Your Response to Those Who State You Cannot Be 100% Pro-Life & For the Death Penalty?

[PLAL]

Your Response to Those Who State You Cannot Be 100% Pro-Life & For the Death Penalty?

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I am actually against the Death Penalty but the Pro-Aborts often attack Pro-Lifers by stating you cannot be 100% Pro-Life if you are for the Death Penalty. What is the best answer to give them??

I know with abortion the unborn baby is always innocent. With Capital Punishment, the criminal has chosen to do severe wrong and pays for it through the Death Penalty.

I believe the Catholic Church has exceptions which make the Capital Punishment OK. How would you respond back to the Pro-Aborts??

 

[Della]

Your Response to Those Who State You Cannot Be 100% Pro-Life & For the Death Penalty?

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I am actually against the Death Penalty but the Pro-Aborts often attack Pro-Lifers by stating you cannot be 100% Pro-Life if you are for the Death Penalty. What is the best answer to give them??

I know with abortion the unborn baby is always innocent. With Capital Punishment, the criminal has chosen to do severe wrong and pays for it through the Death Penalty.

I believe the Catholic Church has exceptions which make the Capital Punishment OK. How would you respond back to the Pro-Aborts??

You have stated the position correctly already. All you need now are the citations that back it up from the CCC: Death Penalty.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

The church’s limited defense of the death penalty is absolutely irrelevant to the United States and Europe. It allows the penalty for those who cannot otherwise be kept from doing harm to others. (i.e. There is no possible way to lock them up, and they are dangerous).

As sinners, we all deserve death. But God had mercy on us first. (Go and do likewise).

 

[vern_humphrey]

I say that’s not the Catholic Church’s postion.

I follow a simple principle – protect the innocent, punish the guilty.

 

[Darrel]

I have reversed my pro-death penalty position. The way I see it killing them does nothing to stop crime at all. Why not give them there life span to repent? Once they are dead the option dies with them. If the death penalty saved lives for real I would rethink the issue. If it’s about punishment, rotting in a cage is worse then death. Even if one in a million find God in prison thats a treasure. There really is nothing soft about a life sentence if you think about it.

-D

 

[Michael_Welter]

Prodigal_Son:

The church’s limited defense of the death penalty is absolutely irrelevant to the United States and Europe. It allows the penalty for those who cannot otherwise be kept from doing harm to others. (i.e. There is no possible way to lock them up, and they are dangerous).

As sinners, we all deserve death. But God had mercy on us first. (Go and do likewise).

Excellent post, Prodigal_Son!

I would agree that you cannot be 100% pro-life and approve of the death penalty. George Bush is NOT 100% pro-life. The Church teaches that life is sacred, and must be protected from conception until natural death. There is no room on that teaching for the death penalty, except as Prodigal_Son has so elequently noted.

 

[Brendan]

Ask them if it is possible to believe in personal freedom, that a person has a right to live without the government mandating how every minute of their day is spent.

And how would such a view be reconciled against a prision system?

Is it possible to believe in both freedom AND be supportive of a prison system.

 

[Della]

Darrel:

I have reversed my pro-death penalty position. The way I see it killing them does nothing to stop crime at all. Why not give them there life span to repent? Once they are dead the option dies with them. If the death penalty saved lives for real I would rethink the issue. If it’s about punishment, rotting in a cage is worse then death. Even if one in a million find God in prison thats a treasure. There really is nothing soft about a life sentence if you think about it.

-D

Well, there are three fallacies with your position: Firstly, a long life span does not necessarily give people time to repent. Indeed, a short life span is much more likely to get them to see their need of redemption. It is more merciful to let them know how long they have to get themselves ready for death–a privilege they certainly didn’t give to their victims.

Secondly, killing an offender means he can no longer order the deaths of others from his jail cell nor kill his fellow inmates. If you don’t think that happens, I’m afraid you are either ill-informed or naive.

Thirdly, no matter what the offense, it isn’t about punishment but about justice for the victims. Anyone who would cold-bloodedly kill an innocent, be they man, woman, or child, can only pay in full by giving their life in return–that is justice.

