Your dark night of the soul

[edithsteinrocks]

Hi all!

Just thought I’d ask anyone willing to share their experience: what, to date, would you consider to be your darkest night, or biggest cloud of unknowing?

Me, my darkest night is being lived now. I doubt everything. I look upwards and see nothing. I turn inwards and sense nothing. I settle in to pray, wondering why I even bother. It was clear to me this morning when I woke up, looked at the clock and groaned, “Oh my G-D, I DON’T want to go to Mass! I don’t want to pray! I don’t feel like anything anymore! AAARRGGH! What’s the point?” I question everything, I know nothing, I doubt God and myself, I struggle and wrestle with a ladder I seem to climb only out of sheer will and stubborness.

So what did I do after I looked at the clock and groaned? As I wrote in my diary later on: “kicking and screaming I dragged myself to Church - because in spite of this suffocating blanket of darkness, dryness and unbelief, I believe.”

I am, quite frankly, spiritually exhausted. But still, I insist on saying, “it’s all good.”

Thanks for sharing!

 

[GEddie]

I appreciate your sharing this with everybody.

I wonder, does everybody undergo an identifiable “dark night” of this type, or can it go unheeded in the course of a longer conflict?

ICXC NIKA

 

[JoyfulLife]

I think it takes a very spiritual Priest to tell for sure if it is a dark night, or aridity/dryness, clinical depression, etc.

 

[grasscutter]

Keep trusting even if you don’t. I will pray for your! :hug1:

 

[kristleful]

Mine happened a couple of years ago, when I was 23… I have been through a lot of really bad times in my life, but I had always hung on to God and felt Him near in my suffering. Well, one day, I woke up with an awful cloud of doubt hanging over my head… It just came out of the blue! I tried to shrug it off, but it kept messing with my head, and when I talked to God I felt an oppressive emptiness. This persisted for a long time, and I actually was feeling very scared and confused and nearly panicked. When I closed my eyes, I saw awful things like black spiders crawling across my mind… I couldn’t rest; I couldn’t get any peace. I cried and begged God, Mary, the saints, my guardian angel, anyone in Heaven to help me and not abandon me like I felt. Yet I still went to daily Mass, all the while feeling so alone. I would stay behind afterwards and just cry with my head down on the pew; it was so awful.

Then one day, after Mass, the priest set up the monstrance for adoration. We all said the prayer, and then he left. As I looked at Jesus in the monstrance, I couldn’t believe my eyes, because as hard as I looked, I could not see the Host at all. It’s like nothing at all was there in the center of the monstrance. I looked around at the other people, and they were all praying and gazing at the monstrance like nothing was wrong… So I moved to a different spot, closer, but still, there was nothing in the monstrance! I panicked and started feeling like the devil had won—that now I could no longer even see the Eucharist right in front of my face. In one last, desperate attempt, I went to the statue of Mary in the corner of the church, and I told Mary, “I will not leave this spot until you give me your peace.” And I stood there for quite a while, until I suddenly felt her peace washing over me. All my fears, doubts, and worry vanished, and I knew God was with me.

And you want to know what happened with the monstrance? It turns out that the priest had put the piece that has the Host in it into the monstrance backwards! It took the guy who cleaned up near the altar to notice and realize the mistake, after people had been calmly praying and looking at the monstrance for over an hour! He ran and got the priest, and the priest came and turned it around… So I got to see Jesus after all.

 

[grasscutter]

Mine happened a couple of years ago, when I was 23… I have been through a lot of really bad times in my life, but I had always hung on to God and felt Him near in my suffering. Well, one day, I woke up with an awful cloud of doubt hanging over my head… It just came out of the blue! I tried to shrug it off, but it kept messing with my head, and when I talked to God I felt an oppressive emptiness. This persisted for a long time, and I actually was feeling very scared and confused and nearly panicked. When I closed my eyes, I saw awful things like black spiders crawling across my mind… I couldn’t rest; I couldn’t get any peace. I cried and begged God, Mary, the saints, my guardian angel, anyone in Heaven to help me and not abandon me like I felt. Yet I still went to daily Mass, all the while feeling so alone. I would stay behind afterwards and just cry with my head down on the pew; it was so awful.

