Your faith vs. Golden Rule

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StrawberryJam said:
When christians talk about loving their enemies, why do they think that is strictly a christian quality? I’m thinking of just one thing right now that I consider loving an enemy that happened to my family late last year. My cousin was killed by a drunk driver. The teenager who killed her asked to come to the funeral, was very remorseful of what he had done. Our family was in shock and devastated, confused and angry but when we saw how that teenager was hurting so much also we were able to forgive him. Well, most of us anyway. 😦
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God is there, working in people’s lives, whether you believe it or not. 🙂
 
For me living by the Golden Rule is the most integral part of what faith really is…faith is not something one believes…faith is something one does…how one lives…how one responds to this world we live in. Faith is living with the assumption that God is in control and eventually all things will work together for His purpose.

Faith is not a set of doctrines and dogmas…nor is faith a set of moral postulates that one adheres to…they may be part of that faith…but they are not the primary mode of being a faithful person…how we treat others…how we live sharing in His Incarnation is where faith meets the real world…in real expressions of faith that impact the world in which we live.

A kind word…a gentle deed…a loving touch are more important than the doctrine of “Trinity”, “substutionary atonement”, “escatological specualtions”.

I may not like how a person lives…I may not like what they do…whom they have a relationship with…whom they love…that is my issue not theirs…my response to them must reflect the Life of Christ alive in me for my “faith” to have any merit or meaning. I may be led to express my belief they need repentance…but it is my responsibility to make that call of repentance in a loving manner…not with judgement and harshness…I does not matter how the scriptures portrayed Jesus or Paul or Peter doing it…I am not Jesus or Paul or Peter…each of us must find the expression of faith within ourselves…we most certainly can learn from others on how to do this…but I must speak Truth in the Light I have…I do not rest on the laurels of those who have gone before me…the responsibility of how to live in faith is mine.

“Do unto others as you would have others do to you” begins and ends with me…that is where my faith response is my responsibility…and when I fail…there is grace.
 
Dale_M said:
I understand the appeal of that perspective, although I would select Jesus’ saying that the two greatest commandments are to love God with all our heart and love our neighbor as ourself. This saying is very similar to the Golden Rule, it just is the saying which speaks to me.
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Loving God with everything you got, is the same thing as loving your neighbor. (short and simple )

:signofcross:, if you love god with all your hear, with literraly EVERYTHING!!! the Commandments would showthemselves to you be nature.
 
StrawberryJam said:
I agree with Gottle of Geer that it is impossible to do. We are only human after all.
But even a human can see how this is not good in any way or means, in the real way- it is never enough for this bloodthirsty god to end this “plan” with all this suffering, that for him is never enough.

More blood.

I don’t like this God and he scares me.

I like things Jesus said, but they were not that original really.
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 God our father can turn the greatest evil in great good.  There are uses for suffering. Some peoples vocations are to suffer, they simple have a problem, it isn't punishment for sin, but it just happens. (Read the book of Job) (Old testament) (reveals alot about suffering) Suffering can be used to save people. maybe one day, after death, god will show a crowd of people (you picture the size) you say you don't recognize them, god would say: these are the people saved by your suffering...
Suffer WITH Christ and it is a great tool.
 
I’m seeking out reasons why people of faith consider their faith superior to the Golden Rule.
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Because the golden rule is just one aspect of being a moral person. Obeying just the golden rule and ignoring the rest would be like studying only calculus before a test.
I am wondering if your faith gives you a superior method of carrying out this task.
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It does. With a religious motivation I am much more kind and respectful than I used to be. I am also more giving and charitable. Finally, I believe that without religion you can’t carry out the golden rule to it’s fullest
 
StrawberryJam said:
I did not say faith was against being kind and respectful. 😦 I am getting the impression you think I am trying to say that though.😦

What made it superior? This is what I am not getting a clear idea about from anyone.
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Faith puts the golden rule in its proper context. Without faith, the golden rule, and love in general is reduced to some mushy emotionalism. It is deflated of all its meaning.
 
jimmy said:
Faith puts the golden rule in its proper context. Without faith, the golden rule, and love in general is reduced to some mushy emotionalism. It is deflated of all its meaning.
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Timbothefiveth:
Because the golden rule is just one aspect of being a moral person. Obeying just the golden rule and ignoring the rest would be like studying only calculus before a test.

