoma (“Zwei Bücher gegen den Muhammedanismus” [Two Books Against Muhammadanism], Leipzig, 1896), and the Dominican monk Ricoldus, who died in 1320, and whose “Confutatio Alcorani,” which so impressed Martin Luther, shows an unusually accurate acquaintance with the subject.

 

[hlgomez]

At Medina he was what one might justly call a robber chief… When he entered Mecca he entered it as a political leader rather than as a religious prophet, and was recognized by the Meccans as such. His dealings with Jews and Christians were largely dictated by political considerations: he dealt with the pagan tribes as a sovereign and his whole attitude to the surrounding empires was that of a statesman. “The fact of primary importance in the rise of Islam is that the movement became considerable only when its originator was able to draw the sword and handle it successfully.” So in endeavoring to estimate the significance of Muhammad, we must not judge him as a mystic or religious reformer though he may have had elements of both but rather as a statesman faced with peculiar pressing political problems among a somewhat barbarous people and at a critical moment in history.

A similar view is held by the Italian scholar Leone Caetani, though we are unfortunate in not having in our hands his complete picture of the Prophet. In the first and second volumes of his monumental “Annali dell’ Islam” (Milan, 1905-l907), and in the third volume of his “Studi di Storia Orientale” (Milan, 1914), we have, however the outlines of his treatment. Caetani holds that the great outburst, which sent Arab armies out in conquest of the surrounding fertile lands, is only the latest of a series of similar outbursts of Semitic peoples which in historical times have been disgorged by Arabia, due to the economic stress consequent on the gradual desiccation of Arabia. Muhammad thus becomes the leader of this movement, religious, if you will. according to the ideas of religion in Arabia at that time, but above all a politician and an opportunist.

 

[hlgomez]

The most recent attempt at providing us with a point of view for the interpretation of Muhammad’s life and teaching is that in Richard Bell’s Gunning Lectures before the University of Edinburgh, “The Origin of Islam in its Christian Environment” (London, 1926).

Bell’s work is only a preliminary study; he bases himself entirely on the Koran, taking no account of tradition or Sira, and he thinks that from the Koran itself we can find the main principles which will later guide us through the maze of Tradition. Bell thinks the problem is in the fact that a little before the coming of Muhammad, Arabia had become permeated with new ideas of religion, partly from Jewish, but mostly Christian sources, working into Arabia from three directions, downward from Syria to the northwest from Mesopotamia to the northeast and upwards from Abyssinia through South Arabia.

One proof of this is that almost all his religious vocabulary is borrowed from either Ethiopic or Syriac, even Jewish terms and practically all Persian religious terms coming through the Syriac. Thus Allah, Koran, Furqan, Salawat, Jahannam, Janna, Firdaus, Zakat, Din, etc., are all words of this origin, and the great figures that move through the Koran - Ibrahim, Junus, Musa, 'Isa, Idris are all of Syriac origin.

 

[hlgomez]

Muhammad was in contact with this new world of religious ideas, at first only in so far as it had become Arabicised before his time, but later with Jewish and Christian Sources themselves, and Bell claims that in the Koran itself we can see him gradually acquiring more and more information about these religions, particularly about Christianity, and developing his teaching pari passu with his increasing knowledge. Thus in the early Suras we find his religious vocabulary confined to that which can be illustrated from the early poets; words, i.e., that had been naturalized in Arabic before he came. In this early period we find very little about the Prophets or the cult of the great religions. Afterwards he learns and uses new religious terms borrowed from Christian and Jewish sources, and begins to talk about the Prophets. At this time he apparently did not know that Jews and Christians were not one people. Later he does find this out and his language changes immediately.

So Bell would interpret him not as a mystic, nor an apoplectic, nor a pathological case of any kind. A politician, yes, but of a religious nature, who was grieved at the lack of religion among his people, and conceived his mission to be to give to the Arabs such a message as the Prophets had given to the great nations surrounding them.