 

[wabrams]

Della:

Well, there are three fallacies with your position: Firstly, a long life span does not necessarily give people time to repent. Indeed, a short life span is much more likely to get them to see their need of redemption. It is more merciful to let them know how long they have to get themselves ready for death–a privilege they certainly didn’t give to their victims.

Secondly, killing an offender means he can no longer order the deaths of others from his jail cell nor kill his fellow inmates. If you don’t think that happens, I’m afraid you are either ill-informed or naive.

Thirdly, no matter what the offense, it isn’t about punishment but about justice for the victims. Anyone who would cold-bloodedly kill an innocent, be they man, woman, or child, can only pay in full by giving their life in return–that is justice.

That’s what super-max is for, and even better: solitairy confinement.

 

[vern_humphrey]

wabrams:

That’s what super-max is for, and even better: solitairy confinement.

I suggest you look up Tommy Silverstein on the web.

Silverstein was in super-max, at Marion, when he cooked up and carried out a plan to kill several corrections officers on the same day. Two corrections officers were killed – by men who were on 23-hours a day lockdown in a super-max and supposedly unable to communicate with each other.

Silverstein had committed two previous murders, one of them in prison. At the time, there was no death penalty in this country, so Silverstein got a third life sentence.

He is currently in Leavenworth, watching his guards’ every move. I notice no one opposed to the death penalty has ever stepped forward and said, "I will guard Silverstein. No one else need risk his life – * I* will see to it he gets showers, haircuts and medical attention.

 

[wabrams]

vern humphrey:

I suggest you look up Tommy Silverstein on the web.

Silverstein was in super-max, at Marion, when he cooked up and carried out a plan to kill several corrections officers on the same day. Two corrections officers were killed – by men who were on 23-hours a day lockdown in a super-max and supposedly unable to communicate with each other.

Silverstein had committed two previous murders, one of them in prison. At the time, there was no death penalty in this country, so Silverstein got a third life sentence.

He is currently in Leavenworth, watching his guards’ every move. I notice no one opposed to the death penalty has ever stepped forward and said, "I will guard Silverstein. No one else need risk his life – I will see to it he gets showers, haircuts and medical attention.

An extremely rare case.; it’s like saying the enitre military prison system is flawed b/c of what happened at Abu Gharib. Solitairy confinement works and has been used for hundreds of years.

 

[Darrel]

Well, there are three fallacies with your position: Firstly, a long life span does not necessarily give people time to repent. Indeed, a short life span is much more likely to get them to see their need of redemption. It is more merciful to let them know how long they have to get themselves ready for death–a privilege they certainly didn’t give to their victims.

Ummm,

Yeah actualy it does give them more time hence that includes time to repent… "Getting them to repent " is forcing someone to God through fear of death.

Secondly, killing an offender means he can no longer order the deaths of others from his jail cell nor kill his fellow inmates. If you don’t think that happens, I’m afraid you are either ill-informed or naive.

I think deathrow and supermax prisons keep them alone most of the time. The only thing naive would be an assumption that everybody on deathrow is in a position to order deaths and have that kind of juice.

Thirdly, no matter what the offense, it isn’t about punishment but about justice for the victims. Anyone who would cold-bloodedly kill an innocent, be they man, woman, or child, can only pay in full by giving their life in return–that is justice.

hehe,

People dont gain this huge sense of peace by some murdering criminal being put to death. It wont bring back the loved ones lost. This Christian idea that the death penalty is correct seems rooted in pride. At least it was in me for 35 years. I figured hey lets killem all it’s right. I also believed that a 50 cent bullet was far better than a million dollar execution. I started to question what it was rooted in. I found my position to deviod of mercy to the killer. They just happen to be Gods creation and just happen to have souls. Most of them are very broken people who need mercy more than most.

 

[Michael_Welter]

vern humphrey:

I notice no one opposed to the death penalty has ever stepped forward and said, "I will guard Silverstein. No one else need risk his life – I will see to it he gets showers, haircuts and medical attention.

I oppose the death penalty because I accept the Church’s teachings 100%. And, as has already been pointed out, if there is no other way to protect society from a person, such as Silverstein, then the death penalty is acceptable under Church teaching.

