YOUR N.O. Mass

[iona_scribe]

I didn’t vote since “all masses” is not applicable. We have about 3 or 4 priests serving our huge parish and each one does things a little differently.

1. I’ve heard Eucharistic prayers I & II
2. I’ve seen people receive the Eucharist on their tongues
3. One of the priests always has us chant the Agnus Dei (and the Kyrie for that matter)
4. Our choir has learned 1 or 2 Latin pieces this past year and we get to hear it on occasion if the above mentioned priest is celebrating.

 

[CradleCath]

Thanks to all who have answered so far. I must have been part of a more liberal parish than I realized. At this point, we’ve had about 16 posters with messages in this thread & 12 of you say that your parish allows COTT, 6 have answered that your parish uses some Latin & some chant in your parishes Novus Ordo. You are indeed blessed. I know that Brotherholf travels a distance in order to have these things & can’t help but wonder if the rest of you are allowed to receive COTT in your “home parish” or if you travel to Mass.

Here, I haven’t heard Latin used AT ALL since the early 70’s, haven’t heard Gregorian Chant or Polyphany since the 60’s.
The parish I speak of was the parish of part of my childhood. We moved into it when I was in the 6th grade & my husband & I moved out of the city in 1965. We returned in 1985 & I couldn’t wait to once again go to the parish of part of my childhood.
WOW!! Did I get a surprise. It had been as gutted as the Cathedral parish that I attended until the 6th grade. No Communion rail, no Statues, the Altar that I had been privileged to dust every Saturday, as an 8th Grader, was gone, the Stations of the Cross gone & later replaced with these stark, modern plaques.

We had no Latin in the Mass…
No Chant…
No COTT
NO EP#1/Roman Canon…EVER…

Up until about 10 yrs. ago, we had a choir that was positioned to the front right of the Sanctuary…as the choir loft was gone. For the last 8-10 years we’ve had no music at all. The parish is growing older by the month it seems. All I saw there were white heads. The young people are leaving & that’s sad…but, I can’t blame them, as I left as soon as the TLM was allowed in another city parish.

Some good things, during the last 3 yrs. or so, I no longer saw priests bring props for the homily & the pro-gay preaching had stopped. Whether it has been replaced by Orthodox preaching or not…I don’t know. As I sat & listened to my new pastor preach Catholic doctrine re abortion the Sunday before the election…with no apologies, no “tolerance” for this sin, etc., I couldn’t help but wonder what the people at my old parish were hearing. Since one of those parishioners is the editor of the local, liberal newspaper, it was probably watered down or no mention made of the election.

 

[KathleenElsie]

We have used no Latin & no Greek in recent years.

When you have our type of choir Gregorian Chant is only wishful thinking. Any chant is limited to a few Taizé pieces. No, we are a Massive Cremation parish and the children of the 60s & 70s that form the choir have done their best to resurrect some of the music from that era including Carey Landry’s Gloria for Masses with Youth (rather funny considering the average age of our congregation) which we now sing every Sunday banghead: :crying:

AFA our Eucharistic Prayer goes, we use EP III a lot, usually interspersed with EPII

Our priest told us has never studied Latin or Greek and has no desire to do so. My daughter offers a Latin class every other Monday for those interested (mostly homeschool students and their parents). The priest at a local Byzantine Catholic Church has asked to join us when he can get the time.

 

[justinkolo]

Well, I’ve been to my real parish church once (the one I live in) and I could only check off #2, as I was able to receive on the tongue. Don’t remember the Eucharistic Prayer that was used, probably 2 because it’s the shortest.

But, where I normally go for daily masses, I’ve heard 1, 2, and 3. There is a communion rail (though people still receive in the hand at it! Go figure.) Sometimes the Sanctus and Agnus Dei are just that, in Latin. Chant? HA! But we do have the Adoremus hymnal at least.

Whoever said 4 (We come to you, Father, with praise and thanksgiving, etc. etc. etc.) is never used, I’ve heard it, but not recently. Actually, remember there were some new Eucharistic prayers for a while? I’ve even heard those used…

Finally… if somewhere I went refused me Communion on the tongue, I only pray somehow God finds a way to allow me to control myself, should that happen!

 

[Inity]

1. I don’t know which is which by number, sorry I’ve heard different ones.
2. We in Russia don’t reveive in the hand!
3. In our parish, usually “Sanctus”, and may be “Salve Regina” in the end.
   Another parish I attend eventually, offers GREAT NO Latin mass at 12-00 each Sunday. With organ/gregorian chants and real beauty and solemnity. I really like it. So far it was more beautiful than TLM mass I once attended!
4. Sometimes. The choir is not always present, and parishioners rarely sing gregorian chants. But, if they do, it most likely would be Salve, Regina.

