Your view on other religions

[TNT]

My view on other religions

**

Like Tonka Toys and Model Aircraft and Model Railroads, and “Lord’s Supper with grape juice”:
They look good but you can’t use them, cause they are just imitations of the reality.
But, hey, man has pretended and fantasized from the beginning of his creation.
Christ gave us one Church and was not fooling around or fantasizing.
“My Flesh is meat INDEED, my Blood is drink INDEED.” Truly truly, (Hebrew oath with dual witness) “Unless you Eat the FLESH of the Son…you have no life in you.”
What protestant (the majority of “other” in the USA) is paying any heed whatsover? NONE. In fact they HATE it. It’s puzzling that they have no animosity to the E-Orhtodox, just the Roman Catholics. Maybe there is something to that.

**

 

[TNT]

All major religions DO preach that it is wrong to steal and murder and break your bonds. I don’t see how you can say these people are wrong and be so sure of yourself? Is there a gospel of Merten I should know about?

Come now, “Major” would have to bypass Talmudic Judaism and Quranic Islamists…about 1/3 of the world’s religious.

 

[AsStAnselmPrays]

My view on other religions

**Like Tonka Toys and Model Aircraft and Model Railroads, and “Lord’s Supper with grape juice”: **
They look good but you can’t use them, cause they are just imitations of the reality.
But, hey, man has pretended and fantasized from the beginning of his creation.
Christ gave us one Church and was not fooling around or fantasizing.
"My Flesh is meat INDEED, my Blood is drink INDEED." Truly truly, (Hebrew oath with dual witness) "Unless you Eat the FLESH of the Son…you have no life in you."
What protestant (the majority of “other” in the USA) is paying any heed whatsover? NONE. In fact they HATE it. It’s puzzling that they have no animosity to the E-Orhtodox, just the Roman Catholics. Maybe there is something to that.

TNT, I agree with your statements. Christ wasn’t fooling around, he was “straight up” (meaning: he didn’t make the Church optional, he made it mandatory).

 

[GoldenArrow]

Catholicism has ALL of God’s Revealed Truths.

I concede that other religions contain bits of God’s Truth, however, other religions outside Catholicism also contain lies of the Evil One. Mixing lies with Truth is Satan’s specialty, for a person thinks that all of his faith is true, by nature. In dialogue with other faiths, I focus on commonalities, but I will not concede one inch of the Truth. I don’t believe in compromises.

For example: In dialogue with Muslims, I’d focus on their belief that Jesus Christ spoke the Word of God. I’d focus on some of the Old Testament texts. I’d focus on Mary. I’d take the commonalities and I’d use them to convince my Muslim, though ecumenical dialogue, that Jesus Christ, not Mohommed, is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

But, in dialogue with a Muslim, I would NOT concede validity to anything that Mohommed had to say, for I do not believe he spoke with the Angel Gabriel.

Same goes in dialogue with a Mormon. I’d focus on our commonalities, the Truths that are genuine, that is, the Old and New Testaments, and would use these common truths to inspire the other person to believe that Joseph Smith was a liar and a fraud.

However, I would not beat Mohammed or Smith with a stick in order to draw someone into the church. This doesn’t work — at least in the beginning of dialogue. The person I’m trying to convert must make that decision for himself, after hearing the real truth.

I sort of … lead them by the hand and let God infuse them with enough Grace for conversion. If the person responds to this grace, he will see that Mohammed and Smith are false prophets. It is, afterall, Dogma, that God gives each man enough Grace for conversion.

True ecumenical dialogue draws out the commonalities of Truth and shines them up like Gold, so that the non-Catholic sees for himself the difference between real 24 Karat Gold and Iron Pyrite (Fool’s Gold). If a Catholic Apologist holds up in Ecumenical dialogue, a bar of 24K gold and a bar of Iron Pyrite, shows it to his dialogeee under the Loving Sunlight of Jesus Christ, the non-Catholic should be able to differentiate the real thing from the false thing for himself. Real Ecumenical dialogue focuses on commonalities, common Truths, and buffs them up and makes them shine out for the one he is talking with.

I also believe in Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus, but I don’t focus on this during ecumenical dialogue, for fear of scaring someone away. Being too forceful in the beginning accomplishes nothing.

