Young Adult Children

[Modestly_Anne]

We have an almost 20 year old son (college student), who lives at home. He wishes to have the freedom to stay out all night so that he may engage in underage drinking at his friends’ apartments. He has already received an underage drinking ticket. He also wishes to go away on weekend trips etc. in groups that include both young men and women. He has already had sexual relationships in the past with a young lady and while I don’t know that these weekends would include that as he doesn’t currently have a steady girlfriend, it certainly seems it could become a possibility.

We have younger children in the home. My husband and I feel that this example is detrimental to the values we are trying to instill in them and setting examples for what is acceptable and what is not.

While his activities outside the home aren’t necessarily the younger children’s business, living in a family these things do come up and the children do see and hear things.

Is it wrong for us to have him move to an apt. near campus at his own expense? We will continue to pay his tuition but can’t afford to pay for room and board.

I’m really torn on this. I don’t agree with breaking the law and drinking under age and I also don’t agree that these mixed sex group getaways are a very good idea as they certainly can lead to the occasion of sin, but at times I feel that maybe I’m just being unrealistic about what young people should be allowed the freedom to do.

Opinions? Advice?

 

[Armyvet007]

We have an almost 20 year old son (college student), who lives at home. He wishes to have the freedom to stay out all night so that he may engage in underage drinking at his friends’ apartments. He has already received an underage drinking ticket. He also wishes to go away on weekend trips etc. in groups that include both young men and women. He has already had sexual relationships in the past with a young lady and while I don’t know that these weekends would include that as he doesn’t currently have a steady girlfriend, it certainly seems it could become a possibility.

We have younger children in the home. My husband and I feel that this example is detrimental to the values we are trying to instill in them and setting examples for what is acceptable and what is not.

While his activities outside the home aren’t necessarily the younger children’s business, living in a family these things do come up and the children do see and hear things.

Is it wrong for us to have him move to an apt. near campus at his own expense? We will continue to pay his tuition but can’t afford to pay for room and board.

I’m really torn on this. I don’t agree with breaking the law and drinking under age and I also don’t agree that these mixed sex group getaways are a very good idea as they certainly can lead to the occasion of sin, but at times I feel that maybe I’m just being unrealistic about what young people should be allowed the freedom to do.

Opinions? Advice?

Your house, your rules. Works for anyone visiting/staying at your house.

 

[monicatholic]

We have 5 kids age 19 thru 31 (and5 more aged 5 thru 17).

My rules for myself parenting adult kids: i dont pay for lifestyles of overt, casual sin. I dont house it. I dont fund it happening elsewhere.

Do I mean my kids should live a double life?
Yes if they’re doing sinful or dangerous things and they want my money
OR
No, they should be free to do what they want out in the open and pay for it themselves out in the open, too.
OR
No, they shouldnt live lives of casually sinful, dangerous behavior.

This is:
Same way I wouldnt pay my kid’s internet bill if s/he had a porn problem.
Same way i wouldnt pay the insurance of a reckless driver kid’s car.
Same way i wouldnt give an addict kid money.

I dont participate or fund stuff that could kill my kid-- either spiritually OR physically.

I love them THAT much. And I’ll someday answer to God for my part in their lives. I love God that much, too.

 

[stephe1987]

Your house, your rules. If he wants to participate in underage drinking and sex outside of marriage–things that are against your values–he needs to find his own place to live.

I would also take it a step further. You are paying his tuition for college. He is very lucky that you’re doing that; a lot of people (myself included) had to pay their own way through college. I would treat your money like a scholarship. If he wants to keep his scholarship, he is going to have to follow some rules. Otherwise, he can put himself through college by working, scholarships, and/or taking out student loans.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I would not only kick his rear end out the door tomorrow, I’d tell him he just got his last tuition money from me too. Good luck, come home on Sunday for a meal, don’t bring your laundry.

 

[Allegra]

If he isn’t following the rules of your house, you have a perfect right to put him out.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I would not only kick his rear end out the door tomorrow, I’d tell him he just got his last tuition money from me too. Good luck, come home on Sunday for a meal, don’t bring your laundry.

