Your thoughts please

[MacQ]

ONLY if we can get Bill Clintions take on it

I’d rather not…

 

[MacQ]

LETS GET BACK on track here:

The issue is TRUTH as it relates to the possibility of there being ONLY ONE TRUE CHURCH.

Agree or disagree and explain why

The TRUTH is, I think it was a flawed question in the first place.
Are you really asking: which church has the one and only truth?
If so, why all the fluffy philosophics?

 

[MacQ]

Giving up is in a sense a way to get to what JRKH’s statement might be pointing to. Only it can’t be just about some small item, but everything. How else would one have a taste of what IS is? What are you without your ideas and thoughts about them?? For me, JRKH’s questions make great sense. As I pointed out, there are profound assumptions behind the OP’s presentation, and a great leap.

Glad they are so profound to you and make sense to you.
I hope your “is” tastes good confused

Reminds me of a joke where a guy just knew he had deep profound thoughts when he was high on pot…so he decided to write them down.
Next day he rushed to find his note from the night before…it said “Pizza is good”.

 

[Hans_W]

Like the Trinity, for example. BUT does THAT mean that lack of understanding VOIDS “truth?”

After reading all the opinions posted, I still stick with my original suggestion that the “Truth” is above our human understanding. Not multiple, not relative, but simply beyond our grasp.

If we think we can find the one “truth”, for example the one “True Church” then we get into the petty debates over “my church is better or truer than yours”. This then easily leads to arguments around “my god is better than yours”.

I agree, we Catholics have the one ‘true’ church founded by Christ, but the real fullness of the truth is hidden from our little earthly brain until we die.

Another thought: what about the millions of people who lived before Christ and the ones who lived afterwards and haven’t heard about Christ? I guess that they also have a right of thinking they have the “truth”.

 

[PJM]

=cmodrmac;12000971]If "Truth: exist, it MUST be singular.

So there can be but One True Church

Why is your church the one? Or why is it not the One

the premise is false -

get yourself a copy of Logic by Pascal

but to humor one-all the believers in Christ are the Church -there are different sects if you will but in the Episcopal Church we believe that all are doing God’s work-for example the Pope is a holy man who is doing God’s work so is Bishop Tutu of my Church as are the Lutheran Medical Missions and the work of the Moravian Church with the poor

The premis is false:shrug:

Yahweh choose just One Chosen people

Christ folowed with Just One Church

BOTH are historical and biblcal fact

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[PJM]

=House Harkonnen;12001878]There is only one church, the body of Christ.

All believers are part of it.

My particular denomination is an outward visible element of the church, as is yours and every denomination.

REALLY

So read Mt 16: 15-19; Mt. 10: 1-8, Mt 28:1620 and take noe of the singular tense used by Churst.

Eph. 4: 1-7
“] I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called, With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. One body and one Spirit; MEANS ONE CHURCH] *** as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism*. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all. But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of Christ”

John 10:16 “And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd”

Eph. 2:19-20 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

One God
can and does have just One faith

And founded and desires only One church

AND TODAYS CC WAS THE ONLY CHRISTIAN CHURCH FOR ABOUT 1,000 YEARS BEFORE THE GREAT EASTERN SCHISM IF 1054:thumbsup:

May God lead you to HIS truth friend!

 

[PJM]

=MacQ;12002248]The TRUTH is, I think it was a flawed question in the first place.
Are you really asking: which church has the one and only truth?
If so, why all the fluffy philosophics?

Hi Mac!

I didn’t ask for philosophy. I was seeking truth. Amen

 

[PJM]

=Hans W;12002345]After reading all the opinions posted, I still stick with my original suggestion that the “Truth” is above our human understanding. Not multiple, not relative, but simply beyond our grasp.

If we think we can find the one “truth”, for example the one “True Church” then we get into the petty debates over “my church is better or truer than yours”. This then easily leads to arguments around “my god is better than yours”.

I agree, we Catholics have the one ‘true’ church founded by Christ, but the real fullness of the truth is hidden from our little earthly brain until we die

.

So taking your position there is no absoulates right or wrong:shrug:

Another thought: what about the millions of people who lived before Christ and the ones who lived afterwards and haven’t heard about Christ? I guess that they also have a right of thinking they have the “truth”.

Old and New Covenanats
"Leviticus 26:12 “I will walk among you, and will be your God, and you shall be my people”

Exodus 6:7 “And I will take you to myself for my people, I will be your God: and you shall know that I am the Lord your God who brought you out from the work prison of the Egyptians.”

As for the Future:

Mt. 16: 18-19 “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[House_Harkonnen]

REALLY

So read Mt 16: 15-19; Mt. 10: 1-8, Mt 28:1620 and take noe of the singular tense used by Churst.

Eph. 4: 1-7
“] I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called, With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. One body and one Spirit; MEANS ONE CHURCH] *** as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism*. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all. But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of Christ”

John 10:16 “And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd”

Eph. 2:19-20 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

One God
can and does have just One faith

And founded and desires only One church

AND TODAYS CC WAS THE ONLY CHRISTIAN CHURCH FOR ABOUT 1,000 YEARS BEFORE THE GREAT EASTERN SCHISM IF 1054:thumbsup:

May God lead you to HIS truth friend!

I don’t understand, in my previous post I said there is only one church. Why are you trying to convince me that there is only one church?

