Your favorite Apocrypha? Why? What Value do you put with it?

[firstmode]

Ok, let me just start with my answers and then I believe you guys will understand what I am asking:

THE APOCALYPSE OF PETER: I think this book is an interesting perspective on Hell, eternal torment and punishment, and it was held close to equal to the book of Revelation according to the Muratorian Cannon and Was listed by others as a valuable book.

THE BOOK OF ENOCH: I love how this book describes the angels that rebel against God, create the giants through intercourse with human females, and how it describes a lot of the gaps when it comes to the evil knowledge of unknown things, astrology, and religion coming from these fallen angels. I believe that the fallen angels did have intercourse with human females and that they did bore giants. Canonized by the Ethiopian Christians in the Bible Cannon.

THE PROTOVANGELION OF JAMES, THE GOSPEL OF MARY, THE INFANCY GOSPELS I AND II: I enjoy reading the gaps filled in about Mary and Josephs lives, Mary’s parents, and stories about Jesus as a baby to a young child. I do not believe much can be gleaned from these sources that is real information about the lives of Mary, Joseph, and Jesus, but I found them very interesting reads, none the less.

THE GOSPEL OF NICODEMUS: I enjoyed the explanation of where Jesus went after he died, how he freed the saints from Limbo, tore down the gates of hell, confronted Satan and the Prince of Hell, etc. I do not believe much can be gleamed from this document that is truth due to how late it was written, but I enjoyed reading it much.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I like the book of Enoch. I think it is also referenced in scripture if I am not mistaken.

I think it holds the most weight from that perspective., not a spiritual one though.

 

[benidict]

Ok, let me just start with my answers and then I believe you guys will understand what I am asking:

THE APOCALYPSE OF PETER: I think this book is an interesting perspective on Hell, eternal torment and punishment, and it was held close to equal to the book of Revelation according to the Muratorian Cannon and Was listed by others as a valuable book.

THE BOOK OF ENOCH: I love how this book describes the angels that rebel against God, create the giants through intercourse with human females, and how it describes a lot of the gaps when it comes to the evil knowledge of unknown things, astrology, and religion coming from these fallen angels. I believe that the fallen angels did have intercourse with human females and that they did bore giants. Canonized by the Ethiopian Christians in the Bible Cannon.

THE PROTOVANGELION OF JAMES, THE GOSPEL OF MARY, THE INFANCY GOSPELS I AND II: I enjoy reading the gaps filled in about Mary and Josephs lives, Mary’s parents, and stories about Jesus as a baby to a young child. I do not believe much can be gleaned from these sources that is real information about the lives of Mary, Joseph, and Jesus, but I found them very interesting reads, none the less.

THE GOSPEL OF NICODEMUS: I enjoyed the explanation of where Jesus went after he died, how he freed the saints from Limbo, tore down the gates of hell, confronted Satan and the Prince of Hell, etc. I do not believe much can be gleamed from this document that is truth due to how late it was written, but I enjoyed reading it much.

hi first mode. if this includes the deutricanacle books, i would have to say its a toss up between 1rst Machabees and the book of wisdom. the book of wisdom for its stunning prophecies on the passion of Christ. and the book of Machabees for its historical content, especially about antiochus epiphanus, who fuflilled daniel chapter 8.

 

[eucharisteo]

hi first mode. if this includes the deutricanacle books, i would have to say its a toss up between 1rst Machabees and the book of wisdom. the book of wisdom for its stunning prophecies on the passion of Christ. and the book of Machabees for its historical content, especially about antiochus epiphanus, who fuflilled daniel chapter 8.

Now why would you, a Catholic, and Benedictine especially, agree to fall into this, saying that Machabees and Wisdom are apocrypha, when they’re not. Look at the KJF 1611 edition. It’s containe within it. Then read Church history on how the bible came about and then the Protestants took them out. When I was Protestant I would read out of my Catholic bible that I kept. I even remember quoting something out of Wisdom and everyone looked at me really strange. And then I remembered, they don’t accept these books from my Catholic bible. Maybe I should have ripped those pages out of my bibile to make a point and said, “well, that’s what ya’ll did 500 years ago. Byt the way I don’t like the last book either” and then rip it out too. Just had to correct admonish a brethren. I like Sirach by the way, but I don’t consider it apocrypha.

