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thistle
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Looks like the OP has run away because he has no counter argument to the comments of all the posters!!
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NPS
Guest
Except for Bahai’i, which believes everyone is right but everybody is wrong.
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predator_CA
Guest
I used to believe in god, Catholic, because of where I was born (Minnesota), but came to overcome this dogma through my personal qualities of observation and cynicism that you point out most of the world does not share; or are unwilling or unable to admit so. I don’t concern myself with converting anyone, let alone97% of the world, but I do believe in defending what I believe is most likely true. And remember, everyone used to know all of the following things: flat earth, earth center of the universe, heaven outside shell that surrounds the earth, etc. All religions’ attempt to explain and defend the mysteries that science simply could not yet explain. Perhaps that percentage will be slightly different in the future.
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st_lucy
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I guess since you have no concern in converting the 97% of us all i have to say to is what my 9 year daughter told my 6 year son when a playmate in the park told him there was no God and my son was crushed. “You (he) can believe now or you (he)can believe later, but one day you will believe.”
Also my college professor once said isn’t it funny that the older one gets the more religious they get. One can say they are an atheist until they are lying on their death and than they are wondering ‘I hope I wasn’t wrong.’
I would think that would be the wrong time to have that thought run through my mind.I will pray for you and hope you don’t wait til your death bed to find this out.
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Verisimilitude
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One thing about using personal qualities and observations to overcome dogma is the untrustworthiness of our personal qualities and observations.
How do you gauge your truth? Does Hawkins and Darwin speak the truth with respect to human evolution instead of as described in Genesis? Humans attempt the explaination to define the mysteries. Sometimes in religion, sometimes in the secular/science world. Sometimes the answers they produce are not as clear as we might like and sometimes they are incomplete to be so certain.
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GOP
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My parents were members of the Church of Christ and I was raised in that denomination. I, even after being baptized in the Church of Christ, am not a member of the Church of Christ.
After learning the truth I became a part of the Body of Christ.
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mark_a
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2000 years ago there weren’t any Christians, 1400 years ago there weren’t any Muslims. 500 years ago there weren’t any Protestants, 200 years ago there weren’t any. . . . . . . . Do you see where this is going?
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CarlosG
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I’ve never seen someone defeat their own argument better than you have:thumbsup:
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Trelow
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As do I.
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IanBoyd57
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You guys are completely missing the point.
There are people who change religion but they are not the majority. Obviously these blanket statements are not absolutely true in every case.
Atheism is not a religion. There is no cultural geographic location of atheism.
His point is quite true. Why is it that such a majority of people in the middle east are Muslim and a majority of people in the US are Christian?
Do you really think it’s just because all the people in the US are smarter and just figure out the “Truth” yet the middle east people are inferior and the majority of them don’t get it?
Ignorance is not a crime.
Willful ignorance is another story.
Your environment has a huge influence on your religious beliefs. Many people are de facto religious because their parents were.
The fact that you are all here, however, means that you are not de facto religious, you actually care and have thought about existence. Whether you have done this rationally or objectively or honestly or humbly is all up to debate, but you have at least thought about it, and for that I am thankful.
Yet don’t forget, if you grew up in the Middle East, you would believe in Islam as fervently as you do now, and so would I.
I’m not kidding myself. In America, although my atheism was strongly resisted by my family, I was always able to look up all kinds of things and learn to think for myself using the internet to find answers and information. In the middle east, I would have had much more trouble and could’ve faced violence. I would probably still be Muslim if I grew up over there.
So I’m not exempt. There are some things we can’t control.
Our environment forms us more than we wish, and we are all riders to the sea.
There are people who change religion but they are not the majority. Obviously these blanket statements are not absolutely true in every case.
Atheism is not a religion. There is no cultural geographic location of atheism.
His point is quite true. Why is it that such a majority of people in the middle east are Muslim and a majority of people in the US are Christian?
Do you really think it’s just because all the people in the US are smarter and just figure out the “Truth” yet the middle east people are inferior and the majority of them don’t get it?
Ignorance is not a crime.
Willful ignorance is another story.