Then one day, after Mass, the priest set up the monstrance for adoration. We all said the prayer, and then he left. As I looked at Jesus in the monstrance, I couldn’t believe my eyes, because as hard as I looked, I could not see the Host at all. It’s like nothing at all was there in the center of the monstrance. I looked around at the other people, and they were all praying and gazing at the monstrance like nothing was wrong… So I moved to a different spot, closer, but still, there was nothing in the monstrance! I panicked and started feeling like the devil had won—that now I could no longer even see the Eucharist right in front of my face. In one last, desperate attempt, I went to the statue of Mary in the corner of the church, and I told Mary, “I will not leave this spot until you give me your peace.” And I stood there for quite a while, until I suddenly felt her peace washing over me. All my fears, doubts, and worry vanished, and I knew God was with me.

And you want to know what happened with the monstrance? It turns out that the priest had put the piece that has the Host in it into the monstrance backwards! It took the guy who cleaned up near the altar to notice and realize the mistake, after people had been calmly praying and looking at the monstrance for over an hour! He ran and got the priest, and the priest came and turned it around… So I got to see Jesus after all.

Thank you so much for sharing such your amazing experience! Peace…

 

[edithsteinrocks]

Thank you so much for your replies and for sharing your stories, everyone. I haven’t given up on God because I know that he hasn’t given up on me. I just need to remember that the whole point of all this is the pearl of great price, i.e. HIM, and not me and my spiritual vagaries.

Seeking God, all the while not seeking any sort of self-satisfaction whatsoever - not even a crumb. Wow. Definitely a gift of divine grace.

 

[WoundedIcon]

Hang in there! I spent about four years in the desert, but God was trying to bring me to a place where I would throw my hands up and find the true Church. And now here I am, after asking all my questions, in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church!

 

[Claymont79]

Mine was about 4 years long. My ex-husband had wangled custody of my 2 boys out of a corrupt judge and taken them 3000 miles away just to spite me. If I hadn’t been married to my current DH at the time I would have committed suicide. It felt like my arms had been cut off and that the world had gone black. I didn’t go to work for ages, just sat around and cried on my bed (obviously deeply depressed). DH just prayed and held me all along. I did go to counseling to get through the anger but felt so desolate (I had grown up Methodist and had a strong ongoing faith). After not going to church at all for 4 years all of a sudden I decided it was time and went to my DH’s newly organized Catholic church. I felt at home and the darkness lifted right away. I was asked to carry the Gospel the 1st time I went there which I took as a sign of faith in me… It is a very spirit filled church and I converted at the 1st available opportunity and have been on fire for Catholicism ever since. The most painful experience of my life led me to the the best…

 

[edithsteinrocks]

Mine was about 4 years long. My ex-husband had wangled custody of my 2 boys out of a corrupt judge and taken them 3000 miles away just to spite me. If I hadn’t been married to my current DH at the time I would have committed suicide. It felt like my arms had been cut off and that the world had gone black. I didn’t go to work for ages, just sat around and cried on my bed (obviously deeply depressed). DH just prayed and held me all along. I did go to counseling to get through the anger but felt so desolate (I had grown up Methodist and had a strong ongoing faith). After not going to church at all for 4 years all of a sudden I decided it was time and went to my DH’s newly organized Catholic church. I felt at home and the darkness lifted right away. I was asked to carry the Gospel the 1st time I went there which I took as a sign of faith in me… It is a very spirit filled church and I converted at the 1st available opportunity and have been on fire for Catholicism ever since. The most painful experience of my life led me to the the best…

Wow. That’s beautiful. Definitely light shining through the darkness.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Joannm]