 

[benidict]

Now why would you, a Catholic, and Benedictine especially, agree to fall into this, saying that Machabees and Wisdom are apocrypha, when they’re not. Look at the KJF 1611 edition. It’s containe within it. Then read Church history on how the bible came about and then the Protestants took them out. When I was Protestant I would read out of my Catholic bible that I kept. I even remember quoting something out of Wisdom and everyone looked at me really strange. And then I remembered, they don’t accept these books from my Catholic bible. Maybe I should have ripped those pages out of my bibile to make a point and said, “well, that’s what ya’ll did 500 years ago. Byt the way I don’t like the last book either” and then rip it out too. Just had to correct admonish a brethren. I like Sirach by the way, but I don’t consider it apocrypha.

and i thank you for your admonishment my brother. also am a former protestant. still mistakenly call these books apocrypha at times.lol! appreciate the correction. love in Christ and may He bless you and yours. p.s. i love the book of Sirach too.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Now why would you, a Catholic, and Benedictine especially, agree to fall into this, saying that Machabees and Wisdom are apocrypha, when they’re not. Look at the KJF 1611 edition. It’s containe within it. Then read Church history on how the bible came about and then the Protestants took them out. When I was Protestant I would read out of my Catholic bible that I kept. I even remember quoting something out of Wisdom and everyone looked at me really strange. And then I remembered, they don’t accept these books from my Catholic bible. Maybe I should have ripped those pages out of my bibile to make a point and said, “well, that’s what ya’ll did 500 years ago. Byt the way I don’t like the last book either” and then rip it out too. Just had to correct admonish a brethren. I like Sirach by the way, but I don’t consider it apocrypha.

Just read what benidict posted again. He used the proper term deutrocanonical.

He is not recanting his catholic beliefs, simply talking about the books the reformers took out. Not the books that the OP is talking about.

 

[Eucharisted]

Dose Bel and the Dragon fit in? I liked the sarcasm of the ending, how the dragon gets fed cakes and than explodes, and Daniel goes, “See that? That’s what you worship.”

And before anyone claims idols can’t eat food: Before Jesus came, Satan had full power. He would cause people’s idols to move, speak, and eat food so that it seemed like they were real.

 

[benidict]

Dose Bel and the Dragon fit in? I liked the sarcasm of the ending, how the dragon gets fed cakes and than explodes, and Daniel goes, “See that? That’s what you worship.”

And before anyone claims idols can’t eat food: Before Jesus came, Satan had full power. He would cause people’s idols to move, speak, and eat food so that it seemed like they were real.

that is my understanding too. Jesus broke much of the devils power with his death and resurrection. amen to that. now we just need to await his promise of our final deliverance with his second coming. thankfully we can experience him in the Eucharist and in the fellowship of the saints as we wait!

 

[firstmode]

Hey Guys, great posts!

I was not referencing the Deuterocanonical books as Apocrypha. I respect the Deuterocanonical books as very edifying but not inspired. I would not put them in the same regard as Apocrypha so to speak.

Do you guys have any favorites from the Apocrypha NOT INCLUDING the Deuterocannon ?

I respect the book of Jubilees and Enoch very much. I do believe there is useful information to be gleamed from them, but they are not inspired.

I also like:

THE ACTS OF PAUL AND THECLA: I like the story of this Apocrypha, the miracles, and just the general life story of Thecla and where she ends up at the end.