 

[vern_humphrey]

wabrams:

An extremely rare case.; it’s like saying the enitre military prison system is flawed b/c of what happened at Abu Gharib. Solitairy confinement works and has been used for hundreds of years.

Don’t be too sure about that – Silverstein is the one who got all the publicity because of the multiple killing of corrections officers. There are plenty of people in prison who are just as dangerous.

And there are plenty of people killed by paroled prisoners each year.

 

[Darrel]

vern humphrey:

He is currently in Leavenworth, watching his guards’ every move. I notice no one opposed to the death penalty has ever stepped forward and said, "I will guard Silverstein. No one else need risk his life – * I* will see to it he gets showers, haircuts and medical attention.

I would gaurd him in a heartbeat. Sounds like this guy exploited mistakes. If they did there job right they would be alive. I’m sure plenty of guys on death row would kill a gaurd if they had a chance.

-D

 

[wabrams]

vern humphrey:

Don’t be too sure about that – Silverstein is the one who got all the publicity because of the multiple killing of corrections officers. There are plenty of people in prison who are just as dangerous.

You really need to research the penal system. There are methods of solitairy confinement that work; they’re costly, but not as much in the long run as having someone on death row.
vern humphrey:

And there are plenty of people killed by paroled prisoners each year.

What does this have to do with discussing the death penalty? Are you suggesting we execute ALL inmates?

 

[vern_humphrey]

wabrams:

You really need to research the penal system. There are methods of solitairy confinement that work; they’re costly, but not as much in the long run as having someone on death row.

The method used to confine Tommy Silverstein “worked,” too. Until he found a way around it. What one man can invent, another man can defeat.

wabrams:

What does this have to do with discussing the death penalty?

The justification for the entire criminal justice system is to protect the innocent.

wabrams:

Are you suggesting we execute ALL inmates?

Fallacy of the false dilemma.

 

[Brad]

Prodigal_Son:

The church’s limited defense of the death penalty is absolutely irrelevant to the United States and Europe. It allows the penalty for those who cannot otherwise be kept from doing harm to others. (i.e. There is no possible way to lock them up, and they are dangerous).

As sinners, we all deserve death. But God had mercy on us first. (Go and do likewise).

Oh? And what do you make of those that are locked up but kill while in prison? Or those that are locked up, then set free and kill once set free?

 

[Della]

Darrel:

Ummm,

Yeah actualy it does give them more time hence that includes time to repent… "Getting them to repent " is forcing someone to God through fear of death.

Ah no, it doesn’t. It just gives them more time to sit around and tell themselves they don’t deserve what is coming to them. Most people who commit lesser crimes “repent” in prison and nearly all of them leave the Bible they received from some well meaning chaplain behind once they get out. That is a fact.

I think deathrow and supermax prisons keep them alone most of the time. The only thing naive would be an assumption that everybody on deathrow is in a position to order deaths and have that kind of juice.

So, we should take that chance because you think our prison systems are that secure? I don’t think so.

hehe,

People dont gain this huge sense of peace by some murdering criminal being put to death. It wont bring back the loved ones lost. This Christian idea that the death penalty is correct seems rooted in pride. At least it was in me for 35 years. I figured hey lets killem all it’s right. I also believed that a 50 cent bullet was far better than a million dollar execution. I started to question what it was rooted in. I found my position to deviod of mercy to the killer. They just happen to be Gods creation and just happen to have souls. Most of them are very broken people who need mercy more than most.

I said nothing about anyone gaining any “peace” from the execution of a murderer. I said the victims would get justice, which is an entirely different matter. And there are plenty of chances for those on death row to reexamine their lives and repent before their execution date. The shortness of time adds to their motivation to rethink what they did and why they are paying the ultimate penalty. That is more merciful than having them sit in prison for the rest of their lives, brooding on the supposed injustice they think is being done to them.

 

[Brad]

Michael Welter:

Excellent post, Prodigal_Son!

I would agree that you cannot be 100% pro-life and approve of the death penalty. George Bush is NOT 100% pro-life. The Church teaches that life is sacred, and must be protected from conception until natural death. There is no room on that teaching for the death penalty, except as Prodigal_Son has so elequently noted.

What does this question have to do with George Bush? Are you suggesting it is ok to vote for someone that is 10% pro-life?