You say you are right?

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Reen 12, is that the only thing you see as an act that was in your opinion a bad action on the part of Jesus? I have not read commentary on that passage, so I don’t know what if anything some theologians say about it. I want to research it now though.
But, while I am at it., I wondered if there was anything else to look at, if you know of anything.

Thanks!
 
Sometimes, it is the little things that tell one a great deal.

Jesus encounters a fig tree, which is out of season.

Matthew 21:18-22

When he was going back to the city in the morning, he was hungry.
Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went over to it, but found nothing on it except leaves.
And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again.” And immediately the fig tree withered.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

A living plant is destroyed…to make a point.

I contrast this irrational act, with that of the God of Israel -

God speaks with Moses.
The burning bush is not consumed by the flames…

As he looked on, [Moses] was surprised to see that the bush - though on fire,
was not consumed. So Moses decided, “I must go over to look at this remarkable sight,
and see why the bush is not burned.” When the Lord saw him coming over to look at it more
closely, God called out to him from the bush,
“Moses! Moses!” He answered, “Here I am.” [Exodus 3]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

The bush remains vibrant with life…and the promise of future growth.

reen12
 
notsmart said:
Reen 12, is that the only thing you see as an act that was in your opinion a bad action on the part of Jesus? I have not read commentary on that passage, so I don’t know what if anything some theologians say about it. I want to research it now though.
But, while I am at it., I wondered if there was anything else to look at, if you know of anything.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
There are probably many commentaries on Jesus and the fig tree.
**

What I find particularly troubling, about this incident, is the
words Jesus speaks - when the fig tree is now withered.

Nothing that Jesus is recorded as saying - following this odd
incident, pertains to anything at all. Complete non sequiturs.

And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again.”
And immediately the fig tree withered.
When the disciples saw this, they were amazed and said,
“How was it that the fig tree withered immediately?”

Jesus said to them in reply, “Amen, I say to you, if you have faith and do not waver,
not only will you do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain,
‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ it will be done.
Whatever you ask for in prayer with faith, you will receive.”

quote: reen12
Jesus encounters a fig tree, which is out of season.

Matthew 21:18-22
Click to expand...
When he was going back to the city in the morning, he was hungry.
Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went over to it, but found nothing on it except leaves.
And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again.” And immediately the fig tree withered.

i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1…andthebush.jpg

A living plant is destroyed…to make a point.

reen12
 
reen12 said:
Sometimes, it is the little things that tell one a great deal.

Jesus encounters a fig tree, which is out of season.

Matthew 21:18-22

When he was going back to the city in the morning, he was hungry.
Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went over to it, but found nothing on it except leaves.
And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again.” And immediately the fig tree withered.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/reen12/thefigtreeandthebush.jpg

A living plant is destroyed…to make a point.

I contrast this irrational act, with that of the God of Israel -

God speaks with Moses.
The burning bush is not consumed by the flames…

As he looked on, [Moses] was surprised to see that the bush - though on fire,
was not consumed. So Moses decided, “I must go over to look at this remarkable sight,
and see why the bush is not burned.” When the Lord saw him coming over to look at it more
closely, God called out to him from the bush,
“Moses! Moses!” He answered, “Here I am.” [Exodus 3]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/reen12/burningbush2.jpg

The bush remains vibrant with life…and the promise of future growth.

reen12
Click to expand...
18 Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry.

19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.

20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked.

21 Jesus replied, "**I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. **

22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

the point ? Have Faith In God

the context of the above and of Moses have absolutely nothing in common
 
trustme80 said:
18 Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry.

19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.

20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked.

21 Jesus replied, "**I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. **

22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

the point ? Have Faith In God

the context of the above and of Moses have absolutely nothing in common
Click to expand...
I shall leave it to those, following this thread,
to make their determination - as to whether
little things speak volumes.

quote: reen12
Sometimes, it is the little things that tell one a great deal.