 

[eucharisteo]

and i thank you for your admonishment my brother. also am a former protestant. still mistakenly call these books apocrypha at times.lol! appreciate the correction. love in Christ and may He bless you and yours. p.s. i love the book of Sirach too.

notice the big grin. I was clowning around…I’m accused of dry humor quite often and nobody gets my dumb humor except for a few select. Can’t help myself. I went to a seminary run by Benidictine Monks. If you know the OSB then you also know that they study scripture more uniquely than others I know. Their spirituality seems to hover around the scriptures. They pray the scriptures. So its my humorous way of acting like I’m correcting you, knowing you know better. I also took the opportunity to educate what I learned just 3 years ago. Sharing it with my Protestant brothers and sister that may not have learned this yet. I too converted or reverted after thinking Catholics were doomed to hell. Long story and not the place. Thanks for the blessings and sorry if I offended you. Just kidding around. I get in weird moods late at night.
PAX
Sometimes I refer to CCD as bible class and our parish as church. My tendency is to still refer to the church we attend as the congregation and our priests as elders. I still choke on pastor. I’ve overcome calling those non-married men without children elders out of habit. My father-in-law and brother-in-law are elders, which in my former faith are the same as bishops.

 

[Nine_Two]

The Passion of Perpetua and Felicity has been one of my favorites for some time. It is pseudopigraphia so I don’t put much weight on what it says, but it does tell us quite a bit about the early Christian mindset, and what these people had to go through to convert.

 

[benidict]

notice the big grin. I was clowning around…I’m accused of dry humor quite often and nobody gets my dumb humor except for a few select. Can’t help myself. I went to a seminary run by Benidictine Monks. If you know the OSB then you also know that they study scripture more uniquely than others I know. Their spirituality seems to hover around the scriptures. They pray the scriptures. So its my humorous way of acting like I’m correcting you, knowing you know better. I also took the opportunity to educate what I learned just 3 years ago. Sharing it with my Protestant brothers and sister that may not have learned this yet. I too converted or reverted after thinking Catholics were doomed to hell. Long story and not the place. Thanks for the blessings and sorry if I offended you. Just kidding around. I get in weird moods late at night.
PAX
Sometimes I refer to CCD as bible class and our parish as church. My tendency is to still refer to the church we attend as the congregation and our priests as elders. I still choke on pastor. I’ve overcome calling those non-married men without children elders out of habit. My father-in-law and brother-in-law are elders, which in my former faith are the same as bishops.

hi eucharisteo. nope not offended at all. kinda hard to do. drove truck for eleven years, and now im in the u.s. army. i take lots worse on a daily basis. lol. anyhow, i must say i envy you. didnt believe i had the dicsipline necessary to even look into a benidictine monastary. even tho i am very attracted to the rule and all it entails. i figured the military would give me a way to start gaining the dicsipline i would need if im ever blessed enough to join one of these orders. i also have a strong leanings toward st. francis of assisi. the lives of these men are increcdible. what they gave up and what they suffered on behalf of the cross! really wish i had been educated by benadictine monks instead of the protestant upbringing i had. but in some ways im greatful for that too. glad you reverted. Catholocism is not just the true Church it is a beautiful inspired form of worship. im attempting to learn latin so i can even more appreciate it. God bless you and yours.

 

[Pons]

The Apocrypha are basically Jewish and Christian fan fiction.

 

[firstmode]

The Apocrypha are basically Jewish and Christian fan fiction.

Many of the Catholic Church’s Traditions that are kept as highly regarded as the Scriptures come from Apocryphal and Pseudepigraphical works.

We get the name of Mary’s parents, her birth and childhood, Stories of John the baptists parents, additions to the Miracle Virgin Birth in Bethlehem, and stories of Jesus’s Childhood from the narratives in the Gospel of the Birth of Mary, the protovangelon of James, First Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ, and Second Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ According to Thomas.

We get the names of various characters such as the centurion that had charge of guarding the burial site of Christ after the resurrection - Petronius (Gsp. of Peter), We get the names of the criminals crucified on either side of Christ - Dimas on his right hand and Gestas on the left (Gsp. of Nicodemus) OR Titus and Dumachus according to the Infancy Gospel. We get the name of the solder who pierced Jesus side with a spear - Longinus (Gsp. of Nicodemus), etc.

Also, from the Protovangelon of James we get the information that Joseph, Jesus’s father, was much older than Mary, had children from a previous marriage, and that Mary kept her virginity until the end.

