Ask Eucharisted what he loves more, wisdom or the sound of his own voice, and he will inevitably say the sound of his own voice, for, if he loved wisdom more, he wouldn’t post such tripe. Or at least he wouldn’t be so sophomoric as to leave his rantings unsubstantiated. Or at the very least he would act as if he had been Eucharisted.
The big problem hear is that the OF Mass is “VERY RARELY” celebrated properly. I will never forgive the clergy who changed the OF Mass from the Tridentine Mass. The Tridentine Mass should be the OF Mass. Their isn’t two forms of the same rite in the East, is there?. No there isn’t. Separate Liturgies “Chrysostom and Basil”, both very reverent. But not two forms of the same liturgy.
And I guess the 60’s priests didn’t lash out against the Traditional Mass, and Church, when it destroyed the statues, removed altar rails, changed the theology of the Mass. Deepening in faith. Huh!. That is why churches are closing, Europe is becoming Atheistic. Islam is becoming the dominant religion in western Europe. Open your eyes!.
What, exactly, is a liberal Catholic?
There’s no such thing. Liberal and Conservative don’t apply to Religion. Your either Contemporary (different from a Modernist which would be heretical. A contemporary would for example say the Ave or the Pater in the vernacular, or would attend the OF of the mass, would incorporate the luminous mysteries, but still hold to the essential Theology, using versions of the Bible such as the NRSV or NAB. None of these things are bad, they are all Noble and Pious Catholic customs). Or you are Traditional (example would be EF mass, praying in Latin, fasting for 3 hours or at Midnight before Communion, Using Bibles such as the D-R or Jerusalem (not New) but again holding to the Theology).
It was the sheer hatred for tradition such as this poster has demonstrated that led directly to the removal of altar rails, destruction of altars and statues and relegated such devotions as the rosary to a back room somewhere. In their quest to become relevent and modern anything and everything traditional was thrown out and sneered at by people such as this poster. There was no time to even remember what the Church had been. The Old Mass was gone and good riddance. The Old Church was gone and good riddance Now and only now could the real work begin:thumbsup:. Whatever that was
.It is not hypocrisy and self-righteousness to hold fast to the traditions and customs that have been handed down to us throughout the centuries. It is not wrong to believe what has been believed always, everywhere, and by all. On the contrary, it is very Catholic.
There would be nothing to attack if priests and bishops would actually obey the Second Vatican Council concerning the Liturgy and observe the rubrics of the Ordinary Form. Is that really so much to ask?
Pope Paul VI spoke of the “smoke of Satan” having entered the Church and Pope John Paul II talked about a “silent apostacy”. Pope Benedict XVI has long envisioned the current “reform of the reform” because he saw what the liturgy had become; banal and centered on man. It seems to be the rest of the Church that’s living in la-la land. The traditionalists are the small minority that keep saying “YES, yes Holy Father, we see what you are talking about”.
Again, perhaps if the majority of priests and bishops would obey the Council and observe the rubrics, we wouldn’t have a problem. It is because traditionalists love our Lord that they wish to worship Him with reverence and solemnity. When I attend a novus ordo Mass, I don’t see a whole lot of people joyously doing anything. For most people it seems to be a chore to go to Mass and they put as little effort as possible into attending. It’s funny because we think that since the people have more responses and hand motions in the OF that they know more about what’s going on. Blah! I guarentee you the majority of adults that go to a typical OF Mass couldn’t explain the basics of why we do what we do. A five year old from a traditional parish, OTOH, has already been well trained in the Baltimore Catechism and could probably give a very simple but completely accurate understanding of the Mass.
I would like an example of one aspect of true doctrinal development that came from the Council that traditionalists reject. However, I can think of a whole bunch of erroneous interpretations of the Council that any decent Catholic should reject.
I agree that we should never “speak ill” of the Holy Father and certainly we must not reject him. But don’t confuse that with legitimate criticism of a pope’s actions. If a pope kisses the Koran or allows a statue of the Buddha to be placed on top of a tabernacle, it is perfectly legitimate to question the prudence or correctness of such actions.
And our parents sat in the pews along with us, did they not Palmas? And in the space of two years or less, everything that we grew up with as kids was out the window. Have we not prayed for over 40 years that what was lost would one day be restored?In their quest to become relevent and modern anything and everything traditional was thrown out and sneered at by people such as this poster. There was no time to even remember what the Church had been. The Old Mass was gone and good riddance. The Old Church was gone and good riddance Now and only now could the real work begin:thumbsup:. Whatever that was
The thing is if you could take him he probably would not believe what he would see. No, because in his mind those things did not happen, could not happen and never did happen. No for him the Church was mired in desolation and dying on the vine prior to Vatican II. We did not have the same exuberant faith that pervades the Church today. Nope, we didn’t even know what was going on and were so helpless and ignorant that all we deserve today is his contempt.