Your opinions please

[bumpy187]

I attend, and serve, at a Traditional Mass every Sunday 25 miles from home. However, I am a member of my local parish as I have been since birth.

The priest in my parish, as far as I can tell, is a good man…devout, humble, reverent and prayerful. While Sunday services are the usual Novus Ordo variety his weekday masses are very nice with the ordinary parts said in Latin and the Salve Regina sung beforehand.
Now here is the rub: The Sunday mass is started with a “lets greet our neighbors” bit where all turn and smile,shake hands, hug and actually talk in greeting. This is followed later with hand holding at the Pater Noster and the usual (horrible in my opinion) “offer each other a sign of peace” handshaking and touchy feelyness (while ignoring that our Lord is laid bare on the altar!).

My question: While I try to just go along for continuitys sake (with gritted teeth) I am often tempted to just NOT participate in these silly little customs. Would you, good readers, consider this rude? Would it be to offensive?

 

[maurin]

I attend, and serve, at a Traditional Mass every Sunday 25 miles from home. However, I am a member of my local parish as I have been since birth.

The priest in my parish, as far as I can tell, is a good man…devout, humble, reverent and prayerful. While Sunday services are the usual Novus Ordo variety his weekday masses are very nice with the ordinary parts said in Latin and the Salve Regina sung beforehand.
Now here is the rub: The Sunday mass is started with a “lets greet our neighbors” bit where all turn and smile,shake hands, hug and actually talk in greeting. This is followed later with hand holding at the Pater Noster and the usual (horrible in my opinion) “offer each other a sign of peace” handshaking and touchy feelyness (mean while ignoring that our Lord is laid bare on the altar!).

My question: While I try to just go along for continuitys sake (with gritted teeth) I am often tempted to just NOT participate in these silly little customs. Would you, good readers, consider this rude? Would it be to offensive?

bumpy,

what does your gut tell you to do?

 

[NoWhereMan]

I attend, and serve, at a Traditional Mass every Sunday 25 miles from home. However, I am a member of my local parish as I have been since birth.

The priest in my parish, as far as I can tell, is a good man…devout, humble, reverent and prayerful. While Sunday services are the usual Novus Ordo variety his weekday masses are very nice with the ordinary parts said in Latin and the Salve Regina sung beforehand.
Now here is the rub: The Sunday mass is started with a “lets greet our neighbors” bit where all turn and smile,shake hands, hug and actually talk in greeting. This is followed later with hand holding at the Pater Noster and the usual (horrible in my opinion) “offer each other a sign of peace” handshaking and touchy feelyness (mean while ignoring that our Lord is laid bare on the altar!).

My question: While I try to just go along for continuitys sake (with gritted teeth) I am often tempted to just NOT participate in these silly little customs. Would you, good readers, consider this rude? Would it be to offensive?

No, I dont think it would, I think a lot of Parishioners could do without it, but they go along with it to be nice, . I do not go out of my way to turn & shake hands, but if someone offers me their hand, I will shake with them. Our last pastor made us shake hands before mass began & at the sign of peace, & Hold hands during the Our Father, Our new priest dispensed with that except we still shake hands at the sign of peace, at another Church I visit, people are running around the Church all over the place shaking hands & greeting everyone they look at there is so much din at that time its unbelievable, but they do a wonderful wonderful mass . There does seem to be a whole lotta love in that Catholic Church, & the Pastor is Marvelous! I will say that some of the Congregation is just looking for that handshake or touch, I see some wonderful smiles & genuine love on some of the faces as they want to share their love, just my sappy opinion

 

[malachi3]

Not rude, but phony if you do it and don’t want to.

St. Benedict in his Rule for monks said “never give a hollow greeting of peace.”

Peace.

 

[Sr_Sally]

the Sign (Kiss) of Peace is part of Mass and so you should participate in it. You can do so in a reserved way by just saying ‘peace be with you’ and shaking the hand of the people in the pew around you. No need to go out of your way. After you’ve shaken hands with those 4 or 5 people, simply bow your head, fold you hands, and begin to pray. The Angus Dei begins directly after that anyway.

As for greeting those before Mass or holding hands during the Our Father, neither of those are required of you. Before Mass, simply remain kneeling until the procession begins. During the Our Father, keep your hands clasped in front of you, head bowed, and eyes shut.

Also, if you can, try for ‘strategic seating’–first pew, end row near the wall, section of the church that is least crowded, etc.

However, in all that please behave toward your fellow parishioners in charity and also your priest. Pray for him always.