The Gospel of Peter has some different traditions as well:

There are indeed twenty-nine variations of fact between this Gospel According to Peter and the four canonical gospels. Some of the most important that the reader will note are as follows: 1) Herod was the one who gave the order for the execution. 2) Joseph (of Arimathaea) was a friend of Pilate. 3) In the darkness many went about with lamps and fell down. (That is a startling glimpse of the confusion that seized the people.) 4) Christ’s cry of “My power, my power.” 5) The account of how the disciples had to hide because they were searched for on suspicion of plotting to set fire to the temple. 6) The name of the centurion who kept watch at the tomb was Petronius. 7) The Resurrection and Ascension seem recorded (in verse 5) not as separate events but as occurring on the same day.

Also, Jesus Christ destroying the chains and throwing open the gates to free the Fathers from Limbo is described in great detail in (The Gospel of Nicodemus).

 

[firstmode]

The Apocrypha are basically Jewish and Christian fan fiction.

Also, the Book of Enoch and the Book of Jubilees greatly detail the giants that were birthed from the intercourse of Angels and human females. As well, as the fall of the angels, the reason behind it, and the names of all the bad and good angels.

Where do you think the Catholic Church gets all the names of angels that are used as church tradition?

Only 4 angels are mentioned in the Bible:

Michael—Daniel 10:13, 10:21, 11:1, 12:1; Jude 1:9, Rev. 12:7.

Gabriel—Daniel 8:16-18; Luke 1:19, 1:26, 1:28.

Two unholy angels are named: Apollyon, the angel of the abyss in Revelation 9:11 (the Hebrew term is Abaddon), and Satan, who is an evil, fallen angel.

Only 1 angel is mentioned in the deuterocannon:

Raphael—Tobit

 

[firstmode]

Book of Enoch - Names of the fallen angels:

These are the names of their chiefs: Samyaza, who was their leader, Urakabarameel, Akibeel, Tamiel, Ramuel, Danel, Azkeel, Saraknyal, Asael, Armers, Batraal, Anane, Zavebe, Samsaveel, Ertael, Turel, Yomyael, Azazyel (also known as Azazel). These were the prefects of the two hundred angels, and the remainder were all with them. (Enoch 7:9)

Grigori
The Grigori are a group of fallen angels told of in Biblical apocrypha who mated with mortal women, giving rise to a race of giants known as the Nephilim. Also known as “Watchers” (from Greek egrḗgoroi), the Grigori appear in the books of Enoch and Jubilees. According to the Book of Enoch, the Grigori numbered a total of 200 but only their leaders are named: These are the names of their chiefs: Samyaza, who was their leader, Urakabarameel, Akibeel, Tamiel, Ramuel, Danel, Azkeel, Saraknyal, Asael, Armers, Batraal, Anane, Zavebe, Samsaveel, Ertael, Turel, Yomyael, Azazyel (also known as Azazel). These were the prefects of the two hundred angels, and the remainder were all with them. (Enoch 7:9)

The angels named Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel go before Yahveh with evidence to execute judgement on the fallen angels for their lawless deeds. Raphael was then assigned by Yahveh to “bind Azazel’s hands and feet; cast him into the darkness and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dudael. Place rough and jagged rocks over him; cover him with darkness, let him abide there forever (i.e. for the alloted time) and cover his face so that he may not see light. Azazel will be cast into the fire on the Great Day of the Judgement” according to Enoch 9:3-6. The story then claims that “the whole world has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel; ascribe [the] sin (blame) [of the violence (see Genesis 6:5)] to him”.

Azazel - Azazel in the Apocalypse of Abraham
In the Apocalypse of Abraham, Azazel is portrayed as an unclean bird which came down upon the sacrifice which Abraham prepared. This is in reference to Genesis 15:11 “Birds of prey came down upon the carcasses, and Abram drove them away.” “And the unclean bird spoke to me and said, ‘What are you doing, Abraham, on the holy heights, where no one eats or drinks, nor is there upon them food for men. But these all will be consumed by fire and ascend to the height, they will destroy you.’ And it came to pass when I saw the bird speaking I said this to the angel: ‘What is this, my lord?’ And he said, ‘This is disgrace, this is Azazel!’ And he said to him, 'Shame on you Azazel! For Abraham’s portion is in heaven, and yours is on earth, for you have selected here, (and) become enamored of the dwelling place of your blemish. Therefore the Eternal Ruler, the Mighty One, has given you a dwelling on earth. Through you the all-evil spirit (is) a liar, and through you (are) wrath and trials on the generations of men who live impiously.” - Apocalypse of Abraham 13:4-9