We should simply show our fellow human beings the true Gold of the Catholic church, and if they can’t see the difference between Iron Pyrite and 24K, then they are not part of the pre-destinate, or are not yet ready for conversion.

 

[Wormwood]

I do see you judgeing me according to your anti-Judeo Christian modernist attitude.

I don’t have an anti-christian attitude, where does this opinion stem from? As for the “judeo” part, my last two girlfriends were jewish so I don’t see that hold weight. And your reference of “modernist” seems to be a buzzword with no real substance. Can you convey this thought in another image?

I do not expect a pagan or agnostic to know Jesus’ and the Father’s commandments.

I was refering to the ten commandments. Your dismissal is in and of itself a judgement, but it’s more than that. See what you are trying to prove with your quoted verses is that christianity is the only correct path. By making such assertions, then you are by default, claiming that all else are wrong. The evidence you provide does quite the opposite: **

“Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?” Jesus answered him:

**“What is written in the law? How do you read it?” ****He replied:

“You shall love the Lord your God
with all your heart,
with all your soul,
with all your strength,
and with all your mind;
and your neighbor as yourself.”
Jesus said, ****“You have answered correctly. Do this and you shall live.” **
****** See there it is plain and simple, no communion, no rosaries, not even necessarily involving Jesus. Love the father, and your neighbors. Your religion is one of many manifestations of the same thing. Just because there are regional differences, doesn’t mean you aren’t conveying the same sentiments. You can try to point out every minor difference between the groups, but the similarities are amazingly close, especially when one considers that some of these groups never came into contact while forging their very similar religions. You use “holy scripture” to point out the flaws in other’s religions, but the other religions also have holy scriptures, fully of miraculous characters. Could it be possible that God also revealed his laws to them? Seems likely that he would, if he truly loved all people.

Space Ghost:

…i seem to remember a certain apostle asking Christ about those that don’t do and believe as we do…

i believe his response was, are they against us? If not, then they must be for us…

Peace:thumbsup:

Good point. It seems like “good christians” would want to look for the verses supporting God’s love for people outside of the middle east. Good to see at least one person who still remembers “christian values” .

 

[Wormwood]

Are they really for us, though? Scientology, Darwinism, Evolutionism? Are they truly on the same side as Christ?

I was aware of scientology, but are darwinism and evolutionism religions now? And wouldn’t they be the same religion? Also when you look at the main focus of each religion, you will find a common theme of loving your neighbor etc. The case seems to be that you are comparing the 6th grade to the 12th grade…which is correct? They are both correct, one is just more in depth than the other.( you can draw your own conclusions about which is which, I don’t want to start a second debate here.)

Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, are they truly on the same side as Christ?

The same side as God. Christ is for christians, they have their own prophets and spiritual figures to aspire to.

If there was a holy war, would they fight with the Christians or against the Christians? Are they as “accepting” to us as we are to them? I doubt that,

First of all you talk about acceptance right after you bring up a “holy” war. And you have obviously formed opinions about people, many of who I’m sure you’ve never met. Do you know any buddhist priests or monks? Have you ever met a yogi or taoist mystic? Chances are you base your assumptions on what you’ve heard, and small samples of their religious texts. If I were to hand them random verses of the canon, do you think they could acuurately determine the meaning, implied or otherwise?

TNT:

Come now, “Major” would have to bypass Talmudic Judaism and Quranic Islamists

How so?

You manipulate what I say. Where did I ever judge half of six billion people as going to hell

It’s not just you, it’s the mentality of statements like this:

I concede that other religions contain bits of God’s Truth, however, other religions outside Catholicism also contain lies of the Evil One. Mixing lies with Truth is Satan’s specialty, for a person thinks that all of his faith is true, by nature

I just don’t see how this can be justified in contrast to your loving view of God. Only the people of your religion were shown the true path, and all others were given lies.

 

[Kristina_P]

AsStAnselmPrays:

No, I’m not saying to start a war with other religions, what’s the point of that. However, we must make sure that people follow the Church, and not other human-started religious sects.