This certainly provides us with a promising starting point, one that seems better than any so far suggested to fit the facts that appear from the Koran, and it may be that the application of Bell’s suggestion may provide us with the clue for getting back, at least as far as we can expect, in our quest for the historical Muhammad.

The conclusion from this brief survey would seem to be that we have perhaps yet to wait for further research to be done among the early sources and for further discussion to allow a certain crystallizing of opinion as to where sound foundations can be laid, before anything much can be attempted further at biographical reconstruction.

It is worthy of note, however, that the scholars who are most familiar with Arabic sources and have got closest to an understanding of the life of the period, scholars such as Margoliotith, Hurgronje, Lammens, Caetini, are the most decisive against the prophetic claims of Muhammad, and one must confess that the further one goes in one’s own study of the sources the more difficult it becomes in one’s own thinking to escape the conclusions of these scholars.

Pio

 

[Faith101]

hawk:

It is true islam is extremely simple and logical.

Can I ask you a question?

If this life is a test for us, and God is omniscient.

Why does God bother testing us? He can pass judgement immediately since He already knows what we will do in our lives.
Infact He determines what we will do in divine predestiny.

So my rejection of Islam (the faith of my childhood) is because of Allah, my acceptance of Catholocism is once again because of Allah.

Simple and logical isn’t it?

But if you want to really answer these questions, to my knowledge only Catholocism is the Truth.

We are given free will. This is what we are told. That whatever good we do comes from us and whatever eveil we do comes from us. Thats that.

In terms of God knowing…ofcourse He knows what we will do…He’s GOD! Are you saying God doesnt know what we will do tomorrrow?

The purpose of life is to worship God.

 

[Faith101]

Low?? Perhaps it is more of a case that the truth hurts!!

I’m not going to reply. May God guide you.

All glory, honor, & praise be to Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God the Father, both now, & forever more. Amen.

All glory, honor and praise be to GOD, the only ONE, who neither begets nor is begotten, both now and forever more. Ameen

 

[Zooey]

Faith101:

I’m not going to reply. May God guide you.

He has. He does. His Name is Jesus Christ, the Name at Which every knee shall bow, every tongue confess, that He is the Lord God of all creation.
God bless you & lead you to the only Saviour.

 

[Faith101]

Zooey:

He has. He does. His Name is Jesus Christ, the Name at Which every knee shall bow, every tongue confess, that He is the Lord God of all creation.
God bless you & lead you to the only Saviour.

Actually JESUS’s knee didnt bow down to himself. He bowed down to GOD.

worship the one who is bowed down TO, not the one who bows down.

 

[But_for_Grace]

Faith101, arguing like this is not helping. Someone says Glory and praise to Christ, you correct it, and we go back and forth learning nothing and merely upsetting each other.

we would be better served if you took some time to respond to the allegations which hlgomez raised about Muhammed’s character.

God Bless

 

[Booklover]

WHO IS JESUS CHRIST?

He was born in an obscure village the child of a peasant woman.
He grew up in still another village, where he worked in a carpenter shop until he was 30. Then for three years he was an itinerant preacher.
He never wrote a book.
He never held an office.
He never had a family or owned a house.
He didn’t go to college.
He never traveled 200 miles from the place where he was born.
He did none of the things one usually associates with greatness.
He had no credentials but himself.
He was only 33 when public opinion turned against him.
His friends ran away.
He was turned over to his enemies and went through the mockery of a trial.
He was nailed to a cross between two thieves.
While he was dying, his executioners gambled for his clothing, the only property he had on earth.
When he was dead, he was laid in a borrowed grave through the pity of a friend.
Twenty centuries have come and gone,and today he is the central figure of the human race, the leader of mankind’s progress.

All the armies that ever marched, all the navies that ever sailed, all the parliaments that ever sat, all the kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man on earth as much as that One Solitary Life.

 

[Faith101]

Booklover:

WHO IS JESUS CHRIST?

