Your thoughts on lying to get a job

[cathgal]

I think lying in itself is not mortal sin, but the gravity of lying is. I think it’s impossible to live your entire life without lying at least once. I don’t think all situation in life can make us be truthful. What I’m talking about is small lies. I don’t condone lies that’ll hurt someone. Never that. There are lies that wouldn’t affect a person being lied to whether they know the truth or not. Then there are lies because it’s none of their business to know of the truth in the first place.

 

[BobCatholic]

compactdiss:

I did what I had to do today.

I was fired because I went to HR over my boss insulting my wife and my religion the Catholic religion and then he talked about burning crosses which was a racist comment.

. The company found a way to get rid of me after I turned him in, I would never have been to HR and fired if I had let him continue to insult me. They found a way to come up with “poor performance” as an excuse.

The company did me wrong, if it was wrong for me to lie today in order to feed my children then so be it. God will provide for me.

Sounds like a great lawsuit. Hire a lawyer. Sue that company into the ground and make sure they fire that KKK boss.

Tell them you were fired for reporting someone for being racist.

 

[compactdiss]

Here’s an update for you.

I had a job call me to set up an interview. I was told I would get the e-mail shortly with the interview agenda. The lady asked me why I left my last job. I said “personal reasons” which I would explain during the interview. Once I said “personal reasons” there was a long dead silence on the phone. Then she went on to say I would hear form them.

Guess what non-sinners out there who bashed me in the thread. No e-mail, no call back.

I’m still kind of angry at a lot fo your replies in this thread, some of you were out of line and I’m waiting for you to speak up. This is a Catholic board and you are suppsoed to be a little bit better than the average internet surfer.

 

[st_felicity]

compactdiss:

Here’s an update for you.

I had a job call me to set up an interview. I was told I would get the e-mail shortly with the interview agenda. The lady asked me why I left my last job. I said “personal reasons” which I would explain during the interview. Once I said “personal reasons” there was a long dead silence on the phone. Then she went on to say I would hear form them.

Guess what non-sinners out there who bashed me in the thread. No e-mail, no call back.

I’m still kind of angry at a lot fo your replies in this thread, some of you were out of line and I’m waiting for you to speak up. This is a Catholic board and you are suppsoed to be a little bit better than the average internet surfer.

I must admit, I did not read with an eye for detail all of the posts here, but to confirm someone in their sin would be a sin. How can anyone here say to you…“go ahead, ignore the commandment of God…he’ll understand.” We don’t know you. Perhaps there is some mitigating factor that will render you less culpable for breaking the 8th commandment. It does seem questionable since you know lying is a sin (full knowledge), you want to do it so you can get the job (full consent), and–is it a grave matter? I don’t know…but speaking personally…I COULDN’T do it. I would feel I was rationalizing and equivocating and lying to myself also.

I am so sorry you are in such a difficult position–I will pray for you–but will lying make it better in the long run–for ETERNITY? Good luck to you–and prayers.

 

[misericordie]

newf:

You are not “forced to lie”…You “choose” to lie.

Your best bet is to be upfront and honest.

Why were you termintated?

Okay, seems many here do not know the CATHOLIC meaning of a lie. According to Aquinas: “one does not lie if one withholds the truth from someone who does not have the** RIGHT** to know the truth.”

 

[misericordie]

compactdiss:

I am truly sorry but I am also in a situation where my family is going to suffer if I do not have the money coming in, first thing not to be paid is my child support. How does my 12 year old daughter feel if the money stops, there are other issues.

I do not work in an industry where they accept people who have been fired. The priest and I talked. I was forgiven by God. I prayed on it and went to Mass after. If we were in a religion where there was no forgiveness where would we all be?

Those of you who say that it is absolutley wrong for me to do what I have done.
Have you never sinned? Have you never gone over the speed limit? Have you never lusted? Have you never said a bad word? If you have never sinned then I want to hear from you but as far as I know we are all sinners.
That’s why when I said the Rosary today I said “Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death”.

I am just a small small individual in the entire world who is looking to do good and do better each day by living by God’s words.