Your environment has a huge influence on your religious beliefs. Many people are de facto religious because their parents were.
The fact that you are all here, however, means that you are not de facto religious, you actually care and have thought about existence. Whether you have done this rationally or objectively or honestly or humbly is all up to debate, but you have at least thought about it, and for that I am thankful.
Yet don’t forget, if you grew up in the Middle East, you would believe in Islam as fervently as you do now, and so would I.
I’m not kidding myself. In America, although my atheism was strongly resisted by my family, I was always able to look up all kinds of things and learn to think for myself using the internet to find answers and information. In the middle east, I would have had much more trouble and could’ve faced violence. I would probably still be Muslim if I grew up over there.
So I’m not exempt. There are some things we can’t control.
Our environment forms us more than we wish, and we are all riders to the sea.
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deb1
Guest
At one time most of the world was pagan and worshipped many Gods. In the Western world today there are three main religions that teach that there is one God.
By the OP’s reasoning pagan religions should still be predominate among the Western World.
Those in Italy should be worshipping Zeus, not attending Mass.
History disproves the Op’s vewpoint.
By the OP’s reasoning pagan religions should still be predominate among the Western World.
Those in Italy should be worshipping Zeus, not attending Mass.
History disproves the Op’s vewpoint.
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CarlosG
Guest
I dont think we missed it, at least I know I didn’t, although I must admit that I threw a cheap shot simply because he didn’t state the question in the correct form then went on to defeat his own argument.
The correct question (and im sure theres been plenty of threads on here about it) would be something like “Why does God not give everyone a fair shot at salvation? Given that hes omnipotent and given that we are here, he knows our fate, so why?” which is a much deeper question and its something that I think about all the time. Obviously the canned response is that he could not have created free creatures if hell was not a possibility and he does NOT hold the ignorance accountable for their sin (the question there is how MUCH knowledge is enough to warrant a fair shot, but I dont think we determine that), but for me both are unsatisfying answers although I can think of nothing better. But what trumps that for me is that I know God truly exists and that one day all will be made clear. It is very easy to take the wrong turn on this question and leave your faith, I have struggled through it and am in a better place, but with no more of an answer to it.
But I would like to hear your thoughts on why atheism is not a religion simply because it isnt confined to any localized area. What is your definition of religion? I would start there before jumping to conclusions.
The correct question (and im sure theres been plenty of threads on here about it) would be something like “Why does God not give everyone a fair shot at salvation? Given that hes omnipotent and given that we are here, he knows our fate, so why?” which is a much deeper question and its something that I think about all the time. Obviously the canned response is that he could not have created free creatures if hell was not a possibility and he does NOT hold the ignorance accountable for their sin (the question there is how MUCH knowledge is enough to warrant a fair shot, but I dont think we determine that), but for me both are unsatisfying answers although I can think of nothing better. But what trumps that for me is that I know God truly exists and that one day all will be made clear. It is very easy to take the wrong turn on this question and leave your faith, I have struggled through it and am in a better place, but with no more of an answer to it.
But I would like to hear your thoughts on why atheism is not a religion simply because it isnt confined to any localized area. What is your definition of religion? I would start there before jumping to conclusions.
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NPS
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I don’t think anyone missed the point. For Christianity to go from ZERO to over 1.5 Billion in only two-thousand years is evidence enough to prove you wrong. And that is only counting the Christians living today.
Athiesm is a belief system and a way of thinking about the nature of man and the existence of God. If it can’t be classified strictly as a religion, it certainly isn’t far from one.
Isn’t there? The vast majority of self-proclaimed athiests come from the USA and Western Europe. The vast majority of those people live in large cities. Why?
Of course there are majority centers of religious persuasions.
(Your above sentence was easy–I think I’ll use it):
Do you really think that athiests in the U.S. and Europe are smarter and just figure out the “Truth” yet the religious people are inferior and the majority of them don’t get it?
Now we finally get your feelings on the matter. Athiests are just plain smarter and religious people are “willfully ignorant”. How utterly scientific of you.