I’m still a little confused as to how you plan to ensure this. I know that I personally have no control over another person’s mind, beliefs, or actions unless I coerce them in some way.
If, as I suspect, you’re not really suggesting that we attempt to mind-control or to violently coerce the whole of humanity, then the only alternative is to tolerate the beliefs of others, i.e., allow them to exist. This does not mean that we bow to their gods, compromise the Truth, or admit the validity of their false religions. It simply means that we recognize the right of another human being to make up his own mind. Tolerance also doesn’t mean complacency toward the error of our fellow man; we must do what we can to persuade him to believe the Truth. This means living our testimony, preaching the truth in love, and praying for lost souls. Never forget that your faith is a gift of God’s grace, not a product of your own intellect or moral superiority. You cannot judge those who have not received this gift.

 

[Kristina_P]

AsStAnselmPrays:

We cannot humor an atheist in a Catholic school.

Certainly not in the capacity of a World Religions teacher! How did I miss that this was in a Catholic school? I thought you were somehow shocked by the beliefs of a university professor! You should certainly make an appointment with this teacher to discuss your concerns, and bring your parents to add gravity to your arguments. I don’t really know how the Church could/would deal with this kind of thing, but if no one does something to correct his teaching, I think you and your parents have an obligation to inform the other parents what their children are being taught. They might think that they can trust this school to teach their children in an orthodox manner.
That said, you still can’t shoot him.

 

[TNT]

Wormwood:

…
All major religions DO preach that it is wrong to steal and murder and break your bonds.

TNT RESP:
Come now, “Major” would have to bypass Talmudic Judaism and Quranic Islamists

Wormwood inquiry:
TNT: How so?

Well, you got me there! If only I could remember who “stole” aka hijacked some planes out of Boston and used them for their own purpose…to MURDER people they did not even know and likely knew nothing of Islam.
WAIT, I searched the internet. It was QURANIC Islamists!

From a former Muslim : (now Hindu, I believe)
True Moslems follow to an immaculate perfection the edicts of Quran which teach and **encourage **brutality, barbarism, murder, rape, enslavement, Kafir butchery, stealing, looting, kidnapping, snatching Non-Moslem property and women, all in the name of their Glorious and Merciful Allah. With such a list of disgusting and revolting edicts embodied in the Quran and the strategies for achieving them, who needs these followers of the Revolting Quran, known fancily as the True Moslems. As a choice, Pseudo- Moslems are far far better than the True Moslems.

You see nothing wrong in Muhammad acting as a gangster and a highway robber when he attacks the merchant caravans of the Meccans stealing their goods and killing their guards or taking them as hostage them killand forcing their families to pay ransom?

 

[bear06]

I’ve got to agree with T on this one. The Quran is a little on the violent and murderous side if you don’t agree with it or if you are a woman. Thankfully, for once, the PC folks have gotten a hold of the Quran and are trying to change most of the interpretations. For once it would be nice if someone followed the PC crowd although it would be more preferable to just become Catholic! Unfortunately for us, however, some haven’t bought the peace and love version of the Quran and follow it verbatim.

 

[sherilo]

I believe that all true Christians who try to follow Jesus to the best of their ability,and with all their heart, will get to Heaven, regardless of their religion. However, some may need more cleansing or purification than others. What I don’t think we should do is bicker about it. If we have a the chance to evangelize, we should take it, keeping in mind our reaction should someone try to convert us from Catholicism. I believe mutual respect is the key, although so many do not practice that. Suppose we were all born into a different religion–Presbyterian, Baptist, Lutheran, etc., to devout parents who trained us up in the way we should go, and our faith sustained us. We loved Jesus and followed his teachings as they were explained to us, and adhered to Scripture, living right. There are many Catholics who don’t do that. There are many people of many Christian religions that don’t do that. I don’t know because I’m not dead yet, but I can only hope that God will see that those good people did the best they could with what they had, regardless of their religion.