I really feels for you friend, really. I know what it’s like to be without a job. I am in that right now. I also know that at times when one is in crisis, many friends and even family turn their backs in total selfishness and indiference, becuase guess what: THEY are not in your shoes. I know, oh man do I know I am there and am so darn deppressed because of all this. I ask God not to allow me to harbor anger and resentment, not only at life but at some siblings. I do know ONE thing: when worse comes to worse in life NO ONE WILL BE THERE but you and GOD, and maybe ONE very caring, compassionate friend who really lives Christ. All esle will be just talking the talk but not walking the walk.
I am sure some here have NEVER been without work, or if they thay have: they have PLENTY of surplus money to spend for many, many months after they are without work.
Hang in there friend, you and you only with GOD will get throught this time of calvary.
By the way, if your former employer “fired” you for religious reasons: HIRE a lawyer and get HIS advice. Just see where you can go: ask HIM or HER. Give them the facts. What I would have done is make a written notation of the times and dates and Who said what and where, and why ON PAPER!! (serves good in Court). I know if I were you: I would seek a LAW SUIT!!! There, that would help you with your no job economic troubles by the way too. Enough, just ask a lawyer, then hire him.

 

[Trelow]

misericordie:

Okay, seems many here do not know the CATHOLIC meaning of a lie. According to Aquinas: “one does not lie if one withholds the truth from someone who does not have the** RIGHT** to know the truth.”

I cannot envision any circumstance where a prospective employer would-not have the right to know why you are no longer with your former employer.

 

[Jesus4Me]

What is it you would like to hear from us? From what I have read, the posts on this thread have been giving you some advice on whether or not you should lie about why you were fired. Maybe some posters have been not so warm and fuzzy, but I think most of us are telling you that lying is wrong. I really don’t think that we’re telling you anything you didn’t already know. If what you want is for us to tell you that lying can be justifed - well, I don’t think you’re going to get that here. In the short time I’ve been posting on CA I have sensed many, many people who stand up for what is right and yes, many who are actually passionate about it. Lying is lying - no matter how you slice it. There is no way to justify it. I know it’s not what you want to hear, but it is truth.

BTW - I have been without a job and no-one else to turn to. I did not have children at the time so I cannot entirely relate and I did not have the same circumstances as you do. But, I would very much like to believe that I would stand by God and obey him even in that situation.

I can only speak for myself and I do not condemn you for whatever choice you make. However, if you are asking for and honest opinion - I think that is what you are getting from the posters here.

I will pray for you and I’d be willing to bet that there are a lot of people praying for you from this board.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

compactdiss:

I’m still kind of angry at a lot fo your replies in this thread, some of you were out of line and I’m waiting for you to speak up. This is a Catholic board and you are suppsoed to be a little bit better than the average internet surfer.

I am not going to throw stones at you. I used to be completely open and honest with employers, but now I know it is not always best.

That said, you need to get over that anger. What did you expect from Catholic apologists and apologist wannabees? They only pointed fingers in direct response to your question, and many of them are “by the book” absolute, no chance for adjustment.

It’s a bit too late to do this about your old job, but if you were still there it would be nice to learn some techniques of dealing with the kind of harassment you were being dealt,at least until you can find a new job.

When it comes to lies, corporations are the best at it. Do not believe the garbage they spew about it being an equal opportunity employer who wants to avoid “hostile work place.” In most companies, there are a few select managers who try to bring that about but mostly it’s spew for the media and lawyers.

I know. I was chewed up and spit out for the crime of being apparently the only one in our entire division who actually bought into the company mission statement.

Makes you want to hurt people and break things, but that won’t help either. Only the peace of Christ can keep one sane while trying to maintain some form of integrity in this mixed up world.

Alan

 

[misericordie]

AlanFromWichita:

I am not going to throw stones at you. I used to be completely open and honest with employers, but now I know it is not always best.

That said, you need to get over that anger. What did you expect from Catholic apologists and apologist wannabees? They only pointed fingers in direct response to your question, and many of them are “by the book” absolute, no chance for adjustment.

It’s a bit too late to do this about your old job, but if you were still there it would be nice to learn some techniques of dealing with the kind of harassment you were being dealt,at least until you can find a new job.