 

[brigid12]

None of those are true at my parish, except we can receive on the tongue (although we get frowns from the priests, oftentimes - unless something else is causing those frowns all the time and the same looks are not given to people receiving in the hand, that I see).

 

[jazzy_987]

I’m pretty sure we use Eucharistic Prayer #2 the most, but I hear #1 a lot too, about 55/45%
We can receive on the tongue or hand but most people receive on their hand.
There is no Latin at all, and sometimes there is a chant.

 

[Our_Refuge]

=

CradleCath;4674958]I was posting on another thread about the difference between the Mass of vatican II & the Novus Ordo thar we see today. Your answers to the poll will help us understand whether the Mass we celebrate today is** true to the council**.

For instance, at my old Novus Ordo only parish…extraordinary
eucharistic Ministers are used at EVERY Mass.

Lay Eucharistic Ministers were not a part of the Constitution on the Liturgy ratified at Vatican II
I

have not heard ANY Latin within this Mass ever, though the council recommended that Latin be **part of **the Mass.

Latin was meant to be the prime language with parts of the mass in the vernacular

In the past 50 years there has been NO Gregorian Chant, no Polyphony sung at the Mass I attended until a year ago.

This was to have "Pride of place’ in the Mass

We were not given the option of receiving Christ on the tongue

Communion in the hand was NOT a part of Vatican II.

I have not heard Eucharistic Prayer II used in many, MANY years.

Any Eucharistic prayer can be used

 

[Ghoti]

Eucharistic Prayers

• I have never heard EP I in any Mass I’ve been to (that I remember) before the Latin OF said by the Oratorians.
• Normally, in my experience of the OF, it was mostly EP III, a good number of EP II, and a couple or three of EP IV.
• When I was younger I always rooted for EP II – it was the shortest. :embarrassed:

Communion

• When I made my First Communion, I was instructed to receive on the tongue (standing). Later I noticed that most adults received in the hand, so eventually I decided to do it the “grown-up way”. I still receive (at least most recently) in the hand: altho’ I want to receive on the tongue, it has been so long that I “chickened out”. :embarrassed:
• The Oratorians and FSSP seem to give kneeling at the rails, on the tongue; my last Masses there I did not receive, as I need to go to confession first.
• Side note: Before “coming back to the Church”, I routinely received Communion while not in a state of Grace. No more!

Music

• The first hymns I remember learning were “They’ll Know We Are Christians”, “Into Your Hands”, and “Alle-Alle-Alle-Loo-Ee-Ya”. After that, it was either Catholic Book of Worship, or Glory & Praise. The former at least had some of the old traditionals, but the latter was mostly the Bob Dufford/Carey Landry songs. Instruments ranged from electronic organ/piano to guitars with sax & drums.

Latin

Before I went to the Oratorians: Nope, nada, zilch. Nil, even.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Eucharistic Prayers

• I have never heard EP I in any Mass I’ve been to (that I remember) before the Latin OF said by the Oratorians.
• Normally, in my experience of the OF, it was mostly EP III, a good number of EP II, and a couple or three of EP IV.
• When I was younger I always rooted for EP II – it was the shortest. :embarrassed:

Communion

• When I made my First Communion, I was instructed to receive on the tongue (standing). Later I noticed that most adults received in the hand, so eventually I decided to do it the “grown-up way”. I still receive (at least most recently) in the hand: altho’ I want to receive on the tongue, it has been so long that I “chickened out”. :embarrassed:
• The Oratorians and FSSP seem to give kneeling at the rails, on the tongue; my last Masses there I did not receive, as I need to go to confession first.
• Side note: Before “coming back to the Church”, I routinely received Communion while not in a state of Grace. No more!

Music

• The first hymns I remember learning were “They’ll Know We Are Christians”, “Into Your Hands”, and “Alle-Alle-Alle-Loo-Ee-Ya”. After that, it was either Catholic Book of Worship, or Glory & Praise. The former at least had some of the old traditionals, but the latter was mostly the Bob Dufford/Carey Landry songs. Instruments ranged from electronic organ/piano to guitars with sax & drums.

Latin

Before I went to the Oratorians: Nope, nada, zilch. Nil, even.

That’s part of the problem mon frere.

I am embarressed to note that when I returned home to New Orleans after serving my country in the Navy, I connected with my friend of some now 30 + years. We went to Mass on Saturday afternoon for the Vigil Mass…Lakefront in New Orleans. In by 4:30 out by 5 at the latest.