Tomorrow? That’s beyond ridiculous. Beyond. Ridiculous. You couldn’t even get away with that legally if he was a tenant (stranger). To show such callous disregard for one’s own flesh and blood is morally reprehensible. Oh and by the way, if I was your son and you tried to pull that junk on me, say goodbye to your Sunday dinner because I’m not coming home…ever… or even calling you on the phone… because you have basically disowned me at that point.

Let’s step back and put things in perspective. As far as we know, at the age of 20 he has consumed alcohol and had sex. I suspect the same could be said for the majority of people at such an age. So let’s not go overboard here. We have all sinned. I’m not even sure how much of a sin the drinking is, since we don’t know how severe it is. If it’s just a matter of him being 20 vs. 21, that’s hardly a big deal. If it’s binge drinking, then sure. As to the trips, the poster is not even sure that he is still having sex from the sound of it. That he’s staying out all night? What’s so offensive about that at the age of 20? His parents certainly have the right, while he’s living with them, to tell him not to do so. But beyond that, so what?

In summary, what are you getting so morally outraged over? Are you free from all sin? If not, why do you expect others to be?

So now that we have taken a deep breath, let’s look at this issue fairly and with a charitable spirit. Let’s go ahead and assume the absolute worst - he’s an unrepentant fornicator and he’s helplessly addicted to alcohol. It probably doesn’t go this far, but let’s say it does.

In such a case, this is a good time to put your foot down and express that such behavior is unacceptable. When you say it, mean it. Make it an ultimatum: if you want to set a curfew, do so - and express what the consequences will be for breaking it. You might also say that if he has another legal run in with the drinking (or anything else), you will stop paying for his schooling. That seems quite fair.

If you are of the opinion that you have tried to work on his behavior and that he will never follow your rules then by all means, tell him he must leave.

But for the love of God, if there’s no immediate problems then don’t do something cruel (and possibly illegal) by kicking him out without notice. Instead give him a decent window to get set up: 30 days bare minimum, up to 90 days (if you can tolerate it - he is your son, after all) is preferable.

 

[The_Bucket]

The kid is 20. Unless he’s been paying rent and has either a verbal or written contract, he’s not a tenant. So please get out of here with this “illegal” nonsense.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Tomorrow? That’s beyond ridiculous. Beyond. Ridiculous. You couldn’t even get away with that legally if he was a tenant (stranger). To show such callous disregard for one’s own flesh and blood is morally reprehensible. Oh and by the way, if I was your son and you tried to pull that junk on me, say goodbye to your Sunday dinner because I’m not coming home…ever… or even calling you on the phone… because you have basically disowned me at that point.

Let’s step back and put things in perspective. As far as we know, at the age of 20 he has consumed alcohol and had sex. I suspect the same could be said for the majority of people at such an age. So let’s not go overboard here. We have all sinned. I’m not even sure how much of a sin the drinking is, since we don’t know how severe it is. If it’s just a matter of him being 20 vs. 21, that’s hardly a big deal. If it’s binge drinking, then sure. As to the trips, the poster is not even sure that he is still having sex from the sound of it. That he’s staying out all night? What’s so offensive about that at the age of 20? His parents certainly have the right, while he’s living with them, to tell him not to do so. But beyond that, so what?

In summary, what are you getting so morally outraged over? Are you free from all sin? If not, why do you expect others to be?

So now that we have taken a deep breath, let’s look at this issue fairly and with a charitable spirit. Let’s go ahead and assume the absolute worst - he’s an unrepentant fornicator and he’s helplessly addicted to alcohol. It probably doesn’t go this far, but let’s say it does.

In such a case, this is a good time to put your foot down and express that such behavior is unacceptable. When you say it, mean it. Make it an ultimatum: if you want to set a curfew, do so - and express what the consequences will be for breaking it. You might also say that if he has another legal run in with the drinking (or anything else), you will stop paying for his schooling. That seems quite fair.

If you are of the opinion that you have tried to work on his behavior and that he will never follow your rules then by all means, tell him he must leave.

But for the love of God, if there’s no immediate problems then don’t do something cruel (and possibly illegal) by kicking him out without notice. Instead give him a decent window to get set up: 30 days bare minimum, up to 90 days (if you can tolerate it - he is your son, after all) is preferable.