When it comes to lies, corporations are the best at it. Do not believe the garbage they spew about it being an equal opportunity employer who wants to avoid “hostile work place.” In most companies, there are a few select managers who try to bring that about but mostly it’s spew for the media and lawyers.

I know. I was chewed up and spit out for the crime of being apparently the only one in our entire division who actually bought into the company mission statement.

Makes you want to hurt people and break things, but that won’t help either. Only the peace of Christ can keep one sane while trying to maintain some form of integrity in this mixed up world.

Alan

Yup.

 

[DeniseR]

I feel for you, losing your job the way you did. I was wrongly fired last year. The owner of the small business I worked for was stretching himself too thin and couldn’t afford to keep me on as office manager. He cut my hours in half to 20 per week and said he would understand if I looked for work elsewhere. The writing was on the wall. I began looking for another job and took partial unemployment. Apparently he didn’t know I could get partial unemployment and when he found out he took it personal (it costs a company money when someone takes out unemployment). He fired me right then and there.

Then he fought my unemployment saying I wasn’t doing a good job and I had made some mistakes. He had cut my hours in half, expected me to continue doing the same amount of work and wanted me to learn other aspects of the production in addition to my other duties in the office. He set up an impossible situation for me.

When asked why I left my previous job, I told perspective employers that my hours were cut in half and then I was permanently let go due to financial reasons with the company. It was true but I didn’t mention that I was fired. There are always two sides to the story and if he was going to tell the state unemployment insurance people that I walked out so he wouldn’t have to pay unemployment, he wasn’t going to give me a bad recommendation because he didn’t want me on unemployment any longer than necessary. The other employee told me he never told anyone who asked that I was fired but that I left.

I didn’t feel it was lying because when I applied for other jobs I really didn’t want I told them I was fired and explained the circumstances. They never called me back. When I applied for a job I really wanted that I now have – at a bank – I didn’t tell them I was fired but let go due to financial reasons. I got the job.

Many people say I had the right to sue him for wrongful termination. I chose not to. It was less stressful to just leave and try to forgive and forget.

To Joe: I know how you feel. I’m not the type of person to be fired. I’ve always been a good worker. I never steal pens or post-its from work. I do my best and try to give an honest day’s work for my paycheck. I always came to work on time and never took sick days. It seemed so unfair to be fired. It feels like a stigma. Even though I know I did nothing wrong, I felt like I wasn’t valuable to the company and was a throw-away commodity to him. It’s impossible not to take it personally. It must be doubly difficult for a head of household to support a family and suddenly your income is gone.

You’ve gone to confession. You’ve been praying about it – keep it up. You may have better luck working for a larger company because they have written policies against abusive, sexist, and racist talk and they enforce it more than a smaller company would. You’re in my prayers.

 

[misericordie]

DeniseR:

I feel for you, losing your job the way you did. I was wrongly fired last year. The owner of the small business I worked for was stretching himself too thin and couldn’t afford to keep me on as office manager. He cut my hours in half to 20 per week and said he would understand if I looked for work elsewhere. The writing was on the wall. I began looking for another job and took partial unemployment. Apparently he didn’t know I could get partial unemployment and when he found out he took it personal (it costs a company money when someone takes out unemployment). He fired me right then and there.

Then he fought my unemployment saying I wasn’t doing a good job and I had made some mistakes. He had cut my hours in half, expected me to continue doing the same amount of work and wanted me to learn other aspects of the production in addition to my other duties in the office. He set up an impossible situation for me.

When asked why I left my previous job, I told perspective employers that my hours were cut in half and then I was permanently let go due to financial reasons with the company. It was true but I didn’t mention that I was fired. There are always two sides to the story and if he was going to tell the state unemployment insurance people that I walked out so he wouldn’t have to pay unemployment, he wasn’t going to give me a bad recommendation because he didn’t want me on unemployment any longer than necessary. The other employee told me he never told anyone who asked that I was fired but that I left.

I didn’t feel it was lying because when I applied for other jobs I really didn’t want I told them I was fired and explained the circumstances. They never called me back. When I applied for a job I really wanted that I now have – at a bank – I didn’t tell them I was fired but let go due to financial reasons. I got the job.

Many people say I had the right to sue him for wrongful termination. I chose not to. It was less stressful to just leave and try to forgive and forget.