LOL–Thanks for the pat on the back for all us exceptions to the general rule of ignorant religious sheep walking around. One problem I have with many athiests is that they sell too many people far too short. They seem to never consider that all these people who have faith have asked all the questions the “enlightened” athiests have so sternly faced.
Has it ever occurred to you that there are millions of people who have asked the same questions you have asked but have come to a completely different (i.e. religious) conclusion?
The fact that certain areas of the world currently hold more people of one religion or another is immaterial. The original poster said “beliefs are based completely on geography.” Ludicrous. You simply CANNOT make any logical claim that all of us “would believe in Islam as fervently as you do now”.
Indeed, environment plays a large part, but please don’t just pay lip service and in reality exempt yourself from the influences in your own environment. You may have been born in a religious family but you grew up and live in a country which promotes athiesm at every turn. Pseudo-science and pop culture athiesm is the rule of the day in America. People are taught constantly to doubt the existence of God. People are taught constantly to live only for themselves. People are taught constantly that religion is a kind of mind-control which is meant to keep the individual spirit down. People are taught constantly that “science says…” this or that about life, the world, and God. Yet they know almost nothing about science themselves. They have swallowed the biggest lie of the twentieth century—That there is a dichotomy between science and religion. That religion and science are mutually exclusive.
The American culture has done quite a trick:
To get so many young people to believe that there is a division between religion and science, between spirituality and intelligence…all while the supposed “enlightened” ones know virtually NOTHING about science. It’s sad…but hilarious. I don’t know whether to mock or cry.
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blessedtoo
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Great post!
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CarlosG
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NPS:thumbsup:
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Aleii
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I think you and the OP are saying 2 different things. By reading your post, I get the impression that you are saying that the OP is saying that the world will not change. By reading the OPs post, I get the impression that he’s saying that you are more likely to accept and practice the religion of your surroundings. With changes in culture, science, technology, things change, and it is inevitable that populations and religions will change, especially in the last few thousand years with such major inventions such as the printing press, electricity, etc.
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clmowry
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Do you have any data to support this claim?
I’d bet Atheism could be linked at least as strongly to particlar cultural environments. i.e. communist states, Berkly graduates, etc
Chuck
I’d bet Atheism could be linked at least as strongly to particlar cultural environments. i.e. communist states, Berkly graduates, etc
Chuck
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Rawb
Guest
Can you disprove the existance of God? No? So you believe in something that you can’t prove? Sounds an awful lot like faith to me, and faith and religion are pretty much interchangable to me. Atheism is a religion, and saying it isn’t is using the same doublespeak logic that pro-abortionists use when saying “it’s not a life”.
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Valke2
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If God revealed Himself to you and me and we both wrote down the experience, do you think we would right the same thing? Would one of us have to be wrong?
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NPS
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I think you may be laboring under the false assumption that the Catholic Church, as the foremost representative of christianity, is hostile to science.
The idea of a flat earth is not from religion, but originally from greek philosophers. By the 1st C the majority of people (including Christian theologians) knew that the earth was a sphere and the understanding spread largely thanks to the greek astronomer Ptolemy (87-150 AD).
Copernicus (heliocentric theory) was at least a canon of the lay order of the Dominicans (some historians say he was a priest), and published his work at the urging of his friends, which included bishops and cardinals, and he dedicated his book to the pope.
Science, which so many profess to admire, but so few actually know, is almost completely the product of the Catholic Church.
Historians of science will tell you that the Scientific Revolution is indebted to the Church. Tons of the brightest scientists of the last several hundred years were Catholic priests. The man who is considered the “father of geology” was a priest. The man considered the father of Egyptology was a priest. The father of atomic theory was a priest. The founder of the Big Bang theory was a priest. Seismology is known as “the Jesuit science”. Most of the best astronomers were priests. Thirty-five craters of the moon are named for Jesuit scientists and mathmeticians. Nobody gave more support and study to the field of Astronomy for hundreds of years than the Catholic Church, which probably beat all support by any and all others combined.
You look at the Church as something science has to overcome. In reality, Jesus Christ, through His Church, has set humans on a course to discover the wonderful truths of the universe.
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