Your view on other religions

[AsStAnselmPrays]

Steven Merten:

So your teacher believes that Satan worshipers and suicide cults are “all” leading to God? Obviously understanding world religions is not your instructors objective. He is trying to lead people away from God by implying that “all” religions are good and working for the same end. I THINK NOT!

You are very right in not buying into this instuctors deception. Have you quit the class?

Mr. Merten, I have not quit the class. I cannot, and will not. However, I will stick it out, and I will oppose his viewpoints as much as possible. I cannot let his views stand, and I know I cannot change what people believe, but I will stick up for what is right and defend the teachings of the Catholic Church, especially those of Cardinal Joseph Alois Ratzinger, “aka” Papam Benedictvm XVI.

 

[AsStAnselmPrays]

Kristina P.:

So, if we’re not to tolerate them, i.e., allow people to believe in them, what shall we do? Start a militia and force people to convert or die? I don’t see that working out too well. We’re saved by God’s grace, not by man’s coercion.

No, I’m not saying to start a war with other religions, what’s the point of that. However, we must make sure that people follow the Church, and not other human-started religious sects.

 

[Steven_Merten]

AsStAnselmPrays:

Mr. Merten, I have not quit the class. I cannot, and will not. However, I will stick it out, and I will oppose his viewpoints as much as possible. I cannot let his views stand, and I know I cannot change what people believe, but I will stick up for what is right and defend the teachings of the Catholic Church, especially those of Cardinal Joseph Alois Ratzinger, “aka” Papam Benedictvm XVI.

Go get him! Protect and defend the innocent in your class who could be lead astray.

 

[AsStAnselmPrays]

Steven Merten:

Go get him! Protect and defend the innocent in your class who could be lead astray.

For some reason, I seemed to overlook the part in one of your posts about satanism and all. He does believe that satanism is a cult, but the fact still remains that everything that isn’t evil (i.e. Taoism) somehow leads to God. I hope I didn’t get you confused into thinking that my teacher was a Satan-supporter.

However, I was surprised to read the song that he gave us. According to the song, all good deities/Supreme Beings are somehow one being, same as each other, different names.

Once again, I hope that you realize that my teacher isn’t a member of the occult.

 

[AsStAnselmPrays]

One thing that I am worried about, though, is that the people in my class who don’t believe in God will not grow closer. I fear this because if they are being taught that as long as they acknowledge some sort of higher power, they are acknowledging God. This is horribly incorrect. We cannot humor an atheist in a Catholic school. It is our job to preach the Good Word, and if we make it seem like where ever you wander, you’ll end up at God’s doorstep, the opposite will happen.

I’m becoming a priest because I want to spread the Word, I want people to believe, to have eternal life, not damnation. You have no idea how much it hurts me personally to hear people–some that aren’t even acquaintances–tell me that they don’t believe in God. I was called to serve God through the Church, to preach the Word, and to assist those in need. It pains me, worries me, and annoys me to see that this is not happening.

That is why I oppose the teachings set forth in this class. Why have the Gospel when it’s not being taught as the (or one of the) primary way(s) to learn about Christ and his teachings?

 

[Wormwood]

Steven Merten: **

NIV 1JO 5:3

This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.NIV JOH 14:15

"If you love me, you will obey what I command."
NAB ROM 13 Love Fulfills the Law.

Owe no debt to anyone except the debt that binds us to love one another. He who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery; you shall not murder; you shall not steal; you shall not covet,” and any other commandment there may be are all summed up in this, saying (namely) “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love never wrongs the neighbor, hence love is the fulfillment of the law. I don’t get it. Are you agreeing or disagreeing? You say that love has been distorted by a modern view, but I say that all major religions DO adhere to the laws you have posted. So you seem to be supporting my argument. As for your problem with the “lie” that all people are going to heaven, that is not for you to judge. In your opinion more than half of the 6 billion people on earth are going to hell, as an edict of your “loving God”. I say that Jesus was discouraging this sort of mindset. Also I find it hard to comprehend how heaven would be any less special for you if there were hindu’s or muslims there. Your idealized ethnocentric veiw is just that; idealized and ethnocentric.

AsStAnselmPrays
fact still remains that everything that isn’t evil (i.e. Taoism) somehow leads to God.