It does. With a religious motivation I am much more kind and respectful than I used to be. I am also more giving and charitable. Finally, I believe that without religion you can’t carry out the golden rule to it’s fullest .
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StrawberryJam:
When christians talk about loving their enemies, why do they think that is strictly a christian quality? I’m thinking of just one thing right now that I consider loving an enemy that happened to my family late last year. My cousin was killed by a drunk driver. The teenager who killed her asked to come to the funeral, was very remorseful of what he had done. Our family was in shock and devastated, confused and angry but when we saw how that teenager was hurting so much also we were able to forgive him. Well, most of us anyway.
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My sympathy to you about your late cousin. It’s truly admirable about the forgiveness you had for the killer.

Generally human cannot forgive, to put it mildly. Actual fact - human cannot forgive for forgiveness is divine (they say; and it’s true). (Forgiveness is a big subject but) to be able to forgive is not just forgive the person but to actively love him with no residual resentment in the heart of the forgiver. We are able to forgive over small matter but almost impossible in big one. A girl that had been living in total sexual abuse by her father all her life would find it impossible to forgive him; not saying it will affect her personality and outlook in her life.

The difference is, people of faith can forgive - not by their own strength but by the grace of God.

This is what grace means - empowerment that makes us able to do the thing we cannot do on our own strength. And as been said, it is given freely .

The GR is difficult to achieve but somehow made possible by the grace of God - somehow a person of faith is able to harness that extra power to practice the GR absolutely.

I guess that’s the difference: people of faith depend on God’s strength and grace otherwise we will only depend on our own strength which is not much.

God bless you.
 
To demonstrate the almost impossiblity of forgivess:

Would you forgive the killer if he had not shown remorse over his act; if he miantianed his agrresiveness and justified his action; if he repeated his action and killed another member of your family; if he showed hostility and mockery to you, etc. ?

(Christians are asked to forgive without condition because revenge is the Lord).
 
Reuben_J said:
To demonstrate the almost impossiblity of forgivess:

Would you forgive the killer if he had not shown remorse over his act; if he miantianed his agrresiveness and justified his action; if he repeated his action and killed another member of your family; if he showed hostility and mockery to you, etc. ?

(Christians are asked to forgive without condition because revenge is the Lord).
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No, I would not have forgiven if he was like that. And, I don’t think there is a single reason for anyone to forgive under those circumstances.
 
it is never enough for this bloodthirsty god to end this “plan” with all this suffering, that for him is never enough.
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What? Bloodthirsty? God created the univerese, life, etc, and humans rejected Him via sin. Despite this, He’s still gracious enough to forgive us for everything, sacrifice His own son for us, and offer us a chance at salvation, despite all we’ve done. That doesn’t sound bloodthirsty to me.

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I like things Jesus said, but they were not that original really.
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Read the Gospel. There are a lot of original concepts. Also, a lot of what isn’t very original, perhaps all, is building off God’s earlier instructions.
Would you forgive the killer if he had not shown remorse over his act; if he miantianed his agrresiveness and justified his action; if he repeated his action and killed another member of your family; if he showed hostility and mockery to you, etc. ?
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Hopefully. I think that you can if you put your mind to it.
No, I would not have forgiven if he was like that. And, I don’t think there is a single reason for anyone to forgive under those circumstances.
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There are 2 good reasons at least. The first is that God has forgiven me for my sins, so I should forgive others. The second is that being angry and hatefull all my life won’t do any good. Forgiveness in general makes you a happier person.
 
The originality of Christ is not in anything that he said, it is Himself. He is God made man. God became man and emptied Himself of His glory because He loved the world. There is nothing more original than that.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Not famillar with who St. Therese is, or the “Little Way”. But, if it is a version of the golden rule, I will search her on the site.