He was born in an obscure village the child of a peasant woman.
He grew up in still another village, where he worked in a carpenter shop until he was 30. Then for three years he was an itinerant preacher.
He never wrote a book.
He never held an office.
He never had a family or owned a house.
He didn’t go to college.
He never traveled 200 miles from the place where he was born.
He did none of the things one usually associates with greatness.
He had no credentials but himself.
He was only 33 when public opinion turned against him.
His friends ran away.
He was turned over to his enemies and went through the mockery of a trial.
He was nailed to a cross between two thieves.
While he was dying, his executioners gambled for his clothing, the only property he had on earth.
When he was dead, he was laid in a borrowed grave through the pity of a friend.
Twenty centuries have come and gone,and today he is the central figure of the human race, the leader of mankind’s progress.

All the armies that ever marched, all the navies that ever sailed, all the parliaments that ever sat, all the kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man on earth as much as that One Solitary Life.

And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;

So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. (Quran 19:31-34)

 

[Reuben_J]

hady:

YOU MUST KNOW THIS MAN
MUHAMMAD
(May peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him)
You may be an atheist or an agnostic; or you may belong to anyone of the religious denominations that exist in the world today. You may be a Communist or a believer in democracy and freedom. No matter what you are, and no matter what your religious and political beliefs, personal and social habits happen to be - YOU MUST STILL KNOW THIS MAN!

He was by far the most remarkable man that ever set foot on this earth. He preached a religion, founded a state, built a nation, laid down a moral code, initiated numberless social and political reforms, established a dynamic and powerful society to practice and represent his teachings, and completely revolutionized the worlds of human thought and action for all times to come.

HIS NAME IS MUHAMMAD, peace and blessings of Almighty God be upon him and he accomplished all these wonders in the unbelievably short span of twenty-three years.

Great eulogy.

But sorry, I just feel like laughing. No harm meant to Mohammad, though.

How about Jesus? He did it for about 3 years, and now we have about 1.2 billion people calling His name in their lives.

Peace to you.

Reuben

 

[Zooey]

Booklover:

WHO IS JESUS CHRIST?

He was born in an obscure village the child of a peasant woman.
He grew up in still another village, where he worked in a carpenter shop until he was 30. Then for three years he was an itinerant preacher.
He never wrote a book.
He never held an office.
He never had a family or owned a house.
He didn’t go to college.
He never traveled 200 miles from the place where he was born.
He did none of the things one usually associates with greatness.
He had no credentials but himself.
He was only 33 when public opinion turned against him.
His friends ran away.
He was turned over to his enemies and went through the mockery of a trial.
He was nailed to a cross between two thieves.
While he was dying, his executioners gambled for his clothing, the only property he had on earth.
When he was dead, he was laid in a borrowed grave through the pity of a friend.
Twenty centuries have come and gone,and today he is the central figure of the human race, the leader of mankind’s progress.

All the armies that ever marched, all the navies that ever sailed, all the parliaments that ever sat, all the kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man on earth as much as that One Solitary Life.

 

[allhers]

Jesus is God, in the flesh (the Incarnation), God made man, the second Person of the Holy Trinity, God the Father, God the Son(Jesus)and God the Holy Spirit, Three in ONE, Jesus was born of woman, therefore He has two natures, Divine, and Man. He was born, suffered, died and ROSE AGAIN, - all for love of us. God never dies, He lives!! Always was, always will be-Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.

This verse in the Holy Bible may help some: from John 14:1
Do not let your hearts be troubled. You have faith in God, have faith also in me.

We all love God, some of us love Him as the God/Man, Jesus too!(and as God, the Holy Spirit), do not let your hearts be troubled.

God is love, and he who abides in God, abides in love.

As the Cathechism of the Catholic Church tells us, Christ died out of love for us, while we were still “enemies.” The Lord asks us to love as he does, even our enemies, to make ourselves the neighbor of those farthest away, and to love children and the poor as Christ himself. As the Apostle Paul said, “charity is patient, and kind, charilty is not jealous or boastful; it is not irritable or resentul; it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Charity bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” If I…have not charity, I am nothing. Whatever my priviledge, service, or even virtue, if I …have not charity, I gain nothing. Charity is superior to all the virtues. It is the first of the theological virtues: "So faith, hope, charity abide, these three. But the greates of these is charity(love). Charity upholds and purifies our human ability to love, and raises it to the supernatural perfection of divine love.