 

[Snerticus]

While the others are not part of the rubrics of the Mass, I was taught that the sign of peace was part of the rubrics. I don’t think you have to shake hands at this part of the mass, but you do have to acknowledge others and wish them peace. I do think it’s rude to not acknowledge others at all at this part of the Mass. You can always turn to them and nod your head and say “peace be with you” or something similar. I don’t have a problem with the sign of peace, I have a problem with the holding hands at the Our Father, but I will never pull away from someone who grabs at me at that point even if I feel like it. Not many people do this anymore at my parish, and I do try to sit a distance away from people so they don’t try. As for the “meet and greet”, it is usally done before our Mass, so I don’t have a problem with that either, only that I’m not used to it from the Masses I grew up with and it has taken me a while to get used to.

Just be glad you don’t live in the ancient Church where everyone gave each other a kiss at “the sign of peace”!

Many people crave that “touchy feeliness”, but ever since I can remember I’ve never liked to be touched - especially by a stranger - so I’m not one of those people. But I have learned to deal with it. I don’t want to totally distance myself from the congregation, but I don’t want to fall into that laxness where gestures are done where they are not proper either.

If worse comes to worse and you are totally uncomfortable, you can always visit different parishes to see if they are more comfortable to you. Otherwise, I’d say you should probably compromise and if you feel uncomfortable, offer it up to Jesus who will understand. These things happen for only a few moments, so you can learn to put up with them and I think God will be pleased with your effort.

God Bless,
Snert

 

[NeedImprovement]

It’s a tough one. I’m repeating myself now , but even during the weekday Masses at our parish people get carried away at the *sign of peace *and go on a “hand shaking expedition” which extends well into the Agnus Dei . At this point in those particular Masses, I pray much better with my eyes closed :sad_yes: .

Whether or not we exchange the “sign of peace” is left up to the presider’s discretion. The rubrics appear this way in the Missal :

The priest, extending and joining his hands adds :

The peace of the Lord be with you always.

The people answer: And also with you.

Then the deacon (or the priest) may add:

Let us offer each other the sign of peace.

All make an appropriate sign of peace according to the local custom.
The priest gives the sign of peace to the deacon or the minister.

Sad but true , it can be a real distraction. But we are asked to try and comply.

I think in all the years and all the Masses I attended, the most unobtrusive sign of peace I encountered was when I attended Mass on 2 occasions at the Chinese Mission in downtown Montreal. They simply made a slight bow to the person nearest them and then got right to concentrating on the Agnus Dei.

 

[corsair]

I rarely ever participate in this ridiculous stuff. I usually put 5 to 5 and pray while this silliness is going on.

Sorry, Sr. Sally but I WON’T participate. which is why I prefer the TLM.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I remember when the “sign of peace” was introduced. We were simply taught to turn and incline your head to your neighbor and say “Peace be with you”. Then came, OK, well, let’s shake hands (and it was just those on either side of you in the same pew). Then came, OK, well, let’s shake hands with those in the pew ahead of us and behind us. Then came, OK, well, if I’m sitting on the main aisle, I guess I should walk across the main aisle to the other side. Somewhere in amongst this, Father decided that he needed to come down out of the sanctuary…and so on and so forth.

My local geographic parish took lessons from the nearby Southern Baptist churches. Mass begins with “Turn around and introduce yourself to your neighbor”. I am at Mass to worship not fellowship. Fellowship is coffee and donuts in the parish hall after Mass.

I drive 25 miles one way and have done so since 1983. The new pastor coming to my local geographic parish was pastor for 12 years at my cathedral parish starting in 1984. I’m going to wait and see what he does. There was not and is not any “meet and greet” before Mass at the cathedral and folks to this day will accept a simple bow, a smile, and a “peace be with you”. Nor do we have people trying to grab your hand at the Pater Noster so that you, too, can participate in “the wave”.

Snerticus? I am more than aware of what happened in the early church. I grew up with the TLM. I was an altar boy until I was 17 in 1968. I liked being an altar boy and a choir member. I liked singing chant and sacred motets in Latin. I liked being able to kneel to receive Holy Communion.

More importantly, I liked the absolute quiet before Mass. I liked being able to examine my conscience in peace. I liked being able to pray in peace without having to listen to the ushers in the narthex discussing their preferred brand of hemorrhoid medicine (No, I am not making that up). I don’t like the meet and greet at the beginning of Mass. I’m not a Southern Baptist.

One of my classmates invited me to the Holy Saturday Liturgy at an Eastern Orthodox church in 1976. I cried, because I realized just how much we had lost in less than ten years. It is so much worse thirty plus years later.

I have had people try to pry my hands apart at the Pater Noster at my local geographic parish. That’s how pervasive it has become. I am glad, Sr. Sally, that things are so benign in your parish. The Agnus Dei does not even begin at my local geographic parish until Fr. returns to the altar after running up and down the main aisle and the two side aisles.