Well not if they are true taoists, because taoism is a non diety religion. At the heart of their religion is the universal will or forces of nature (not thunder and lightning, but rather the phenomenon that allows thunder and lightning). It is very similar to your veiw of God actually. The reason it seems so different on the surface is that all dieties of the time and culture were thought to be actual physical beings. The will of the universe is an etherial concept, therefore non-diety oriented by the cultural context.

That is why I oppose the teachings set forth in this class. Why have the Gospel when it’s not being taught as the (or one of the) primary way(s) to learn about Christ and his teachings?

Because you are refering to a WORLD RELIGION class. Christianity is not the religion of the world, not even half. Conservative estimates place christians at about 1/6 of the world pop or less. The class was meant to open your obviously closed mind and help you realized that bickering between religions only detracts from both sides and no one wins. Since you all have common goals as posted above, we should strive to abolish the primary reason there are so many wars. That reason is religious bickering and intollerance. For you to feel so sorry for these people, you must first know that you and only you are correct. That you have yet to prove.**

 

[Genesis315]

AsStAnselmPrays:

My World Religions teacher said last Friday that all the religions and belief systems of the world are like many rivers leading to the same body of water. Of course, this “body of water” is God. However, I don´t share his view.

**

Wormwood:
Because you are refering to a WORLD RELIGION class. Christianity is not the religion of the world, not even half. Conservative estimates place christians at about 1/6 of the world pop or less. The class was meant to open your obviously closed mind and help you realized that bickering between religions only detracts from both sides and no one wins.

Actually, a World Religion Class should teach some history about the major world religions and what those that profess these religions believe. The teacher seems to not be doing this, but rather has made a dogmatic statement believed by a religion–some brand of vague universalism–that I would not classify as a World Religion.

**

 

[Wormwood]

**

Actually, a World Religion Class should teach some history about the major world religions and what those that profess these religions believe. The teacher seems to not be doing this, but rather has made a dogmatic statement believed by a religion–some brand of vague universalism–that I would not classify as a World Religion.

My quote that you seem to have misunderstood, was in reference to the question of why his teacher did not use the gospels as a primary method of teaching (about christianity?). So my reply would be stating that the reason is because in a world religion class you are learning about all or most of the major world religions. Also in response to the teacher’s comments being based on religion, I believe this all took place in a catholic school, so if so that shaping religion must be catholicism…and as it turns out that is indeed the case…

Some points I heard form John Paul II that I have always taken to heart, and try to live by:

1. We are not to judge - only God is.
2. It is imperative that people are treated with dignity, and an essential part of that dignity is the freedom to choose - even if they “choose wrong” in my opinion.
3. The major religions (Judaism, Catholilcism, Islamic) all worship Abraham’s God.
4. The bigger imperative is that the world doesn’t understand where it came from, or why it’s here, so it suffers in sin (culture of death, terrorism, violation of humans rights and dignities). We should all focus on that, as all these religions claim that those are important sins to correct.
5. There are things we don’t completely understand about the world’s religions, and one day God will share the answers with us.

He actually said all of these.

Thank you.**

 

[reen12]

Dear AsStAnselmPrays,

quote: AsStAnselmPrays

Now, don´t get me wrong. I love my brothers and sisters of this world, but I cannot–I refuse to–accept or agree with their beliefs, doctrines, and dogmas, especially those which the Church has denounced.

OK.

You see, those in the other denominations also say,
with regard to Catholicism:
I refuse to accept beliefs or doctrines which conflict
with my faith.

Members of any denomination, are members, because
they accept that what is taught in that denomination is true.

A Lutheran, for example, does not live in 1537- h/she
lives in 2005. That individual may have been raised a
Lutheran and taught that what the RCC teaches is error.

That person might hold, with equal vigor, that h/she will
not accept the doctrines or beliefs of the RCC.

Ecumenism, IMHO, is treating those of other faiths
with respect, as human beings, while holding to
the truths of your own faith. It does not mean holding
that, what another believes, is simply another “path”
to truth.

Additionally, ecumenism may mean understanding,
with clarity, what another person holds to be true.
This way, no member of any denomination “rejects”
something that isn’t taught to begin with, in another faith.
That’s part of respect, I think.

Best,
reen12

 

[Steven_Merten]

Wormwood:

Steven Merten:I don’t get it. Are you agreeing or disagreeing? You say that love has been distorted by a modern view, but I say that all major religions DO adhere to the laws you have posted. So you seem to be supporting my argument. As for your problem with the “lie” that all people are going to heaven, that is not for you to judge. In your opinion more than half of the 6 billion people on earth are going to hell, as an edict of your “loving God”. I say that Jesus was discouraging this sort of mindset. Also I find it hard to comprehend how heaven would be any less special for you if there were hindu’s or muslims there. Your idealized ethnocentric veiw is just that; idealized and ethnocentric.