The Apocalypse of Abraham also associates Azazel with Hell. Abraham says to him “May you be the firebrand of the furnace of the earth! Go, Azazel, into the untrodden parts of the earth. For your heritage is over those who are with you” (14:5-6) There is also the idea that God’s heritage (the created world) is largely under the dominion of evil. It is “shared with Azazel” (20:5) Azazel is also identified with the serpent which tempted Eve. His form is described as a dragon with “hands and feet like a man’s, on his back six wings on the right and six on the left.” (23:7)

Finally, the Apocalypse of Abraham says that the wicked will “putrefy in the belly of the crafty worm Azazel, and be burned by the fire of Azazel’s tongue.” (31:5) Here again, there is another reference to Azazel as being Hell.

 

[firstmode]

THE THREE ARCHANGELS

The Sacred Scriptures have revealed the proper names of only three Angels, all of whom belong to the Choir of the Archangels. The names are well known to all, namely: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael. Ancient apocryphal literature of the Old Testament contains several other names of Archangels in addition to the three just mentioned. Like the sources themselves, these other names are spurious. Names like Uriel, Raguel, Sariel, and Jeremiel are not found in the canonical books of Sacred Scripture, but in the apocryphal book of Enoch, fourth book of Esdras,[1] and in rabbinical literature

 

[eucharisteo]

**HAPPY VETERANS DAY!!!
**I served active duty Army from 1985 to 1989. Missed Desert Shield by 6 months. I served in the National Guard for another 6 in and out, OCS at one point but too proud of my stripes and resigned. After 911 and the Iraq War kicked off I joined back up and was preparing for deployement but chronic injuries from active duty and illnesses prevented me from deploying, which was a good thing because we would have certainly lost our home because my wife was ill too and no family to help us. We had 3 young children at the time and no one to take care of them if something worse happened to my wife. What made not going feel less guilty was the fact that 100 of us were not deployed for various health related reasons. I was released on March 2005, effective my ETS date of Sept 2003, but didn’t receive the orders or even notice until July 2005. The Guard was still trying to get me to come back. I was given a couple of choices, one was applying for disability, which I declined because I work in civil engineering and didn’t see a reason to do this so that other veterans in more need would have a better chance of receiving the help they need.
My son talked about how neat it would be to become a Franciscan. Had I been able to do this all over I would have considered becoming a Monk or Friar even. Our pastor is a TOR Franciscan Friar as well as some of his brothers in and around our parish. We have several relics, one from the “real cross”, and another from St. Francis of Assisi. The other would give away my location more precisely, which I’m not comfortable doing because of past posts struggling with many issues on my place.

The military will give you the discipline you need. However, get hold of the Liturgy of the Hours and try to contact the Chaplain Corps for getting released to a seminary program and consider becoming a military Chaplain for a while. You can still join a religious order. My last chaplain was Jesuit.

PAX

hi Eucharisteo. nope not offended at all. kinda hard to do. drove truck for eleven years, and now I’m in the u.s. army. i take lots worse on a daily basis. lol. anyhow, i must say i envy you. didn’t believe i had the discipline necessary to even look into a Benedictine monastery. even tho i am very attracted to the rule and all it entails. i figured the military would give me a way to start gaining the discipline i would need if I’m ever blessed enough to join one of these orders. I also have a strong leanings toward St. Francis of Assisi. The lives of these men are incredible. what they gave up and what they suffered on behalf of the cross! really wish i had been educated by Benedictine monks instead of the protestant upbringing i had. but in some ways im grateful for that too. glad you reverted. Catholicism is not just the true Church it is a beautiful inspired form of worship. im attempting to learn Latin so I can even more appreciate it. God bless you and yours.