To Joe: I know how you feel. I’m not the type of person to be fired. I’ve always been a good worker. I never steal pens or post-its from work. I do my best and try to give an honest day’s work for my paycheck. I always came to work on time and never took sick days. It seemed so unfair to be fired. It feels like a stigma. Even though I know I did nothing wrong, I felt like I wasn’t valuable to the company and was a throw-away commodity to him. It’s impossible not to take it personally. It must be doubly difficult for a head of household to support a family and suddenly your income is gone.

You’ve gone to confession. You’ve been praying about it – keep it up. You may have better luck working for a larger company because they have written policies against abusive, sexist, and racist talk and they enforce it more than a smaller company would. You’re in my prayers.

What an experience. That boss sure had some issues. And to try to prevent you from getting unemployment! No wonder things were going sour for him! What goes around comes around. All, the best thing always is to work officially ON the books, and have a UNION!!! Then if a situation as this arises, one can SUE!!! For wrongful termination. Document everything!! The bad treatment the co-workers or bosses give, EVERYTHING ON PAPER with dates and times. Just don’t let them see you writing.
I learned to do that always!! I NOW!! DOCUMENT all, if I am verbally harrrassed, insultes, etc by bosses: I WRITE IT DOWN!! What was said by whom, and where day and time.

 

[RosieQ]

Leaving aside the moral issue, practically, you will be in a much worse situation in the future if a few weeks or months from now a new employer discovers that you were fired from your previous position, and then fires you for lying about it. This is extremely unfortunate, and it appears from your description of the circumstances of your firing, extremely unfair.

You should definitely seek legal advice regarding your firing. I realise that at the moment, the expense of a lawyer may appear to be impossible, but in many areas there are a variety of free or heavily subsidised legal services available. Call a few lawyers, you may find someone who will offer you a free consultation (I always like to know what my options are, if the lawyer believes you have a strong case, you can decide whether to try to find a means of pursuing it). I am guessing you are American, I can’t recall exactly the rules on legal fees in the US, but you could see whether you could find someone willing to work (at least in part) on the basis of a contingency fee - meaning that if your case was successful, you would pay the lawyer a percentage of the money you received in compensation. Why not contact the ACLU? You probably do not always see eye to eye with them, but they may be a resource. Also look for religious organisations that advocate for the rights of people of faith (you may find some Protestant organisations who would be willing to help you), or for Catholic lawyers in your parish who may be willing to give you some advice. Did the company that fired you have a method of filing internal human rights complaints? If so, see if you can still file a complaint. As someone else said, document, document, document. Start now, write down everything you remember. If you file a complaint, keep a photocopy of it in your own files, make notes of any telephone conversation you have (date, time, who you spoke to, detailed notes of what you discussed).

 

[misericordie]

RosieQ:

Leaving aside the moral issue, practically, you will be in a much worse situation in the future if a few weeks or months from now a new employer discovers that you were fired from your previous position, and then fires you for lying about it. This is extremely unfortunate, and it appears from your description of the circumstances of your firing, extremely unfair.

You should definitely seek legal advice regarding your firing. I realise that at the moment, the expense of a lawyer may appear to be impossible, but in many areas there are a variety of free or heavily subsidised legal services available. Call a few lawyers, you may find someone who will offer you a free consultation (I always like to know what my options are, if the lawyer believes you have a strong case, you can decide whether to try to find a means of pursuing it). I am guessing you are American, I can’t recall exactly the rules on legal fees in the US, but you could see whether you could find someone willing to work (at least in part) on the basis of a contingency fee - meaning that if your case was successful, you would pay the lawyer a percentage of the money you received in compensation. Why not contact the ACLU? You probably do not always see eye to eye with them, but they may be a resource. Also look for religious organisations that advocate for the rights of people of faith (you may find some Protestant organisations who would be willing to help you), or for Catholic lawyers in your parish who may be willing to give you some advice. Did the company that fired you have a method of filing internal human rights complaints? If so, see if you can still file a complaint. As someone else said, document, document, document. Start now, write down everything you remember. If you file a complaint, keep a photocopy of it in your own files, make notes of any telephone conversation you have (date, time, who you spoke to, detailed notes of what you discussed).