I don’t even want to talk about music…

 

[Joannm]

Music

• The first hymns I remember learning were “They’ll Know We Are Christians”, “Into Your Hands”, and “Alle-Alle-Alle-Loo-Ee-Ya”. After that, it was either Catholic Book of Worship, or Glory & Praise. The former at least had some of the old traditionals, but the latter was mostly the Bob Dufford/Carey Landry songs. Instruments ranged from electronic organ/piano to guitars with sax & drums.

Latin

Before I went to the Oratorians: Nope, nada, zilch. Nil, even.

It was that kind of music in the late 60’s and early 70’s, that kept me in the Church. Our parish had a terrible organist and even worse choir. Listening to them was actually painful. When the parish started a folk group I was one of the first to join and so began my love of liturgy. I even refused to have the organist and soloist for my wedding and had a guitarist.

As I got older I came to appreciate more traditional liturgical music but I like the contemporary as well, in fact I have come to know some of the contemporary composers personally. I guess you could say I have eclectic taste in liturgical music and I believe there is a place for all types of music. I sang in our diocesan choir for many years and we sang everything from chant, to Mozart, to Gospel and contemporary. I loved it all, well, except for this horrible Te Deum we did once - and only once.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Joan - I’m coming up on my 40th high school reunion in May. I really truly resented having to sing “Sons of God” and “They’ll Know We are Christians” in addition to Simon and Garfunkle’s “Sounds of Silence” and “Bridge Over Troubled Waters” at my graduation Mass forty years ago. I resent it to this day.

However, I do recognize that that which is not my “cup of tea” may draw others closer to the Lord. I had this very discussion two weeks ago with my old friend from high school who played the guitar at that graduation Mass. I am far more comfortable with chant and sacred motets.

I don’t know what I would do were it not for my cathedral parish. I drive 25 miles one way to attend and have done so since 1983. I didn’t leave HMC in the 70s and early 80s, I simply quit going to Mass because I could not stand all the “a’strummin’ and a’grinnin’” that kept you in HMC.

If the practice of having either the Vigil Mass or the earliest Mass on Sunday having no music (as it was throughout most of the 70s) would have continued, I would have had no problems. I saw my parent’s generation (folks who were children before WWII) reduced to having to find the Mass with no music because they could not stand the music which came out starting in 1967.

The stark reality is that we who submitted to HMC in 1967 have been marginalized for these last 40 years. What sustained you is what drove me away.

 

[CradleCath]

Thanks so much for your answers. It gives me great hope to see how many of you can receive the Eucharist on the tongue.That’s wonderful & perhaps soon this practice will become more common.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Thanks so much for your answers. It gives me great hope to see how many of you can receive the Eucharist on the tongue.That’s wonderful & perhaps soon this practice will become more common.

It really grieves me that such is not the case elsewhere. I don’t know of any church in south Louisiana where one could not receive on the tongue. I am 57 and have never received in the hand.

 

[ericka1701]

At my home parish, my priest uses EPII during the week and during most Sundays of Ordinary time. I’ve never heard IV, and I and III are used mostly during Feasts and Solemnities. I was taught to receive on the hand, but recently I have started receiving on the tounge. A few other parishioners do as well, but for the most part everyone receives on the hand. I am lucky to have a priest who is willing to “meet you where you are” with everyone, so the only “look” I’ve every noticed from Father was the first time I received on the tounge, but I supposed he was confused since I had received constantly on the hand for 6 months before. The music depends on who (if anyone) is accompanying the music for Mass. One person brings in her own keyboard and puts it on the strings setting. A few others play the guitar, and every once and awhile, someone will play the chords on guitar and another will play the melody on the electric piano (what’s really bad is sometimes the guitar is not in tune at all with the piano… personally for me, I will have physical pain when something’s that bad out of tune… I guess my years of band and voice has something to do with that). We have no music director or a set accompanyist so there are some Sundays where everyone will sing a capella or not at all. Nothing is done it Latin and most of the times it’s the “feel-good” horizontal music.

The other parish I go to most of the times I hear EP III mostly, although I is used rather frequently as well. About half receive on the tounge, and the Sanctus, Gloria and Kyrie are done in Latin and Greek most of the times. I’ve never seen a hymn sung that was published after 1960, and either the piano or organ are used.

God Bless!
Ericka

 

[Sarabande]

At my parish, for our 11:00 mass there is always a choir which will sing polyphony, chant and other sacred motets. They will always chant the prayer of the faithful as well with a harmonized response from the choir and congregation, which I believe is a harmony from the Byzentine-Catholic mass.

They also do a Latin Novus Ordo mass every 1st and 3rd Sunday of the month at the 11:00, so we will often hear a Palestrina mass or a mass by Victoria, etc. At the rest of the masses, the cantor will chant the antiphons for the processional and communion and there is also hymns. Actually, at all the masses they do the chanted antiphons.