Hello Wormwood,

You manipulate what I say. Where did I ever judge half of six billion people as going to hell or even one individual as going to hell? I did not. I repeat the messages of my Lord Jesus Christ which warn people about eternal damnation out of love for neighbor. WARNING! Jesus Does Not Forgive All

You say that all major religions do adhere to God’s commandments. Well then the world must be in a lot better moral condition than most believe. Do you really believe that their are no abortions, divorces, murders, stealing going on and everyone worshiping God alone, not pagan gods, on Sunday in obedience to Jesus? I think you are decieving yourself.

I do see you judgeing me according to your anti-Judeo Christian modernist attitude. You judge me as “Your idealized ethnocentric veiw is just that; idealized and ethnocentric.” I, on the other hand, simply repeat Jesus’ loving warnings on who will be damned.

**NAB JOH 12:47 **

"If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I am not the one to condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words already has his judge, namely, the word I have spoken - it is that which will condemn him on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to speak. Since I know that his commandment means eternal life, whatever I say is spoken just as he instructed me." NAB DEU 6:1

"These then are the commandments, the statutes and decrees which the LORD, your God, has ordered that you be taught to observe in the land into which you are crossing for conquest, so that you and your son and your grandson may fear the LORD, your God, and keep, throughout the days of your lives, all his statutes and commandments which I enjoin on you, and thus have long life. Hear then, Israel, and be careful to observe them, that you may grow and prosper the more in keeping with the promise of the LORD, the God of your fathers, to give you a land flowing with milk and honey." The great commandment. Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone! Therefore, you shall love the LORD, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength. Take to heart these words which I enjoin on you today. Drill them into your children. Speak of them at home and abroad, whether you are busy or at rest. Bind them at your wrist as a sign and let them be as a pendant on your forehead. Write them on the doorposts of your houses and on your gates.
**NAB JOH 15:10 **

"You will live in my love if you keep my commandments, even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and live in his love."

 

[Mickey]

reen12:

Ecumenism, IMHO, is treating those of other faiths
with respect, as human beings, while holding to
the truths of your own faith. It does not mean holding
that, what another believes, is simply another “path”
to truth.

This is keen insight, reen. Those of other faiths have been born into that faith and have oftentimes been taught errors and misrepresentations. We are called to embrace them with love and understanding.

Peace,
Mickey

 

[Contarini]

AsStAnselmPrays:

My World Religions teacher said last Friday that all the religions and belief systems of the world are like many rivers leading to the same body of water. Of course, this “body of water” is God. However, I don´t share his view.

I just can´t seem to comprehend why God would have Christ create a Church (somewhat based on Judaism) and not want to have everyone be a part of it.

Now, I see Ecumenicalism (sorry if I´m botching the spelling up) in two ways: one way is that it means that all religions turn Catholic; the other is that of tolerance between each and every religion.

My person view is that if we were discussing Ecumenicalism, we should be discussing the possibility that all religious sects join the Catholic Church. If Ecumenicalism should mean that we must tolerate each other, I would have to disagree with it.

Also, notice that Christ was the founder of Catholicism, but every other religion was founded by a HUMAN. Martin Luther for Protestantism (although many, many other people broke away before him), Muhammed for Islam, Sidhartha Gautauma for Buddhism, etc. Why then, should we be able to join religions that were created by FALLIBLE HUMANS rather than join the religion that was created by the PERFECT CHRIST?

Now, don´t get me wrong. I love my brothers and sisters of this world, but I cannot–I refuse to–accept or agree with their beliefs, doctrines, and dogmas, especially those which the Church has denounced.

A few important distinctions to keep in mind:

1. Protestantism is not another religion. It is another (in your view a deviant) form of the same religion, Christianity. (Actually, as anyone here can tell you, Protestantism is not one movement but many.)
2. Ecumenism refers not to relationships among religions but to relationships within Christianity. For you as a Catholic, ecumenism refers to your relationship with Orthodoxy and the various forms of Protestantism. What your teacher is talking about is interfaith relations, not ecumenism.
3. Tolerance does not mean accepting what other people believe. The term has been twisted to mean that today, but it’s important (as with “ecumenism” and " religion") to avoid this blurry usage. Tolerance can mean different things depending on the context. In the context of civil society, for instnace, it means that you allow other points of view to exist and don’t try to make them illegal or restrict them.
4. Protestants claim to be part of the one Church founded by Christ. We do not see Luther as our “founder” but as a significant figure within the history of the Church.