Sherilo

 

[reen12]

Well said, sherilo.:yup:

I believe that all true Christians who try to follow Jesus to the best of their ability,and with all their heart, will get to Heaven, regardless of their religion. However, some may need more cleansing or purification than others. What I don’t think we should do is bicker about it. If we have a the chance to evangelize, we should take it, keeping in mind our reaction should someone try to convert us from Catholicism. I believe mutual respect is the key, although so many do not practice that. Suppose we were all born into a different religion–Presbyterian, Baptist, Lutheran, etc., to devout parents who trained us up in the way we should go, and our faith sustained us. We loved Jesus and followed his teachings as they were explained to us, and adhered to Scripture, living right. There are many Catholics who don’t do that. There are many people of many Christian religions that don’t do that. I don’t know because I’m not dead yet, but I can only hope that God will see that those good people did the best they could with what they had, regardless of their religion.

Best,
reen12

 

[Kristina_P]

bear06:

I’ve got to agree with T on this one. The Quran is a little on the violent and murderous side if you don’t agree with it or if you are a woman. Thankfully, for once, the PC folks have gotten a hold of the Quran and are trying to change most of the interpretations. For once it would be nice if someone followed the PC crowd although it would be more preferable to just become Catholic! Unfortunately for us, however, some haven’t bought the peace and love version of the Quran and follow it verbatim.

Okay, it has been a few years since I read the Quran, but I remember it being mostly “live and let live” as far as other religions go. I know that Mohammed didn’t exactly put that into practice, but the book itself encourages peace in most situations. The “Quranic” Muslims responsible for the terrorism today have to really twist the Quran to get it to condone their actions. And, don’t forget that there have been extremely violent Christians who twisted the Bible, too. Are other religions lacking in truth? Yes. Is it still possible for them to lead other people closer to God? Yes, unless that person rejects whatever truth God reveals to them. Catholics have the fullness of truth because of the grace of God, not because they’re better than everyone else.

 

[Contarini]

TNT:

Come now, “Major” would have to bypass Talmudic Judaism and Quranic Islamists…about 1/3 of the world’s religious.

That’s sheer bunk. You could just as well argue that it would have to bypass Catholicism, since Catholics have justified the killing of heretics and seizing their goods and have (at times) argued that it wasn’t wrong to break agreements made with unbelievers.

Edwin

 

[bear06]

Kristina P.:

Okay, it has been a few years since I read the Quran, but I remember it being mostly “live and let live” as far as other religions go. I know that Mohammed didn’t exactly put that into practice, but the book itself encourages peace in most situations. The “Quranic” Muslims responsible for the terrorism today have to really twist the Quran to get it to condone their actions. And, don’t forget that there have been extremely violent Christians who twisted the Bible, too. Are other religions lacking in truth? Yes. Is it still possible for them to lead other people closer to God? Yes, unless that person rejects whatever truth God reveals to them. Catholics have the fullness of truth because of the grace of God, not because they’re better than everyone else.

Uh, I’d read it again.

 

[Kristina_P]

bear06:

Uh, I’d read it again.

Hrm. I probably will sometime, if I can locate my translation. I do remember that it was very inconsistent on whether or not Christians and Jews were going to Heaven. And, I remember pretty reasonable laws on when to go to war. But, considering the inconsistencies on other religions, I could be forgetting the passages with inconsistencies on war and violence.

 

[reen12]

quote:Contarini

…it would have to bypass Catholicism, since Catholics have justified the killing of heretics and seizing their goods

May I assume that the English “priest hole’s” were
simply a decorative feature? And not a place where
priests had to slip into, for fear of being caught?

Edmond Campion, call your office…

Or that Margaret Clitherow was suffocated to death,
for her Catholic beliefs, by others who were
“enthusiastic” over their brand new faith?

ewtn.com/library/MARY/MARCLITH.htm

Still, I wouldn’t want to be called on the carpet
for the inexcusable act of pointing to fact.

Best wishes, :tiphat:

reen12

Trouble is, I read a book called Come Rack, Come Ruin
as a kid, and I’ve never looked at things in the same
ecumenical light, since.

 

[Fox]

Sounds like your teacher has a Mason way of thinking about religion, check his fingers.

 

[reen12]

The title of the book was Come Rack, Come Rope,

by Robert Hugh Benson. Had to look it up, it’s been

so many, many years since I read it.

Apparently, the book is available online at:

gutenberg.org/etext/15992

reen12

 

[Neithan]

There are really only four religions in the world:
Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Paganism.
The first is incomplete; the third is a corruption of the first and second; and the last one contains the whole myriad of indigenous human mythologies and philosophies.