Ha. Morally reprehensible! I call it responsible parenting. The kid is being a leech, expecting to be supported for drinking and having sex. Who is paying for that underage ticket? Who is paying for tuition? Does he have a job? What are his grades like? If he’s drinking, I bet they aren’t very good. What agreement did he have with his parents in the first place? Did they set any boundaries, such as “If you start drinking and partying, that’s the end of our support.” I have a son ready to leave in the fall and you are darn tootin that he will know exactly what will happen should he choose to blow off his classes in favor of partying.

These parents have other children still at home. This son needs to shape up and stop being a bad example to his siblings. He is using his parents, doesn’t seem to have a qualm about it. He wants to eat his cake and have it - be supported in his lifestyle of partying and fornicating. If they are aware of it, how much is he hiding it for his siblings?

Illegal? No, you can kick a kid out at age 18. I know, because I was likely to have to do it had my own son not turned himself around. Parents these days are all too often held hostage by bratty kids who think they can do anything they like and the parents have to support them. Well, tough beans, I say. College is not a time to act a fool. It’s expensive as heck these days. My money, my rules. Act a fool and the money spigot shuts off.

p.s. My father enabled my sister to stay dependent and always in a crisis, until she was 40. It’s a bad thing to do to your kids. It tends to go on and on forever unless you cut it off at the very beginning. Funny thing, once they have to pay the bills, the light bulb goes off and they recognize what they’ve been doing to good old Mom and Dad. Usually, that is. The ones who get angry and punish their parents for drawing a boundary - well, some people just don’t have any character.

 

[ADiosgracias]

my opinion is if you kick him out you are let him the things easy, and more and more sins without remorse he will have because you and your husband aren’t there.
Keep him with you us much us you can!!!

 

[Modestly_Anne]

my opinion is if you kick him out you are let him the things easy, and more and more sins without remorse he will have because you and your husband aren’t there.
Keep him with you us much us you can!!!

Well, if it was just him, I’d agree with you, but when he gets angry when we say he can’t do the things he wants it makes for an unpleasant living environment for everybody involved. He can be loud and say unkind things at times. This is certainly setting an example for our younger children that we are not happy about. At 20, he really is an adult and we can’t make him act the way we’d like by grounding him or taking away a privilege the same way you can when they are younger.

Just to clarify I never said anything about kicking him out either. It will be a mutual agreement. Something he has suggested previously.

 

[Modestly_Anne]

Thank you to everybody and just to clarify a bit.

It’s not that he doesn’t have a qualm about it. He does usually feel somewhat badly after we have a blow up when he is not getting his own way, which is one reason I have felt badly for him. He sadly sees all his friends come and go as they please, being allowed to stay out all night or go away on weekend getaways etc. although none of them have younger siblings in the home. I actually do empathize with him wanting the freedom that seems to be accepted as the norm for college kids, at least by many parents even if I can’t accept his immoral choices at times.

For the record, he actually does have good grades and he has a part time job that he uses to pay for his entertainment etc.

He has mentioned moving out in the past, and that is why I wondered if it is time to ask him to go ahead and do so, even though we can not / will not fund it and it will mean loans for him. I know that summer will soon be here and all his friends that go away all year to college will be back in town and he will want to be out many nights and take weekend trips etc. which will include drinking and young ladies etc.

It just really causes conflict in our home when he wants to stay over at a party all night or go away with friends for weekend events etc. He’s almost 20. You really just can’t treat a 20 year old, like you would even a 17 or 18 year old, but at the same time we can not/ do not want to ignore that he is setting a very real example for our younger children about lifestyle choices and options. Yet at the same time I do worry that his moving out will be setting him up for even more sin, as the last poster suggested.

 

[Modestly_Anne]

Tomorrow? That’s beyond ridiculous. Beyond. Ridiculous. You couldn’t even get away with that legally if he was a tenant (stranger). To show such callous disregard for one’s own flesh and blood is morally reprehensible. Oh and by the way, if I was your son and you tried to pull that junk on me, say goodbye to your Sunday dinner because I’m not coming home…ever… or even calling you on the phone… because you have basically disowned me at that point.