Mine was about 4 years long. My ex-husband had wangled custody of my 2 boys out of a corrupt judge and taken them 3000 miles away just to spite me. If I hadn’t been married to my current DH at the time I would have committed suicide. It felt like my arms had been cut off and that the world had gone black. I didn’t go to work for ages, just sat around and cried on my bed (obviously deeply depressed). DH just prayed and held me all along. I did go to counseling to get through the anger but felt so desolate (I had grown up Methodist and had a strong ongoing faith). After not going to church at all for 4 years all of a sudden I decided it was time and went to my DH’s newly organized Catholic church. I felt at home and the darkness lifted right away. I was asked to carry the Gospel the 1st time I went there which I took as a sign of faith in me… It is a very spirit filled church and I converted at the 1st available opportunity and have been on fire for Catholicism ever since. The most painful experience of my life led me to the the best…

While this is a wonderful story it is not a Dark Night. The Dark Night is a profoundly spiritual union with Christ that is granted to the most spiritually mature and to those already in a deep relationship with Christ. Many people confuse depression with the Dark Night. We all go thought these times of depression, some times they seem like all is lost. It sounds like with your experience, the Lord led you out of depression and you experienced consolations which brought you into the Church.

 

[Claymont79]

That may be your interpretation, but it was indeed a LONG dark night of no faith or feeling of God in my life for me so I will be calling it that regardless!

 

[DBT]

That may be your interpretation, but it was indeed a LONG dark night of no faith or feeling of God in my life for me so I will be calling it that regardless!

Joannm wasn’t giving her interpretation . . . but nicely summarizing the teaching of St. John of the Cross and who coined the term Dark Night in the first place. What the mystical Doctor describes - and what is discussed on this and most threads on this forum - are often two very different things as she points out. All of us go through times of desolation but that, in itself, does not make it a Dark NIght in how the Saints teach it.

What people sometimes don’t realize is that the trials of the Dark Night are strictly interior, deeply spiritual, largely devoid of exterior effects (ie. no one would ever know someone is going through it) and are wrought through God’s hands and not our own (i.e sinfulness, negligence etc). Thus it is a contemplative experience . . . occuring in souls graced by frequent infused prayer described by St. Teresa as the prayer states of recollection, quiet and union. In St. John’s teaching, contemplation and the Dark Nights can not be seperated . . . for they are one and the same. The Dark Nights prepare us for initial contemplation (night of sense) and lead us to transforming union (night of spirit). Thus, souls are not “beginners” in faith and prayer but are, by definition, “proficients” approaching perfection but who need a gengle nudge through God’s guiding hands to reach the highest pinnacle that is possible in this earthly life.

Imo, Joannm was just trying to bring some clarity to a term that is too often misunderstood and has taken on a very different meaning in this day and age.

My best to you,
Dave

 

[Justicia_et_Pax]

Joannm wasn’t giving her interpretation . . . but nicely summarizing the teaching of St. John of the Cross and who coined the term Dark Night in the first place. What the mystical Doctor describes - and what is discussed on this and most threads on this forum - are often two very different things as she points out. All of us go through times of desolation but that, in itself, does not make it a Dark NIght in how the Saints teach it.

What people sometimes don’t realize is that the trials of the Dark Night are strictly interior, deeply spiritual, largely devoid of exterior effects (ie. no one would ever know someone is going through it) and are wrought through God’s hands and not our own (i.e sinfulness, negligence etc). Thus it is a contemplative experience . . . occuring in souls graced by frequent infused prayer described by St. Teresa as the prayer states of recollection, quiet and union. In St. John’s teaching, contemplation and the Dark Nights can not be seperated . . . for they are one and the same. The Dark Nights prepare us for initial contemplation (night of sense) and lead us to transforming union (night of spirit). Thus, souls are not “beginners” in faith and prayer but are, by definition, “proficients” approaching perfection but who need a gengle nudge through God’s guiding hands to reach the highest pinnacle that is possible in this earthly life.

Imo, Joannm was just trying to bring some clarity to a term that is too often misunderstood and has taken on a very different meaning in this day and age.