 

[Hashi_Al-Eritre]

hawk:

It is true islam is extremely simple and logical.

Can I ask you a question?

If this life is a test for us, and God is omniscient.

Why does God bother testing us? He can pass judgement immediately since He already knows what we will do in our lives.
Infact He determines what we will do in divine predestiny.

So my rejection of Islam (the faith of my childhood) is because of Allah, my acceptance of Catholocism is once again because of Allah.

Simple and logical isn’t it?

But if you want to really answer these questions, to my knowledge only Catholocism is the Truth.

Hi Hawk,
I will try to reply to most of your comments:

About why God tested us, this is one of the most beautiful aspects of Islam that is not present in Christianity (or atleast not in the same fashion as that of Islams). Both christianity and islam belief God knows past, present, and future, and decrees all by His Wisdom and Knowledge. But christanity believe everyone has a sin born with them that goes all the way back to Adam, so Jesus/God had to sacrifice himself for the sins of mankind, and this is how he showed his mercy. So if they embrace christ, they are saved. In Islam however there is no such concept of original sin, but rather Adam was forgiven by God, and even if he wasnt, it wouldnt matter because every human is born sinless anyways because of the simple fact he didnt do any sin to begin with, and it doesnt matter what their ancestors did or Adam did, because in Islam a soul will only be accountable for their own actions, whether good or bad. And the way of removing a major sin from ones record is to feel remorse and repent from that sin and have the intention never to do it again. If one does that they are forgiven by God because God has said he would, and He is All-Merciful. If a human dies with major sins without repenting from them, then he is under the Will of God, if He chooses he will forgive him by His mercy, or He will punish him by His justice.

This is the test God has created human beings for, to see who would choose obedience and worship to Him alone and to see who would choose disobedience and associating worship to other than Him. Everyone is held responsibile for their actions, and they all know exactly how to rectify their actions. Yes, God knows everything that will happen, but do we know? No we dont. And does God knowing everything prevent us from choose either righteousness or evil? Ofcourse not, we all have the ability and the choice of good or bad, obedience or sin, and righteousness or evil.

God says in the Quran:
“Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, “We believe”, and that they will not be tested? We did test those before them, and Allah will certainly know those who are true from those who are false.” [Surah Al-Ankaboot, “The Spider”, Verses 2 and 3]

And when you consider Islam’s simple way of how it looks at our nature (as ive outlined above), it is soo natural, makes complete sense. Nothing complicated about it.

Everyone will have their own belief of what is true, if i say Islam is true, it really doesnt matter what my opinion is about Islam cause thats just my opinion. What really matters is the evidence and proofs one finds in the understanding and text of the actual religion so that they may judge between them.

Lets assume for example, about an indiviudual who was not exposed to any sort of religions or beliefs with regards to God and the Unseen, and then decided to do a real search of what religion is the truest in its understanding and beliefs and teachings. So he goes about researching the different religions without any sort of partisanship or favourtism or preferences to any, but rather just accepting the one that he finds to the clearest, truest and least contradictory in its beliefs and understanding. The question is which religion would that person end up accepting?

in reply to but for grace, I dont believe athiesm is simpler to understand. The Most outragious belief to me is to think God doesnt exist, as if everything came from nothing. And besides a very small percentage of people in the world are athiest, and rightly so when you consider how utterly outragious it is to deny a Creator.

 

[r.gonzales]

hlgomez:

To quote Dr. Margoliouth:

most of margoliouth’s doubts have been replied to by prof. muhammad mohar ali in his book, “sirat al-nabi and the orientalists”.

for those interested, i suggest you try to get a hold of this 2 vol. book: bargainvillage.com/isbn_996077077X.htm.

 

[allhers]

Jesus said, I am the way,the truth and the life. When we study our faith, (being a Catholic)we are studying God. I believe that Jesus, being God the Son, IS the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Just as He said.