With regard to what your teacher said, you’re right to disagree. Buddhists, for instance, think that seeking union with a personal God is only a penultimate goal at best, a sign of someone who has not yet reached enlightenment. So how is it respectful of Buddhism to say that their faith leads toward God?

Edwin

 

[Kay_Cee]

Is this teacher Christian? If he is, you can show him that Paul disagrees with him.

As we were going to the place of prayer, we met a slave girl with an oracular spirit, who used to bring a large profit to her owners through her fortune-telling. She began to follow Paul and us, shouting, “These people are slaves of the Most High God, who proclaim to you a way of salvation.” She did this for many days. Paul became annoyed, turned, and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” Then it came out at that moment. (Acts 16: 16-18)

So how did Paul know the words this girl was shouting were from a demon? It was because she said Paul proclaimed **a way **of salvation, not the way of salvation.

 

[reen12]

Hi, Mickey,

quote: Mickey

This is keen insight, reen. Those of other faiths have been born into that faith and have oftentimes been taught errors and misrepresentations. We are called to embrace them with love and understanding.

You know, I came to an understanding of “respect”, in this
regard, by looking at other websites.

Some of what I read, on some of those sites, is stomach-wrenching, in terms of the caricatures of other faiths, and the seeming ill-will, toward those of differing beliefs.
“Bashing” just doesn’t cover it.

I don’t mind, so much, if someone disagrees with what
I hold. But at least do me the courtesy of clearly
understanding what I hold…and why.

That is the bright promise of ecumenism, to me.
Speaking with one another, in mercy and with respect.

mea culpa’s, in this
regard, I’m ashamed to say. And I know when I’ve
failed, because I can’t “look God in the eye”, so to speak.]

Kinda like Adam and Eve, hiding in some shrubs, when
God came to speak with them.

“I understand you were dialoging with a snake,
this afternoon…”
Adam: “It’s her fault…”

Lord have mercy on us all,

Kindest regards,

Maureen

 

[Montie_Claunch]

Wormwood:

Well the Mayans weren’t big on child sacrifice,

Thats why I put (I think) on there. 'Cause I was not sure so I wanted people to know what I said about the mayens was not to be taken as Gods truth.

 

[rwoehmke]

AsStAnselmPrays:

UPDATE: Today in class, my teacher showed us a quick song on his class website. It was all about our God being another person’s God and so on and so forth. Why? Why does he believe this? If we believed in the same God, why shouldn’t we just all start worshiping in everyone else’s churches? We all believe in the same thing, right? So why not completely demolish the walls seperating the religions and denominations? Why not? Right? WRONG. We believe in different Gods. And for those who believe in Jehovah, they follow practices other than what He told us to do, therefore, not truly following God.

I think your soul might rest a little more comfortably if you checked out what the Cathecism of the Catholic Church has to say about non-Catholic Christans, then Jews and Muslims, and finally those who don’t believe in God as such. You and most of us on this forum recognize that all religions are not equal and that the Catholic Church is the true Church, but that does not mean that those who are non-Catholic cannot be saved. One cannot expect that a prof in a non-Catholic University in particular is ever going to teach that the Catholic Church is the only true church with the fullness of Faith. It is commendable that you wish to become a priest, but I think you will need to learn a mediocum of tolerance and ability to accept people where they are at.

 

[Wormwood]

You manipulate what I say.

Me?! Does that sound like something…I would…errr …ok continue.

Where did I ever judge half of six billion people as going to hell or even one individual as going to hell?

By being so adamant that Catholics are the only ones going to heaven, you are by association saying that all else won’t be going. The fact is that is not your call to make.

You say that all major religions do adhere to God’s commandments. Well then the world must be in a lot better moral condition than most believe. Do you really believe that their are no abortions, divorces, murders, stealing going on and everyone worshiping God alone, not pagan gods, on Sunday in obedience to Jesus? I think you are decieving yourself.

Either you’re being stubborn or blind, I can’t tell which yet. First of all, by reasoning of your argument all crime is perpetrated by religious people. If this IS truly the case, I vote to outlaw all religion tonight and be done with crime forever. Secondly, the moral commandments had nothing to do with Jesus or sunday morning, they had to do with your behavior towards your fellow man. All major religions DO preach that it is wrong to steal and murder and break your bonds. I don’t see how you can say these people are wrong and be so sure of yourself? Is there a gospel of Merten I should know about?