My best to you,
Dave

Do you believe a dark night of the senses can sit alongside mental illness? I believe I went through a dark night of the senses but don’t want to post if my experience is going to be labelled as part of my illness

 

[DBT]

Do you believe a dark night of the senses can sit alongside mental illness? I believe I went through a dark night of the senses but don’t want to post if my experience is going to be labelled as part of my illness

Yes, the Dark Night and depression can occur at the same time. And many go through the night of sense . . . relatively few the night of spirit.

On the surface, depression and the nights may appear the same . . . but they are not. Both St. John and Teresa go to great lenghs to differentiate “melancolia” (which is natural in origin) from the trials of the night (which is supernatural in origin). And far too often, spiritual directors mis-diagnose the two.

Fr. Dubay has a wonderful comparison of depression and the dark nights in his excellent book “Fire Within.” Paraphrasing from page 163 of my copy:

Characteristics of mental/emotional problems: excessive introspection, self concern and self analysis. The person can’t get their mind of their problem.

Unrealism. The depressed person’'s situation seems hopeless and dismal which manifests itself, at times, as clinical depression.

Mental problems are often difficult to heal and require years of therapy sometimes with only modest results. The person may be unable to perform the duties of their state in life at certain times.

Chronic fatigue and insomnia can coincide and fixing attention to one’s duties is often difficult.

Most importantly mental problems, in of themselves, do not promote virtue or a deepening relationship with God.

Compare that to the Dark Night:

Characteristics of the Dark Night: Little or no introspection and little awareness of the problem outside prayer itself. The person’s focus is habitually directed toward God and neighbor . . . rarely on oneself.

The pains of the dark night are objectively founded (ie. realistic) due to our inherent weaknesses and imperfection . . . of which we are aware. We know we are being purified.

There is no depression at all: Individuals are fully functioning in all aspects of their life, often cheefully accepting. No one would ever know just by observing the person.

Little or no anxiety regarding the situation once it is made known to the individual by a competent spiritual director.

No problems with fatigue or fixing of attention to the needs of life (although attention at prayer can be extremely difficult). These souls are highly functioning and not debilitated in any way from the duties of their state in life.

The purpose of the night is specifically designed to lead the soul to great leaps in love, humility and all the virtues.

These few extracts really don’t do it justice . . . I highly recommend his book, this chapter in particular.

Hope this helps,
Dave

 

[Justicia_et_Pax]

Yes, the Dark Night and depression can occur at the same time. And many go through the night of sense . . . relatively few the night of spirit.

On the surface, depression and the nights may appear the same . . . but they are not. Both St. John and Teresa go to great lenghs to differentiate “melancolia” (which is natural in origin) from the trials of the night (which is supernatural in origin). And far too often, spiritual directors mis-diagnose the two.

Fr. Dubay has a wonderful comparison of depression and the dark nights in his excellent book “Fire Within.” Paraphrasing from page 163 of my copy:

Characteristics of mental/emotional problems: excessive introspection, self concern and self analysis. The person can’t get their mind of their problem.

Unrealism. The depressed person’'s situation seems hopeless and dismal which manifests itself, at times, as clinical depression.

Mental problems are often difficult to heal and require years of therapy sometimes with only modest results. The person may be unable to perform the duties of their state in life at certain times.

Chronic fatigue and insomnia can coincide and fixing attention to one’s duties is often difficult.

Most importantly mental problems, in of themselves, do not promote virtue or a deepening relationship with God.

Compare that to the Dark Night:

Characteristics of the Dark Night: Little or no introspection and little awareness of the problem outside prayer itself. The person’s focus is habitually directed toward God and neighbor . . . rarely on oneself.

The pains of the dark night are objectively founded (ie. realistic) due to our inherent weaknesses and imperfection . . . of which we are aware. We know we are being purified.

There is no depression at all: Individuals are fully functioning in all aspects of their life, often cheefully accepting. No one would ever know just by observing the person.

Little or no anxiety regarding the situation once it is made known to the individual by a competent spiritual director.