Jesus encounters a fig tree, which is out of season.

Matthew 21:18-22

When he was going back to the city in the morning, he was hungry.
Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went over to it, but found nothing on it except leaves.
And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again.” And immediately the fig tree withered.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/reen12/thefigtreeandthebush.jpg

A living plant is destroyed…to make a point.

I contrast this irrational act, with that of the God of Israel -

God speaks with Moses.
The burning bush is not consumed by the flames…

As he looked on, [Moses] was surprised to see that the bush - though on fire,
was not consumed. So Moses decided, “I must go over to look at this remarkable sight, and see why the bush is not burned.” When the Lord saw him coming over to look at it more closely, God called out to him from the bush,
“Moses! Moses!” He answered, “Here I am.” [Exodus 3]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/reen12/burningbush2.jpg

The bush remains vibrant with life…and the promise of future growth.
Click to expand...
reen12 :tiphat:
 
To further highlight the contrast, between Jesus and I AM:
reen12 said:
How perfectly curious.

Here’s Jesus, counseling others to be perfect,
while he’s going about cursing a fig tree for
not producing figs…out of season.

Matthew 21…

When he was going back to the city in the morning, he was hungry…
Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went over to it, but found nothing on it except leaves.
And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again.”
And immediately the fig tree withered…

A bit of pique, on the part of Godhead?
He was hungry, and the tree had no figs…out of season.
So a growing plant is destroyed?

“…not only will you do what has been done to the fig tree…”

These are both the act and the mindset of Godhead?
A series of non-sequiturs?

Even the burnig bush was not consumed by I AM.

But, then, the God of Israel truly is God.
Click to expand...
reen12
 
I see it loud and clear Reen 12, and I won’t dissagree with you that it appears to be something that could lead one to see this as a very contrary act to life- to the living and I am so sorry I just can’t right now find any commentary on it just yet but I am very interested in your observation. I am hoping this is the result of a bad manuscript or copyist error of some kind.:o
 
I don’t think Jesus left us any “little” things. No little actions. No little words. His words and actions will only ever appear small because we have such small minds. So, do we have anything in common with that fig tree do you suppose? Our righteous selves growing all tall, our pride sprouting like the leaves?
 
Sanne said:
So, do we have anything in common with that fig tree do you suppose? Our righteous selves growing all tall, our pride sprouting like the leaves?
Click to expand...
But, even with this analogy- you have Jesus simply striking down to death the righteous selves filled with pride- that as in this fig tree, were not ready yet to grow to know and love to repent and ask forgiveness for our sins… So this analogy is rather problematic.
 
Moses and his sandals:

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More curiously still - is the matter of the sandals of Moses.
As Moses approaches the burning bush - which is not being consumed:

God said, "Come no nearer! Remove the sandals from your feet,
for the place where you stand is holy ground. Exodus 3: 4-5

What was the point - about Moses removing his sandals?

Sandals were made of leather - which is dead skin.
The God of Life is stressing that He is the God of living things,
including human beings. No thing - which was once alive,
is to be brought near Him. He left that little bush more of a little
bush - than before He spoke from it…
All that lives, are alive through Him. He is the God of life.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Yet Jesus destroys a living tree… which couldn’t produce figs, out of season.

It is said that:

If another can be trusted to care about small things,
then that other can be trusted in many things.

The care that notices and respects, is brought to both…whether great or small.

It is the little things that matter. Nothing is too ‘small’ for God’s notice.

Why destroy a fig tree?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

It was this willingness to destroy - simply to make a point,
that one notes

reen12
 
How do we determine whether or not Jesus action explains what happens to the tree while it’s still growing? Could it be that He is telling us what happens to us at the end of our lives if we have not produced fruit?
 
reen12 said:
How perfectly curious.