 

[Protestor]

If “Truth”: exist, it must be singular.So there can be but One True Church. Why is your church the one? Or why is it not the One? G-d Bless you, Patrick

My church is the one, because I belong to the truly universal church that G-d created. I am catholic, because I am a christian, it’s that simple, and if someone else is a christian they are also a catholic. Do not be blinded by denominational differences.

I am so glad to be the fool who is rushing in. I hope that I do not get in trouble for using language that Jesus himself condemned. (where is that sarcasm font when you need it)

I think MacQ was saying why are you beating around the bush. He was saying why are you using fluffy philosophical language to ask a simple question. I could be wrong he can correct me

 

[MacQ]

The premis is false:shrug:

Yahweh choose just One Chosen people

Christ folowed with Just One Church

BOTH are historical and biblcal fact

God Bless you,
Patrick

Looks to me like there are thousands of Christ’s churches.
Historical fact. Literal fact. The truth!

 

[MacQ]

I think MacQ was saying why are you beating around the bush. He was saying why are you using fluffy philosophical language to ask a simple question. I could be wrong he can correct me

Aye, that’s what I was saying.
A lot of high rhetoric in some posts that is simply meaningless junk. Unimpressed, I am.
I reckon if you can’t say something straight out, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Having noticed that the very sagest of people can say things very simply.
Thanks for “getting it”.

 

[TexanKnight]

I certainly would not accept that any man has a better idea than Jesus. Beyond that, I agree that truth is not a moving target. Truth is also not determined by any one man other than Christ.

Yet Martin Luther decided he had a better idea and left to do his own thing…

go figure

 

[House_Harkonnen]

TexanKnight:

Yet Martin Luther decided he had a better idea and left to do his own thing…

go figure

Martin Luther didn’t leave, he was kicked out.

 

[TexanKnight]

Martin Luther didn’t leave, he was kicked out.

He did everything in his power to be kicked out.

It was HIS choice to do what he did. So, he left

 

[benhur]

This will be true if there is only one true definition of “Church”…

So the first discussion would need to be - what is that True definition of “Church”…

Peace
James

Amen.

 

[benhur]

that simply cannot be.

Since we have different beliefs about very critical issues, both cannot be “truth”. Only one can have all truth. Other can have some, but truth is not a moving target.

I simply cannot accept that Luther somehow had a better idea than Jesus.

And the pharisees could not accept the saducees yet both were Jewish, OT bearers of salvation.

 

[Hans_W]

.

So taking your position there is no absoulates right or wrong:shrug:

Old and New Covenanats
"Leviticus 26:12 “I will walk among you, and will be your God, and you shall be my people”

Exodus 6:7 “And I will take you to myself for my people, I will be your God: and you shall know that I am the Lord your God who brought you out from the work prison of the Egyptians.”

As for the Future:

Mt. 16: 18-19 “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”

God Bless you,
Patrick

The question was about the “Truth”, not about right and wrong.

I think there are absolutes about certain rights and wrongs. Causing pain to others (humans or animals) will always be wrong. Some rights and wrongs, however, do change. Slavery has been acceptable in the past.

 

[benhur]

Your “a priori” is not necessarily correct, it is based upon Human perception, Human rationalizations, Human experience. “Truth” can encompass anything God creates from Himself. Does one “religious belief” contain ALL “truth”? How can that be, since that belief is directly dependent upon Human reportage, Human response, Human imagination, Human everything? I think the greatest TRUTH has been recently discovered by (of all things) “science” which has now proclaimed that the Universe was created in ONE TRILLIONTH OF A SECOND. I make the analogy: we are the mouse on the “space station”; we understand our surroundings within our limitations and we believe in that understanding; we have adapted to survival within those self perceived limitations; we have no concept of space, let alone the space station we are on; we cannot design a space station; we cannot credibly interpret other things on that space station (i.e., we are basically, on this planet, ignorant of things that exist in the oceans).

SO: what is at least ONE “truth” we can rest upon: that Jesus lived, that He suffered, that He died, that He rose. I have no doubt. Many other “christian” denominations have erred seriously because of Martin Luther and we know this. However: do we absolutely KNOW that OUR specific beliefs are “right”? I don’t think it’s possible, really, for any creature to understand the Creator. I think, perhaps, what Jesus intended was to free us of “laws” and self condemnation. I think, rather, He intended us to pray as he taught us (which, by the way, came from the prayers taught to Him by the Blessed Mother as faithful to Judaism in His time). Superstitious behavior is a very well known attribute of “learning” and can be seen at every level in every species. Let us not suffer from the hubris that imagines we, the creatures, can have any full understanding of our Creator.

Well, we can have “the mind of Christ”, can know all things and have an unction from the Holy One, for as you say the mouse, flesh and blood, hath not revealed your one truth, that Christ is the Messiah, but the Father illumines the “mouse” , yet we see things thru a glass darkly for now…We do have a few solid truths that Luther nor CC erred on, the apostles/Nicene creed, written before we really to took to another level this , “I am of Peter you are of Paul” carnality.

 

[PJM]

=Protestor;12002618]My church is the one, because I belong to the truly universal church that G-d created. I am catholic, because I am a christian, it’s that simple, and if someone else is a christian they are also a catholic. Do not be blinded by denominational differences.

So friend show me ONE place in the bible where God allowed, tollreated or permitthed other faithsthat differed from HIS ONE FAITH. JUST ONE:shrug:

God Bless you,