That’s why I’ve driven 25 miles one way since 1983. My cathedral parish has a reverent OF. I wish we had a TLM. I’d go back in a heartbeat. Have 1962 missal, will travel.

 

[Sr_Sally]

I rarely ever participate in this ridiculous stuff. I usually put 5 to 5 and pray while this silliness is going on.

Sorry, Sr. Sally but I WON’T participate. which is why I prefer the TLM.

I do understand your discomfort and the free-for-all that some are describing happening in their churches. It doesn’t occur that way at mine, thankfully. Nevertheless, the Sign of Peace IS part of the Mass, and by offering noone Christ’s Peace you are being disobedient (just as those waving and hollering across the sanctuary are).

If there is an EF Mass that you can attend every Sunday, that is wonderful. Just please don’t stop praying for the priests at your local parish church.

 

[RyanML]

As with many things in the Novus Ordo, the sign of peace is optional. The rubric says that the priest “may” invite others to share a sign of peace, the popularity of the practice notwithstanding. I attended a Catholic highschool where we had Mass every Wednesday and Friday and the priest never made use of this option, for which I was very grateful.

 

[Snerticus]

As with many things in the Novus Ordo, the sign of peace is optional. The rubric says that the priest “may” invite others to share a sign of peace, the popularity of the practice notwithstanding. I attended a Catholic highschool where we had Mass every Wednesday and Friday and the priest never made use of this option, for which I was very grateful.

Correct, it’s optional if the priest chooses. Most parishes choose to at Mass, and once the priest says “Let us now offer each other the sign of peace”, it’s part of the rubrics and not optional anymore.

However, since the Swine Flu became newsworthy, our parish has temporarily discontinued this practice. I have a question, though, are people disobedient when the priest does not invite us to do so yet many still turn around and get a few quick handshakes in before continuing the mass?

What do you think Sr. Sally?

Snert

 

[brotherhrolf]

Correct, it’s optional if the priest chooses. Most parishes choose to at Mass, and once the priest says “Let us now offer each other the sign of peace”, it’s part of the rubrics and not optional anymore.

However, since the Swine Flu became newsworthy, our parish has temporarily discontinued this practice. I have a question, though, are people disobedient when the priest does not invite us to do so yet many still turn around and get a few quick handshakes in before continuing the mass?

What do you think Sr. Sally?

Snert

Mon Dieu! We started out in 1970 with a simple bow of the head. Can you not see the absurdity of this? Swine flu? Should there not be ablutions for the congregation before the sign of peace? As I said, the sign of peace in 1970 was a simple bow of the head. (Shaking my head in absolute disbelief).

We have before us the Eucharistic Sacrifice. What happened to that? God is present on the altar - body, blood, soul, and divinity and we are worrying about a “few quick handshakes”? It ain’t about us. It is about Him!

 

[JoeJPurnell]

Rejoice Bumpy in all these sufferings you’re going through. Since the priest represents Christ during Mass in particular, an obedient and joyful heart God will not spurn. I think Jesus is calling us to mortify ourselves by allowing these touchy feely “episodes” to take place. During these trying times pray to St. Pio who was not allowed to celebrate Mass in public for ten years.

 

[ElizabethPH]

I attend, and serve, at a Traditional Mass every Sunday 25 miles from home. However, I am a member of my local parish as I have been since birth.

The priest in my parish, as far as I can tell, is a good man…devout, humble, reverent and prayerful. While Sunday services are the usual Novus Ordo variety his weekday masses are very nice with the ordinary parts said in Latin and the Salve Regina sung beforehand.
Now here is the rub: The Sunday mass is started with a “lets greet our neighbors” bit where all turn and smile,shake hands, hug and actually talk in greeting. This is followed later with hand holding at the Pater Noster and the usual (horrible in my opinion) “offer each other a sign of peace” handshaking and touchy feelyness (while ignoring that our Lord is laid bare on the altar!).

My question: While I try to just go along for continuitys sake (with gritted teeth) I am often tempted to just NOT participate in these silly little customs. Would you, good readers, consider this rude? Would it be to offensive?

I think I would take advantage of the opportunity to be a little humbled and go ahead and extend the hand in the Sign of Peace. Perhaps the more you do it out of obedience and love of your neighbor the more you’ll understand it’s more about God then you.

As far as the Our Father you don’t have to join hands with your neighbor. I don’t consider it to be rude, I don’t do it. Lot’s of folks don’t.

I would go 25 miles to a Latin Mass on Sundays, as it stands now the closest one to me is a 150 mile round-trip. But since you attend week-days at your parish I would still keep it as your regular parish. I think it’s great that you have the opportunity to go to the Latin Mass. I think that they both can do nothing but enrich you spiritually.