I agree the golden rule is impossible, but I will still use that as my guide and it’s urgent to me because I don’t believe there is a god who hears prayers to help, and I don’t believe things work out in an afterlife. So now is the time, there is no other to do this work in.

I hope your question was not a test!😊 Not good at those.
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Sorry 😦 To clarify: St. Therese of Lisieux:​

was a 19th-century French nun, & her Little Way - see the link for more info - is an approach to the Christian life.

No, no test.
 
StrawberryJam said:
I’m seeking out reasons why people of faith consider their faith superior to the Golden Rule.

Any reasons at all.🙂
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I like the way Hillel and Jesus described the relationship between faith and the Golden Rule: “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. This is the whole Scriptures. The rest is commentary. Go and learn.”
 
Eucharisted said:
I like the way Hillel and Jesus described the relationship between faith and the Golden Rule: “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. This is the whole Scriptures. The rest is commentary. Go and learn.”
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I don’t know who Hillel is, but I guess I will find out now. Sounds like a philosopher?

I do believe that we must do rightly by all in our capacity to do so, and strive to help where we can and are able to.
 
jimmy said:
The originality of Christ is not in anything that he said, it is Himself. He is God made man. God became man and emptied Himself of His glory because He loved the world. There is nothing more original than that.
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You have not given any justifications for any of these ideas. Just thought I would note that for you.

But, anyway, he really did have a really orginal idea, which if you do your own spiritual experiments, you will find can result in a miracle.

He said love your enemies. Remember this in a bad situation, put your love of God foremost, and then reflect on the loving respect that you have for the transgressor. God will be open to suggestions, that will change a bad situation.
 
geometer said:
You have not given any justifications for any of these ideas. Just thought I would note that for you.

But, anyway, he really did have a really orginal idea, which if you do your own spiritual experiments, you will find can result in a miracle.

He said love your enemies. Remember this in a bad situation, put your love of God foremost, and then reflect on the loving respect that you have for the transgressor. God will be open to suggestions, that will change a bad situation.
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:confused:

Can you explain this to me in terms I can try to understand?
 
geometer said:
You have not given any justifications for any of these ideas. Just thought I would note that for you.

But, anyway, he really did have a really orginal idea, which if you do your own spiritual experiments, you will find can result in a miracle.

He said love your enemies. Remember this in a bad situation, put your love of God foremost, and then reflect on the loving respect that you have for the transgressor. God will be open to suggestions, that will change a bad situation.
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What are you talking about? What needs justification? That Jesus is God become man? That is the essence of the Christian faith. No one else has said that the eternal, uncreated, and ineffable God became a mortal and created man. That is absolutely unique to Christianity. You might be able to find someone calling someone a god but that is not the same idea as the incarnation and enfleshing of the eternal God which Christianity professes.

Or are you protesting against the idea that what Christ said wasn’t original? I wasn’t necessarily saying that what He said wasn’t original; I was simply saying that the primary thing about Jesus is the incarnation, God become man. There is no possible greater revelation of God than that He would make Himself visible to our senses. God became man and He was seen by men, touched by them, and heard by them. There is nothing greater than to actually experience the superessential God.
 
jimmy said:
What are you talking about? What needs justification? That Jesus is God become man? That is the essence of the Christian faith. No one else has said that the eternal, uncreated, and ineffable God became a mortal and created man. That is absolutely unique to Christianity. You might be able to find someone calling someone a god but that is not the same idea as the incarnation and enfleshing of the eternal God which Christianity professes.
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Are you saying the God of the Hebrews was not God?
 
StrawberryJam said:
I don’t know who Hillel is, but I guess I will find out now. Sounds like a philosopher?

I do believe that we must do rightly by all in our capacity to do so, and strive to help where we can and are able to.
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Hillel is one of the Rabbi’s quoted in the Talmud. He is from the first or second century.
 
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