AMEN!!! YES!!! THE ACLU is good in this: liberal but a good source that I TOO would seek.

 

[compactdiss]

I appreciate the latest response here.
I am over the situation.

I called the HR lady back from the most recent job that I stated “personal reasons” for leaving. I said I had not received an agenda for an interview like she said I would receive. Her answer to me was that they were considering two candidates and I was not considered unless they expand their search-BUT she had previously told me I would be sent an agenda for an interview…I was put out of the mix without an interview. I said ok, thank you and let it go.

I am no longer being frustrated over losing my job. I am taking my free time to get closer to God. I will be getting unemployment and I did get a part time job doing retail. Although the money will be nowhere close to what I was making-my wife and I will adjust until something else happens.

I am also no longer angry at anyone here. Like what was said above “what did I expect” but I understand your feelings and positons. Those of you in similar situations, thank you for sharing and relating your stories to mine.

Until then I continue to pray for a better relationship with God-

 

[misericordie]

compactdiss:

I appreciate the latest response here.
I am over the situation.

I called the HR lady back from the most recent job that I stated “personal reasons” for leaving. I said I had not received an agenda for an interview like she said I would receive. Her answer to me was that they were considering two candidates and I was not considered unless they expand their search-BUT she had previously told me I would be sent an agenda for an interview…I was put out of the mix without an interview. I said ok, thank you and let it go.

I am no longer being frustrated over losing my job. I am taking my free time to get closer to God. I will be getting unemployment and I did get a part time job doing retail. Although the money will be nowhere close to what I was making-my wife and I will adjust until something else happens.

I am also no longer angry at anyone here. Like what was said above “what did I expect” but I understand your feelings and positons. Those of you in similar situations, thank you for sharing and relating your stories to mine.

Until then I continue to pray for a better relationship with God-

Good. But, take all the good advice here for future situations, don’t ever sell youself short with this: we all have RIGHTS.

 

[DeniseR]

I’m glad you found peace with this. That is the whole reason I decided not to sue my former employer. Any money I would have made would not have been worth the emotional and physical toll it would have taken to win it. I decided to learn from the experience, pray for my former employer, and take advantage of the fact that I had 6 months to find the job I wanted, instead of the first one that came along.

Good luck and God bless!

 

[cheddarsox]

Here is what I have learned from my own personal experiences. Truth is better off in the long run. You are right there are some employers who will hold certain things against you without bothering to hear an explanation. But they are the same kind you just left.

good employers know that bad situations happen to good people. Good employers appreciate and take time to hear the truth. I have told prospective employers things during interviews that everyone told me I should shut up about, but when I was hired, the employer told me my honesty and frankness were what landed me the job.

I don’t think it is necessary or desireable to bad mouth anyone, or go into gory detail. Just provide basic necessary facts, and BE WHO YOU ARE. That is the best way to end up with a job you can live with, working with people who respect what you respect. It wont get you every job, but it will get you the right job!

blessings,
cheddar

 

[misericordie]

cheddarsox:

Here is what I have learned from my own personal experiences. Truth is better off in the long run. You are right there are some employers who will hold certain things against you without bothering to hear an explanation. But they are the same kind you just left.

good employers know that bad situations happen to good people. Good employers appreciate and take time to hear the truth. I have told prospective employers things during interviews that everyone told me I should shut up about, but when I was hired, the employer told me my honesty and frankness were what landed me the job.

I don’t think it is necessary or desireable to bad mouth anyone, or go into gory detail. Just provide basic necessary facts, and BE WHO YOU ARE. That is the best way to end up with a job you can live with, working with people who respect what you respect. It wont get you every job, but it will get you the right job!

blessings,
cheddar

Yes very good I agree too. Also, any employer who refuses to even listen is not worth working for: that is just an arrogant…

 

[stbruno]

A close acquaintance of mine was let go from her position because she was a “whistle blower” about some unsavory and illegal practices of her former boss. She worked for this company for over 25 years as well. Since then she has a new job and she is so much happier about it. The job pays a little less, but there are no longer any back door policies that she has to live with…when one door closes…God opens a window. Keep praying on it.