 

[maurin]

I think I would take advantage of the opportunity to be a little humbled and go ahead and extend the hand in the Sign of Peace. Perhaps the more you do it out of obedience and love of your neighbor the more you’ll understand it’s more about God then you.

please Elizabeth, explain how this is more about the Cult of God than about the cult of man.

 

[ElizabethPH]

please Elizabeth, explain how this is more about the Cult of God than about the cult of man.

Hi maurin,

Just that the op has made extending the Sign of Peace more about how he feels, rather then what it is, extending the Peace of Christ to our neighbor, the sign of peace is filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration. Besides if he is bothered by it that much he at least has the option to go to a Latin Mass on Sundays, and that his week-day masses are more traditional must also be a great relief to him; and he can avoid the seemingly unacceptable flaws of the Novus Ordo at least on Sundays.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Hi maurin,

Just that the op has made extending the Sign of Peace more about how he feels, rather then what it is, extending the Peace of Christ to our neighbor, the sign of peace is filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration. Besides if he is bothered by it that much he at least has the option to go to a Latin Mass on Sundays, and that his week-day masses are more traditional must also be a great relief to him; and he can avoid the seemingly unacceptable flaws of the Novus Ordo at least on Sundays.

Elizabeth, there are degrees and then there are degrees. I’ve been a member of a cathedral parish since 1983. The Sign of Peace is dignified and quiet. On the occassions when I attend my local geographic parish, it is anything but. May I point out that at 57 I have distinct memories of what Mass was like before and after Vatican II. The Sign of Peace was limited to the Celebrant and Deacon in the TLM.

When the Sign of Peace was introduced in the NO in the 70s, it was limited to a bow and “Peace be with you”. The OP is absolutely correct. There is nothing in the GIRM that instructs us to cross the aisles of the church or for the priest to come down off the altar and run up and down the main and side aisles.

You take current practice as “filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration.” It is nothing more than a practice which has evolved - just like holding hands during the Pater Noster and “doing the wave”. It is a product of the late 70s and 80s and has nothing to do with the reforms of Vatican II or how Mass was celebrated before Vatican II.

I feel strongly about this precisely because I remember what went before and what goes on now at my local geographic parish. It does not go on at my cathedral parish where a reverent NO is celebrated nor does it go on at the handful of parishes in my diocese which also celebrate a reverent NO. Just because something is done in your parish does not make it right.

 

[maurin]

Hi maurin,

Just that the op has made extending the Sign of Peace more about how he feels, rather then what it is, extending the Peace of Christ to our neighbor, the sign of peace is filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration. Besides if he is bothered by it that much he at least has the option to go to a Latin Mass on Sundays, and that his week-day masses are more traditional must also be a great relief to him; and he can avoid the seemingly unacceptable flaws of the Novus Ordo at least on Sundays.

But the Sign of Peace as it is celebrated and expressed in the NO is all about how the people feel–and they are not too shy to show it (even at the expense of the Agnus Dei, which comes next in the NO Mass)-- and has, sadly, nothing to do any more with He who is Peace. It is a total rupture with the past.

In the Holy Mass, when the Priest turns to the people and says “Peace be with thee”, he is holding the thumb and forefinger together which just held Peace Himself.

 

[ElizabethPH]

Elizabeth, there are degrees and then there are degrees. I’ve been a member of a cathedral parish since 1983. The Sign of Peace is dignified and quiet. On the occassions when I attend my local geographic parish, it is anything but. May I point out that at 57 I have distinct memories of what Mass was like before and after Vatican II. The Sign of Peace was limited to the Celebrant and Deacon in the TLM.

When the Sign of Peace was introduced in the NO in the 70s, it was limited to a bow and “Peace be with you”. The OP is absolutely correct. There is nothing in the GIRM that instructs us to cross the aisles of the church or for the priest to come down off the altar and run up and down the main and side aisles.

You take current practice as “filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration.” It is nothing more than a practice which has evolved - just like holding hands during the Pater Noster and “doing the wave”. It is a product of the late 70s and 80s and has nothing to do with the reforms of Vatican II or how Mass was celebrated before Vatican II.

I feel strongly about this precisely because I remember what went before and what goes on now at my local geographic parish. It does not go on at my cathedral parish where a reverent NO is celebrated nor does it go on at the handful of parishes in my diocese which also celebrate a reverent NO. Just because something is done in your parish does not make it right.

Your right…I have a few years on you and remember very well. I’m not arguing with anyone about it. I won’t go there. I’m not good at it. But I will defend a reverent Novus Ordo Mass. I’m not defending the carnival atmosphere that has become part of the Mass in some parishes. My parish has a reverent Novus Ordo Mass with Latin and chant. But they do shake hands.