Here’s Jesus, counseling others to be perfect,
while he’s going about cursing a fig tree for
not producing figs…out of season.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/reen12/droopingfigtreepostedtoCAF-1.jpg

Matthew 21:18-22

When he was going back to the city in the morning, he was hungry.
Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went over to it, but found nothing on it except leaves.
And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again.” And immediately the fig tree withered.
When the disciples saw this, they were amazed and said, “How was it that the fig tree withered immediately?”
Jesus said to them in reply, “Amen, I say to you, if you have faith and do not waver,
not only will you do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain,
‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ it will be done.
Whatever you ask for in prayer with faith, you will receive.”

A bit of pique, on the part of Godhead?
He was hungry, and the tree had no figs…out of season.
So a growing plant is destroyed?

“…not only will you do what has been done to the fig tree…”

These are both the act and the mindset of Godhead?
A series of non-sequiturs?

Even the burnig bush was not consumed by I AM.

But, then, the God of Israel truly is God.

reen12
Click to expand...


John 15:5-8

5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

Matthew 21:21-22

21 Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done.

22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

I still think it’s about the importance of faith

i’ve included John 15:5-8 as reference​
 
trustme80 said:


John 15:5-8

5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned…

Matthew 21:21-22

21 Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done.

22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

I still think it’s about the importance of faith

i’ve included John 15:5-8 as reference

So he destroyed a fig tree - to make a point about faith.

As I said, earlier:

quote: reen12
The God of Life…
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
​
 
Sanne said:
How do we determine whether or not Jesus action explains what happens to the tree while it’s still growing? Could it be that He is telling us what happens to us at the end of our lives if we have not produced fruit?
Click to expand...
Hello, Sanne, and welcome to CAF. http://bestsmileys.com/waving/5.gif

That’s a really good observation, I think.
What I’m considering, in terms of the fig tree,
is the vastly different attitude and action, of
the God of Israel toward the burning bush.

quote: reen12
The God of Life…left that little bush more of a little
bush - than before He spoke from it.

All that lives, are alive through Him. He is the God of life.

i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1…rningbush2.jpg

Yet Jesus destroys a living tree… which couldn’t produce figs, out of season…

i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1…andthebush.jpg

It was this willingness to destroy - simply to make a point,
that one notes.

…contrasting the action of God, with that of Jesus -
vis a vis a living thing.

reen12
 
Sanne said:
How do we determine whether or not Jesus action explains what happens to the tree while it’s still growing? Could it be that He is telling us what happens to us at the end of our lives if we have not produced fruit?
Click to expand...
Hello, Sanne, and welcome to CAF. http://bestsmileys.com/waving/5.gif

That’s a really good observation, I think.
What I’m considering, in terms of the fig tree,
is the vastly different attitude and action, of
the God of Israel, toward the burning bush.

quote: reen12
The God of Life…left that little bush more of a little
bush - than before He spoke from it.

All that lives, are alive through Him. He is the God of life.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/reen12/burningbush2.jpg%between%

Yet Jesus destroys a living tree… which couldn’t produce figs, out of season…

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/reen12/thefigtreeandthebush.jpg

It was this willingness to destroy - simply to make a point,
that one notes.

…contrasting the action of God, with that of Jesus -
vis a vis a living thing.
Click to expand...
reen12
 
notsmart said:
I see it loud and clear Reen 12, and I won’t dissagree with you that it appears to be something that could lead one to see this as a very contrary act to life- to the living and I am so sorry I just can’t right now find any commentary on it just yet but I am very interested in your observation. I am hoping this is the result of a bad manuscript or copyist error of some kind.:o
Click to expand...
In my post # 55, in this thread, I gave a link to the results found,
when I queried “Jesus curses the fig tree.”

google.com/search?hl=en&q=Jesus+curses+the+fig+tree&aq=f&oq

Perhaps one or more of the websites listed, might offer more cogent explanation -
for this action of Jesus, from a Chrisitian point of view.