Our parish only uses the organ, which is magnificent and played by one of the best organists in the city.

The Eucharist can be received either on the tongue or in the hand. They do have a couple EMHCs, but the majority are either priests or the deacon. My husband and I always receive on the tongue and there has never been a problem with that there. But then again, one of our priests does the TLM at another parish and a former resident priest there also was learning the TLM, so it is on the whole a more orthodox and more “traditional” parish than others. Every priest there, with the exception, I believe, of one of our priests from Africa, (I’ve never seen him do it, but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t) does the Latin Novus Ordo mass there. Our pastor never did it before coming to the parish and worked very hard with learning his Latin, etc. and has gotten better and better as he has gone along.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Your answers to the poll will help us understand whether the Mass we celebrate today is true to the council.

1. Who is us, and by what uthority do you judge whether the mass is true to the council?
2. Do you recognize and submit to the authority of the council?

Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[ncjohn]

Quite frankly, there is no “Mass of Vatican II”. SC only promulgated guidelines that they anticipated would be part of the revised liturgy. But part of the document was the call for each “ecclesiastical authority” to conduct experiments to determine how the liturgy would best function in their jurisdiction–subject to approval by the Holy See of course.

For instance, in 36 (2), while Latin is called to be preserved, we find the clause that says:

1. 1. Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.
2. But since the use of the mother tongue, whether in the Mass, the administration of the sacraments, or other parts of the liturgy, frequently may be of great advantage to the people, the limits of its employment may be extended. This will apply in the first place to the readings and directives, and to some of the prayers and chants, according to the regulations on this matter to be laid down separately in subsequent chapters.

An implementation document, which called for a commission to determine the actual form, was later drawn up. An initial form, the Mass of 1965, which was a hybrid Latin-vernacular Mass, was the first attempt. This was found almost universally to be confusing to people and was not ultimately accepted by the commission. Note that SC did not limit the amount of vernacular to be used but only cited “…in the first place…” as to where it would likely *at least *exist. Paragraph 3 specifies that “These norms being observed, it is for the competent territorial ecclesiastical authority mentioned in Art. 22, 2, to decide whether, and to what extent, the vernacular language is to be used;”

Regardless, the OF is the result of the ccommission’s work and was approved by Paul VI. As such it is validly the “Mass of Vatican II”. Could it have taken another form? Certainly it could but this is what the Pope approved.

Other items mentioned in the OP are not addressed by SC at all but have been approved by the Popes through the years, which makes them also valid whether the Council Fathers anticipated them or not. Some, such as how often any certain EP is used, have no specifications as far as I have found.

All that being said, there are indeed abuses at times to those things that have been approved. There are however legitimate processes in place for addressing those abuses when they occur, right on up to the CDW if needed.

The fact that an abuse takes place though does not make the Mass not the Mass. In the end it makes the thread sound like just another place to complain about whatever abuses one perceives rather than whether people have the Mass that Vatican II called for. The Popes are the ones that get to make that decision and they have spoken. I may not always like the results of any particular Mass, but I didn’t always like the results of any particular Mass before Vatican II either.

Peace,

 

[CradleCath]

It really grieves me that such is not the case elsewhere. I don’t know of any church in south Louisiana where one could not receive on the tongue. I am 57 and have never received in the hand.

And I am 67 & thanks to God & Pope Benedict, I can now attend a TLM on Sundays & receive on my tongue as I kneel at the Communion Rail!!!

 

[m134e5]

It seems irrelevent whether or not the Novus Ordo is true to the council. Pope Paul VI promulgated the Novus Ordo- and he was just as much within his authority to do so as Pope St. Pius V was when he mandated that the Tridentine Mass be used everywhere in the Latin Rite (except in places where that were more than so many years old- I forgot how many- at the time were used).

I also join with Deacon Ed. B., in asking “Who is ‘us’, and by what authority do you judge whether the Mass is true to the council?”

The Tridentine Mass I used to go to was pretty sloppily done, which is why I no longer go there. Most of the Novus Ordo Masses I have gone to have been done very reverently. There have been a few crazy ones, but those have been the exception rather than the rule- and VERY few even come close to what I have heard described here.

A true traditional Catholic would have much more respect for the priesthood than I have seen many so-called traditionalists show. Of course, they have certain priests they wait on night and day, but the ones who don’t fit their standard of perfection just get the cold shoulder (at best). Perhaps St. Josemaria Escriva said it better than I can: if you do not have the highest respect for the priesthood and the religious state, you certainly don’t love God’s Church!