Let’s step back and put things in perspective. As far as we know, at the age of 20 he has consumed alcohol and had sex. I suspect the same could be said for the majority of people at such an age. So let’s not go overboard here. We have all sinned. I’m not even sure how much of a sin the drinking is, since we don’t know how severe it is. If it’s just a matter of him being 20 vs. 21, that’s hardly a big deal. If it’s binge drinking, then sure. As to the trips, the poster is not even sure that he is still having sex from the sound of it. That he’s staying out all night? What’s so offensive about that at the age of 20? His parents certainly have the right, while he’s living with them, to tell him not to do so. But beyond that, so what?

In summary, what are you getting so morally outraged over? Are you free from all sin? If not, why do you expect others to be?

So now that we have taken a deep breath, let’s look at this issue fairly and with a charitable spirit. Let’s go ahead and assume the absolute worst - he’s an unrepentant fornicator and he’s helplessly addicted to alcohol. It probably doesn’t go this far, but let’s say it does.

In such a case, this is a good time to put your foot down and express that such behavior is unacceptable. When you say it, mean it. Make it an ultimatum: if you want to set a curfew, do so - and express what the consequences will be for breaking it. You might also say that if he has another legal run in with the drinking (or anything else), you will stop paying for his schooling. That seems quite fair.

If you are of the opinion that you have tried to work on his behavior and that he will never follow your rules then by all means, tell him he must leave.

But for the love of God, if there’s no immediate problems then don’t do something cruel (and possibly illegal) by kicking him out without notice. Instead give him a decent window to get set up: 30 days bare minimum, up to 90 days (if you can tolerate it - he is your son, after all) is preferable.

I don’t think I implied that I was about to do anything cruel. I’m pretty sure that my post showed I am struggling with what to do and have certainly supported him even through some bad choices.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I don’t think I implied that I was about to do anything cruel. I’m pretty sure that my post showed I am struggling with what to do and have certainly supported him even through some bad choices.

That poster was responding to MY message, not yours. I’m the one who said if your son doesn’t curtail his behavior, out he should go.

With further information, that he is at least keeping decent grades and has a part-time job, I would re-consider kicking him out immediately, but I would sit down and have a “we have to get to the bottom of this” meeting. And no one leaves until something is nailed down. Either he needs to live in a moral way, while he is under your roof, or he really does need to leave.

He can find a roommate to help with expenses. I guess if you wanted to contribute something for his support, if you can swing it in addition to paying his tuition, you could do that, but I would not make it open-ended. Like, by next year, he should be paying most if not all of his rent. If he can’t do everything that his friends do, oh well. He is actually maturing faster than they are, although he may not appreciate that at the moment. It seems as if he wants you to do everything for him, and accept his unacceptable behavior, as you would a renter. But he’s not paying rent, and his little siblings are paying close attention to his behavior. Have you talked to him about that? Does he care, or is he still playing spoiled brat “I should be able to do whatever I want?”

 

[Modestly_Anne]

That poster was responding to MY message, not yours. I’m the one who said if your son doesn’t curtail his behavior, out he should go.

With further information, that he is at least keeping decent grades and has a part-time job, I would re-consider kicking him out immediately, but I would sit down and have a “we have to get to the bottom of this” meeting. And no one leaves until something is nailed down. Either he needs to live in a moral way, while he is under your roof, or he really does need to leave.

He can find a roommate to help with expenses. I guess if you wanted to contribute something for his support, if you can swing it in addition to paying his tuition, you could do that, but I would not make it open-ended. Like, by next year, he should be paying most if not all of his rent. If he can’t do everything that his friends do, oh well. He is actually maturing faster than they are, although he may not appreciate that at the moment. It seems as if he wants you to do everything for him, and accept his unacceptable behavior, as you would a renter. But he’s not paying rent, and his little siblings are paying close attention to his behavior. Have you talked to him about that? Does he care, or is he still playing spoiled brat “I should be able to do whatever I want?”

We won’t pay his expenses to live out of our home. We pay tuition, we pay for living expenses like food and clothing, we pay for car insurance, we provide a car to drive to school, work and acceptable outings, but if you want to live somewhere else, then you have to pay for that yourself. That’s the rule, that’s the way it was for our older child and that’s the way it will be for our younger children as well. We already have another in college under him, and another that will be starting soon.