Best,

reen :tiphat:
 
reen12 said:
I googled “Jesus curses the fig tree.”

google.com/search?hl=en&q=Jesus+curses+the+fig+tree&aq=f&oq=

For those who would see his action in a positive light,
perhaps one of those websites might assist.

Considering that nearly 98,000 results were listed,
for this query, does this bespeak the felt necessity
for addressing his curious behavior?

reen12
Click to expand...
burning bush and fig tree are both signs, but the context are different

the burning bush was a sign of hope and guidance for israel

3 So Moses thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up.”

12 And God said, “I will be with you. And this will be the sign to you that it is I who have sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you [a] will worship God on this mountain.”

the fig tree was a warning concerning faith and duty ( bear fruit, have faith )

that’s my personal opinion

well, i googled “red cow dancing” and there’s 399.000 🤷
 
Sanne said:
How do we determine whether or not Jesus action explains what happens to the tree while it’s still growing? Could it be that He is telling us what happens to us at the end of our lives if we have not produced fruit?
Click to expand...
The fact that Jesus performs a miracle which is destructive seems out of character from all the other miracles in the gospels, and has given commentators fits. But as we will see, there is a perfectly straightforward and simple explanation as to why Jesus would do this.

As we read in verses 12-14 of Mark, “the next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. Then he said to the tree, `May no one ever eat fruit from you again.’ And his disciples heard him say it.” Mark informs us that Jesus is hungry and that he uses the occasion of looking for food to instruct his disciples about the true spiritual condition of Israel. Jesus knew that while the tree was covered with leaves, it was not the season for figs. In effect, he is giving a living parable, acting out the principle parts of the story. We also need to know that throughout the Old Testament, the fig tree is used by the prophets as a symbol of Israel. A fruitful tree is a sign of blessing and obedience, while a tree without fruit is a sign of Israel’s poor spiritual condition (cf. Jeremiah 8:13; 29:17; Hosea 9:10, 16; Joel 1:7; and Micah 7:1-6). Furthermore, the prophets speak of the destruction of the fig tree as a metaphor for judgment upon Israel (Hosea 2:12; Isaiah 34:4)

Therefore, when Jesus approaches the fig tree, he is using that tree as a tangible symbol of Israel’s current spiritual condition just like the prophets had done. When Jesus curses the tree, he is showing what lies ahead for the city of Jerusalem and its temple --something unpacked by Jesus in great detail in Mark 13. The fig tree had many leaves (an apparent sign of vitality), but had no fruit (there was no substance). The Israelites thought that the glories of the temple and the sacrifices that took place there, was the sign that God blessed the people because of their national righteousness. But Jesus now uses the tree to make the point that what is visible and the reality behind it, are two different things. There are leaves, but there is no fruit. There is a temple, a priesthood and sacrifices, there is a Sanhedrin, but there is no sign of true righteousness.
 
trustme80 said:
well, i googled “red cow dancing” and there’s 399.000 🤷
Click to expand...
That is very funny, trustme80. Thank you for brightening my
day with laughter. 👋

quote: trustme80
burning bush and fig tree are both signs, but the context are different

the burning bush was a sign of hope and guidance for israel

3 So Moses thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up.”

12 And God said, “I will be with you. And this will be the sign to you that it is I who have sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you [a] will worship God on this mountain.”

the fig tree was a warning concerning faith and duty ( bear fruit, have faith )
Click to expand...
And I do comprehend your own point, that it was a matter of
context. It’s surely a point well made.

You know, even I was startled, when I first considered the two, together.
In our own day, when so often human life is not held sacred, from conception through natural death, it just struck me harder, when I noted this disparity - between the burning bush and the fig tree.

Yet how did his cavalier striking down of a fig tree - comport with
respect for life, in all of it’s forms - as it comes from the hand
of the Creator?

That fig tree had it’s life destroyed, so that Jesus could make a point?

In any case, I still think that you make a solid point.
The context must be considered.

Best,

reen
 
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