No problems with fatigue or fixing of attention to the needs of life (although attention at prayer can be extremely difficult). These souls are highly functioning and not debilitated in any way from the duties of their state in life.

The purpose of the night is specifically designed to lead the soul to great leaps in love, humility and all the virtues.

These few extracts really don’t do it justice . . . I highly recommend his book, this chapter in particular.

Hope this helps,
Dave

Thanks very much for taking the time to write all that out: it’s much appreciated I’m hoping to buy that book when I have some more money

 

[Joannm]

I have never read the book either even though I have most of John of the Cross’ works. It sounds like he takes John and makes it easy to understand, especially the part that you quoted.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

While this is a wonderful story it is not a Dark Night. The Dark Night is a profoundly spiritual union with Christ that is granted to the most spiritually mature and to those already in a deep relationship with Christ. Many people confuse depression with the Dark Night. We all go thought these times of depression, some times they seem like all is lost. It sounds like with your experience, the Lord led you out of depression and you experienced consolations which brought you into the Church.

I think we can get hung up on technical definitions of a “dark night of the soul”. Granted, someone like John of the Cross, who I think coined the term, may have a mystical dark night which is of a different quality to that of the ordinary Christian, but anytime that God seems distant, and particularly in a crisis, can be regarded as a “dark night of the soul”.

What would you say to Alexander Solzenhitsyn suffering cancer in a Soviet Gular, or Dietrich Bonhoeffer in a Nazi cell… sorry, you’re not having a dark night of the soul, it’s just a negative experience? As my old pastor said to me once, He (God) doesn’t seem to help His own people much. Someone above quoted their story about losing her children to her first husband via a corrupt judge. God might have used the incident to bring her to a more spiritual church, but He hasn’t given her back her children.

There’s a dichotomy here - God’s power is evident in the universe He’s made, but when it comes to human affairs, as Bonhoeffer wrote, He let His creature Man push Him out of the world on a cross. For several years now, 100,000 unborn children have been killed every year in Australia, and what, really, has God done to stop it? Not much, as I read the record.

So a “dark night of the soul” doesn’t need to be a mystical experience. God can be extremely disappointing and disillusioning at times.

 

[DBT]

Truly God works in mysterious ways. Scripture is full of examples how He humbles in order to exalt. He gives consolation to show His love and desolation so that we may prove ours. He will use any and every means necessary to bring us to our knees so that we may learn to seek deeper relationship with Him. And one need not be a mystic to be brought to perfection.

That having been said, distinctions are important. Why? Because the remedies one would apply employ differ based on the circumstances. If a soul is plunged into darkness and suffering due to natural causes like illness or it’s own sinfulness and negligence; the course of action would be very different than if one is suffering trials passively given . . . that is, through the hand of God.

St. John of the Cross, great director of souls that he was, knew this intimately. Understanding and describing distinctions was a large part of why he wrote. So too St. Teresa. They understood the differences between darkness of a natural origin vs the supernatural. And their works are filled with page after page after page of examples of spiritual directors who didn’t grasp these distinctions and ended up causing irreparable harm.

No one was trying to belittle anyone’s experience or suffering they might have gone through . . . in fact, the opposite is true. At the same time, though, it’s important to put into context what the Saints meant when they used the terms they did. Those terms point us in the direction we must seek to avail ourselves of the circumstances we find ourselves in. I have seen from personal experience souls given the wrong spiritual advice based on a misunderstanding and/or misapplication of what the Saints teach. And the result is never very pretty.

Dave

 

[Cara_Serrano]

DBT, thanks for recommending “Fire Within” by Fr Dubay and “Dark Night of the Soul” by St John of the Cross to clarify what the dark night is. I think people use this term when they really mean a period of terrible trials or personal tragedy where they don’t feel God’s presence and even doubt His existence. Terrible things happen in everyone’s life sooner or later, regardless of their faith, but the dark night is something different.

For the beginner, may I also recommend “Prayer Primer; Igniting a Fire Within” by Fr Dubay (Ignatius Press, 2002) as a place to start before tackling “Fire Within”.