He knows his siblings may notice his behavior, but of course he’s obviously thinking that there is not all too much wrong with his choices, at least nothing wrong enough that they shouldn’t be allowed to do the same when they are the same age.

Paying rent isn’t the issue. Even if he offered to that wouldn’t change our objection to his choices or his example.

As I said, I think he will be more than willing to go at this point, even though it will mean him getting loans. But the truth is, he is my child and I worry about what he will do with all that freedom. It’s easy to suggest tough love, until you are the one that has to give it and then sit back and watch the fall out unravel and hope you made the right choice…

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

He has mentioned moving out in the past, and that is why I wondered if it is time to ask him to go ahead and do so, even though we can not / will not fund it and it will mean loans for him.

I think you’ve just answered your own question.

It just really causes conflict in our home when he wants to stay over at a party all night or go away with friends for weekend events etc. He’s almost 20. You really just can’t treat a 20 year old, like you would even a 17 or 18 year old, but at the same time we can not/ do not want to ignore that he is setting a very real example for our younger children about lifestyle choices and options.

You have two groups to parent: your minor children and this (legally, at least) adult child. You have every right not to tolerate immoral behavior in your home, so I think the best option for everyone is to get this kid into his own digs.

Be careful of how you frame this move, however. Don’t make your younger children insecure about their place in the family by taking a tone like, “Johnny’s being a bad kid, so he had to go.”

Yet at the same time I do worry that his moving out will be setting him up for even more sin, as the last poster suggested.

But you know, he’s an adult. At what point is there the expectation that he needs to own up to his behavior, legally, emotionally, and spiritually?

Be careful that you, as mom, are not using his behavior as an excuse not to cut metaphoric the umbilical cord and keep him near you. Regardless of the sinfulness of some of his behavior, to become a mature, functional adult he does need to live his own life.

True story: My brother-in-law was born with bilateral club feet. When he was a small child he needed a series of painful surgeries, and he wore leg braces and used crutches until he was a teen. He got teased in school because of his braces, he couldn’t do gym class or go on field trips, and his social activities were either curtailed or had to be modified so he could do them.

My mother-in-law has used his feet and her irrational guilt about his disability as an excuses to keep him close to her his entire adult life. He never moved out of his parents’ home because she’s so worried about what might happen to him if he ever got his own place. This summer he will turn 39, and although he’s well-educated and has a really good job, emotionally and socially he’s about 17.

Luna

 

[The_Bucket]

Be careful of how you frame this move, however. Don’t make your younger children insecure about their place in the family by taking a tone like, “Johnny’s being a bad kid, so he had to go.”

Yeah I’d more frame it like “he’s a grown up now. It’s time for him to live on his own.” I mean at 20, the only time I was at home were breaks from college. My parents paid tuition, a food plan and the plane tickets to go back and forth but that was it. Pretty much the same as the OP here. Two years later I was married and had a kid on the way. Craziness…

Be careful that you, as mom, are not using his behavior as an excuse not to cut metaphoric the umbilical cord and keep him near you. Regardless of the sinfulness of some of his behavior, to become a mature, functional adult he does need to live his own life.

There’s a really thin tightrope to walk and I sympathize, but I think the OP is threading the needle here thus far. Not looking forward to dealing with adult kids even as I wish my own little ones would grow up a bit!

 

[Modestly_Anne]

I think you’ve just answered your own question.

You have two groups to parent: your minor children and this (legally, at least) adult child. You have every right not to tolerate immoral behavior in your home, so I think the best option for everyone is to get this kid into his own digs.

Be careful of how you frame this move, however. Don’t make your younger children insecure about their place in the family by taking a tone like, “Johnny’s being a bad kid, so he had to go.”

But you know, he’s an adult. At what point is there the expectation that he needs to own up to his behavior, legally, emotionally, and spiritually?

Be careful that you, as mom, are not using his behavior as an excuse not to cut metaphoric the umbilical cord and keep him near you. Regardless of the sinfulness of some of his behavior, to become a mature, functional adult he does need to live his own life.

