You "will" conceive and bear a Son

[MarcoPolo]

**Luke 1:31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call His name Jesus.**I noticed in the RSV-CE and many other translations the switch from “will” in the first part to “shall” in the latter. I especially am focused on the “will” in the first part, and most translations I’ve looked at have the word “will” there.

Read the sentence with me a little differently and let me paraphrase: “Mary, you will…” The word “will” there is not as much of a prediction but as a description of what is Mary’s will. That’s the ultimate meaning of the word anyway.

I will that I go to bed at 9:00. You will that you get the house painted this summer.

Now if we interpret the sentence, what the angel is saying is “Mary, you will conceive and bear a son.” It is a reinforcement of Mary’s will involved in the plan of salvation. When the angel says “you will” we are then told what she wills: to conceive and bear the Son.

Does anyone agree or know of commentaries reflecting on this?

 

[John7]

Hi

‘you will conceive’ should in a way be written
‘you-will-conceive’,

all three words are from one Gk verb συλλημψη / sullhmpsh (from sullhambanw)
which is a Future Middle Indicative verb in 2nd person and singular, important thing is ‘Future’ that’s why translators put in the ‘will’, ‘you-will-conceive’ ie, in the future. The ‘will’ as a mental faculty is from θελημα / Thelema…

does that make sense

 

[Eucharisted]

*Latin:

Luke 1:31
Et ecce concipies in utero et paries filium et vocabis nomen eius Iesum.

Literal Translation:

Luke 1:31
And lo you [will] bear a son and his name [shall] be Jesus.*

The first - will - is a reference to a future event, and the second - shall - is a decree.

 

[AngelRose81]

From an entirely grammatical view (as an English teacher), “will” & “shall” can be interchangeable in most situations. “Will” in some uses means exactly what you said, as in you are willing something to happen; however, in other cases it means that something is going to take place in the future. “Shall” in most cases means that something is going to take place, also. It is more proper to use “will” than “shall” in most situations, and many English teachers you find say this as well.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Hi

‘you will conceive’ should in a way be written
‘you-will-conceive’,

all three words are from one Gk verb συλλημψη / sullhmpsh (from sullhambanw)
which is a Future Middle Indicative verb in 2nd person and singular, important thing is ‘Future’ that’s why translators put in the ‘will’, ‘you-will-conceive’ ie, in the future. The ‘will’ as a mental faculty is from θελημα / Thelema…

does that make sense

In the Greek, what does middle indicative mean?

 

[NHInsider]

From an entirely grammatical view (as an English teacher), “will” & “shall” can be interchangeable in most situations. “Will” in some uses means exactly what you said, as in you are willing something to happen; however, in other cases it means that something is going to take place in the future. “Shall” in most cases means that something is going to take place, also. It is more proper to use “will” than “shall” in most situations, and many English teachers you find say this as well.

yeah but the OP was making a different grammatical error:

**

Read the sentence with me a little differently and let me paraphrase: “Mary, you will**…” The word “will” there is not as much of a prediction but as a description of what is Mary’s will. That’s the ultimate meaning of the word anyway.

I will that I go to bed at 9:00. You will that you get the house painted this summer.

There is no particular relationship between the use of “will” as an auxiliary to indicate a future event and the use of “will” to mean volition. It is incidental that in English the same word serves both purposes (as has been pointed out, in the Greek the future is indicated by the conjunction, not with an auxiliary.

John7, can you confirm that the noun “will” as in the Our Father and its verb form are a different word in Greek than the “will” that is being translated in the Annunciation?
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[Cachonga]

MarcoPolo:

Read the sentence with me a little differently and let me paraphrase: “Mary, you will…” The word “will” there is not as much of a prediction but as a description of what is Mary’s will. That’s the ultimate meaning of the word anyway.

I will that I go to bed at 9:00. You will that you get the house painted this summer.

Look at how the sentence is structured. If you had a child that you wanted to be in bed by 9 PM, would you tell him " You will to be in bed by 9.", or “You will be in bed by 9”. The angel isn’t telling Mary that she wills to be pregnant (as a young bride, she very likely is looking forward to this, but in the normal way with her husband). I don’t see anything in the message from the angel that indicates Mary had a choice in the matter (that she accepted it is proof of her faithfulness to God).

 

[MarcoPolo]

I don’t see anything in the message from the angel that indicates Mary had a choice in the matter (that she accepted it is proof of her faithfulness to God).

While the word “will” appears to not indicate Mary’s choice in the matter, that the angel came to her at all, and that she gave the approving words “Let it be done” does indicate the angel was sent for her consent. The earliest apostolic Tradition consistently maintains this as well. The passage also, as you state, shows that she did indeed have great faith.

 

[Cachonga]

MarcoPolo:

While the word “will” appears to not indicate Mary’s choice in the matter, that the angel came to her at all, and that she gave the approving words “Let it be done” does indicate the angel was sent for her consent. The earliest apostolic Tradition consistently maintains this as well. The passage also, as you state, shows that she did indeed have great faith.

I disagree. Remember, the angel was also sent to Zechariah. Even though he doubted, God didn’t change His mind about blessing him and Elizabeth with John. That Mary consented to the will of God does not mean that God needed (or even asked for) her permission. As I said before (and you apparently agree with), that she accepted it is proof of her faithfulness to God.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I disagree. Remember, the angel was also sent to Zechariah. Even though he doubted, God didn’t change His mind about blessing him and Elizabeth with John. That Mary consented to the will of God does not mean that God needed (or even asked for) her permission. As I said before (and you apparently agree with), that she accepted it is proof of her faithfulness to God.

Zechariah, unlike Mary, had asked prior to the angel’s arrival for a child (Lk 1:13). So naturally the angel can’t be seen as visiting him for the purpose of consent. As I said, I think Mary’s response is one of consent, and this has been the Church’s understanding of the text from the beginning.

 

[lyc70]

Zechariah, unlike Mary, had asked prior to the angel’s arrival for a child (Lk 1:13). So naturally the angel can’t be seen as visiting him for the purpose of consent. As I said, I think Mary’s response is one of consent, and this has been the Church’s understanding of the text from the beginning.

Your words are being shared with warmthly comfortable memory.http://www.*********.com/img/4713/n09x0302vnsn/clear.gif

 

[Cachonga]

MarcoPolo:

Zechariah, unlike Mary, had asked prior to the angel’s arrival for a child (Lk 1:13). So naturally the angel can’t be seen as visiting him for the purpose of consent. As I said, I think Mary’s response is one of consent, and this has been the Church’s understanding of the text from the beginning.

So you don’t think that a young woman engaged to be married would be thinking about (and praying for) children? Oh, that’s right. Mary (allegedly) had a “vow of virginity” (why would someone with a vow of virginity get married?). This is starting to go beyond the topic of the thread, so I’ll just end by saying that the use of the word “will” in “you will conceive” has nothing to do with Mary’s free will (I think that was the original question, right?).

 

[MarcoPolo]

So you don’t think that a young woman engaged to be married would be thinking about (and praying for) children?

No, I don’t imagine Mary was praying about having a child supernaturally conceived by God. And yes, we agree, the word “will” there likely refers to future event rather than further evidence of her consent.