Montie Claunch
Thats why I put (I think) on there. 'Cause I was not sure so I wanted people to know what I said about the mayens was not to be taken as Gods truth.

And that is why I corrected you, so you could know. I wasn’t trying to be malicious, just sarcastic

 

[Steven_Merten]

Wormwood:

Secondly, the moral commandments had nothing to do with Jesus or sunday morning, they had to do with your behavior towards your fellow man. All major religions DO preach that it is wrong to steal and murder and break your bonds. I don’t see how you can say these people are wrong and be so sure of yourself? Is there a gospel of Merten I should know about?

I do not expect a pagan or agnostic to know Jesus’ and the Father’s commandments. Here are God’s commandments to keep holy the sabbath, not to worship false gods and not to take God’s name in vain. To obey God’s commandments is to love God with your whole heart as Jesus commands for recieving eternal life.

NAB DEU 5:6

‘I, the LORD, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. You shall not have other gods besides me. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them.** For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishments for their fathers’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation but bestowing mercy, down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments. 'You shall not take the name of the LORD, your God, in vain.** For the LORD will not leave unpunished him who takes his name in vain. 'Take care to keep holy the sabbath day as the LORD, your God, commanded you****NAB MAR 12 The Great Commandment.

“Which is the first of all the commandments?” Jesus replied, "This is the first:

’Hear O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone!
****Therefore you shall love the Lord your God
with all your heart,

NAB LUK 10:25

"Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?" Jesus answered him: "What is written in the law? How do you read it?" He replied:

**"You shall love the Lord your God **
**with all your heart, **
**with all your soul, **
**with all your strength, **
**and with all your mind; **
and your neighbor as yourself."
Jesus said, “You have answered correctly. Do this and you shall live.”

Wormwood:

By being so adamant that Catholics are the only ones going to heaven, you are by association saying that all else won’t be going. The fact is that is not your call to make.

The “fact” is that I never said Catholics are the only ones going to heaven. I only repeated Jesus message as to those who will burn in hell WARNING! Jesus Does Not Forgive All Below I have cut and pasted all my posts. The fact is that you will not find me judging anyone, non-Catholic or Catholic, as going to hell.

So your teacher believes that Satan worshipers and suicide cults are “all” leading to God? Obviously understanding world religions is not your instructors objective. He is trying to lead people away from God by implying that “all” religions are good and working for the same end. I THINK NOT!

Jesus, my leader, loves and is compassionate more than any other person on earth. One of the ways Jesus loves people is by warning them not to take the path that leads to damnation. I, a follower of Jesus’ example, repeat His message. The problem is that the modernists have destroyed the biblical definition of love, which means to obey God’s commandments, and replaced it with the deceptive lie that love equals all people going to heaven.

You manipulate what I say. Where did I ever judge half of six billion people as going to hell or even one individual as going to hell? I did not. I repeat the messages of my Lord Jesus Christ which warn people about eternal damnation out of love for neighbor. WARNING! Jesus Does Not Forgive All

You say that all major religions do adhere to God’s commandments. Well then the world must be in a lot better moral condition than most believe. Do you really believe that their are no abortions, divorces, murders, stealing going on and everyone worshiping God alone, not pagan gods, on Sunday in obedience to Jesus? I think you are decieving yourself.

I do see you judgeing me according to your anti-Judeo Christian modernist attitude. You judge me as “Your idealized ethnocentric veiw is just that; idealized and ethnocentric.” I, on the other hand, simply repeat Jesus’ loving warnings on who will be damned.

 

[space_ghost]

…i seem to remember a certain apostle asking Christ about those that don’t do and believe as we do…

i believe his response was, are they against us? If not, then they must be for us…

Peace:thumbsup:

 

[AsStAnselmPrays]

space ghost:

…i seem to remember a certain apostle asking Christ about those that don’t do and believe as we do…

i believe his response was, are they against us? If not, then they must be for us…

Peace

Are they really for us, though? Scientology, Darwinism, Evolutionism? Are they truly on the same side as Christ? Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, are they truly on the same side as Christ? If there was a holy war, would they fight with the Christians or against the Christians? Are they as “accepting” to us as we are to them? I doubt that, or we would all be of the same religion.