True story: My brother-in-law was born with bilateral club feet. When he was a small child he needed a series of painful surgeries, and he wore leg braces and used crutches until he was a teen. He got teased in school because of his braces, he couldn’t do gym class or go on field trips, and his social activities were either curtailed or had to be modified so he could do them.

My mother-in-law has used his feet and her irrational guilt about his disability as an excuses to keep him close to her his entire adult life. He never moved out of his parents’ home because she’s so worried about what might happen to him if he ever got his own place. This summer he will turn 39, and although he’s well-educated and has a really good job, emotionally and socially he’s about 17.

Luna

Thanks I agree with much of what you say.

Oh and no worry about not cutting the cord… this child (yes young adult but still my child)…lol…would never hear of such a thing. He is quite independent in many ways. I have no doubt he can care for himself just fine, I just worry some about his conscience formation as it is obviously lacking in some areas.

I of course love him and while I know natural consequences are good, I just don’t want to lead him into choosing a way of life (college apartments) that will lead to unnecessary sin or have the consequences be life altering if that can be avoided.

Thanks.

 

[Modestly_Anne]

Yeah I’d more frame it like “he’s a grown up now. It’s time for him to live on his own.” I mean at 20, the only time I was at home were breaks from college. My parents paid tuition, a food plan and the plane tickets to go back and forth but that was it. Pretty much the same as the OP here. Two years later I was married and had a kid on the way. Craziness…

There’s a really thin tightrope to walk and I sympathize, but I think the OP is threading the needle here thus far. Not looking forward to dealing with adult kids even as I wish my own little ones would grow up a bit!

But see your parents were PAYING your way so while you may think you had cut the cord, it seems you were having the cord threaded financially, but getting the perks of the good life. Not saying you were making immoral choices while away, but there are many many " kids" having their immoral lifestyle funded by their parents and I personally don’t really agree with that either.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

We won’t pay his expenses to live out of our home. We pay tuition, we pay for living expenses like food and clothing, we pay for car insurance, we provide a car to drive to school, work and acceptable outings, but if you want to live somewhere else, then you have to pay for that yourself. That’s the rule, that’s the way it was for our older child and that’s the way it will be for our younger children as well. We already have another in college under him, and another that will be starting soon.

He knows his siblings may notice his behavior, but of course he’s obviously thinking that there is not all too much wrong with his choices, at least nothing wrong enough that they shouldn’t be allowed to do the same when they are the same age.

Paying rent isn’t the issue. Even if he offered to that wouldn’t change our objection to his choices or his example.

As I said, I think he will be more than willing to go at this point, even though it will mean him getting loans. But the truth is, he is my child and I worry about what he will do with all that freedom. It’s easy to suggest tough love, until you are the one that has to give it and then sit back and watch the fall out unravel and hope you made the right choice…

Believe me, I DO know. I was about to look for a boarding school for my 16 year old because he was too young for us to kick out of the house. But he was telling us TO OUR FACES that he would NOT obey our rules. What else do you do, as a parent, when that degree of rebellion is shown? “Oh, OK, well, never mind son, sorry to bother you…” No, it’s like a dare, a challenge, “What can they do to me?”

I’m glad you said you won’t pay expenses, and it will be up to him to make up the difference with his own financing. Again, HE is making choices just like an adult makes, and HE will have to decide if the consequences of said choices are worth it. I was not suggesting that he pay you rent, only saying that he sounds as though he is expecting you to treat him with as much detachment as you would a renter or boarder in your home. But even then, the boarder/renter would still have rules to follow, such as consideration of others in the house.

I say this for my own edification as well as yours, and several other parents whose children are making or have made questionable or downright stupid choices…We have to trust that we’ve done ALL WE COULD POSSIBLY DO, and let go of them. Did the Prodigal Son’s father try to stop him from leaving? Nope, he gave him his inheritance, in spite of that action saying that the son considered his father to be already dead, in the customs of the time. He let his son go and live the lifestyle he chose, and waited until the son came home again of his own volition. Now, I know this is a parable for our relationship with God our Father, but it sure is a good example for parents too. Of course we want to save them from pain, but of course, pain is how we all learn isn’t it?