You're putting down Christ if you attack the CC!

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I think people need to understand something here. Be very careful what you mean by “criticism”, because it seems to me that people are arguing over words, which of course is a bad thing to do. Now if people criticise the church, then that is all well and good, and should be encouraged so as to find any faults with the church, so that the church is always being improved. Incidentally, I think this is how Luther started out, with his theses. His criticism was indeed warranted at the time (tho I’m no history buff; this is just how it seems to me). HOWEVER, saying that the Pope is the anti-christ, and other similar verbal abuse against the church is a different thing. Without knowing the context of the priest’s monologue, I have a feeling that this is probably what he was on about. Does that make sense?
 
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cheddarsox:
That is cult thinking. When the church says that it is the truth and that anything else is an attack, not merely on you, but on Christ himself. CULT thinking. When the church says anything that it hasn’t already told you is true is the work of the devil. CULT thinking. When anytime you question, challenge, or speak out that the teachings don’t match your experience, and you are told you are the enemy and under the ruse of the devil. That is simply classic cult mind control.

You are being told that anything that doesn’t 100% agree with the church is the enemy and is attacking you. That is cult mind control. Or are you too far gone to see that?

You have free will…as long as it makes you do exactly what you are told too, if not, you are the enemy…you are the attacker. I’m sorry folks, that is CULT MIND CONTROL.

I don’t know if that is an official teaching of the church, but this priest is doing the church a huge disservice by speaking thusly. He is making the church sound like a cult. He is not supporting the church through this type of speech.

cheddar
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If we believe, as I do, that Our Lord founded a Church and said that it was His body then to attack that Church is to attack Christ.

We can only doubt that if we believe that all the churches are more or less equal. Since the numerous man made churches all teach different things about so many issues (sacraments, ministry, salvation, Godhead etc.) they cannot all be right. Jesus founded, established ONE Church and that Church, and only that Church, traces its origins back to Christ Himself. That Church is the one established by Christ, the one He said He would be with always and the one He said He would not allow Hell to prevail against. To attack that Church is to attack Christ.

That is not to deny the fact that other churches may contain parts of the truth and may have many Christian members. Nor does it mean that Catholics have any right to feel superior as individuals. Rather we are given a great treasure, the faith, that God has commanded us to tell the whole world about.
 
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ComradeAndrei:
The original statement stated that if you put down or deny the Catholic Church, you are putting down Jesus-which is true. This did not imply legitimate criticism was “anti-Catholic”.

Nor would the quote be offensive or meant to “put anyone down”. The Catholic Church is the only True Faith, granted that other Christians share in the unity of Catholicism through their Trinitarian baptism. This unity is, however, imperfect.
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But Jesus is not the possession of the CC - He is not her lap-dog, but her Lord 🙂​

He is not confined within, her like a prisoner - He cannot be confined to any created thing. ##
 
Our Holy Father Benedict XVI as Cardinal Ratzinger when asked about the scandal said: Anything run by man is subject to coruption ! Attacking,criticising, etc. as long as its the truth.Is not attacking Christ ! It is the duty of Catholics to root out corruption in the church.
 
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JOHNYJ:
Our Holy Father Benedict XVI as Cardinal Ratzinger when asked about the scandal said: Anything run by man is subject to coruption ! Attacking,criticising, etc. as long as its the truth.Is not attacking Christ ! It is the duty of Catholics to root out corruption in the church.
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Absolutely!

cheddar
 
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cheddarsox:
Absolutely!

cheddar
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If you mean criticising corruption of the faith, false teaching by those who should know better, bad leadership by bishops or priests, then I agree with you. If, however, you mean attacking the Catholic Church and its defined teachings, then I stand by what I said above.
 
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Writer:
I also like this list, but it gets a little confusing when you mix religions with the different denominations (and cults–at least in terms of beliefs, if not from a sociological standpoint regarding age of sect). Pentecostal, Baptist, and Catholic are all different traditions revolving around the same religion of Christianity.
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The Catholic Church is not merely one of many different forms of Christianity. The Catholic Church IS the ONE Church founded by Jesus Christ. Our wonderful Holy Father has warned us many times already against this plague that is modern relativism. All graces from God flow through His ONE Church, and if any heretic is saved, it is only through the great mercy of God, who allows these graces to be applied to those outside of his visible church.

If my reply sounds harsh, I apologize, but I fear that in our desire to be ecumenical and find common ground, we are watering down the true faith that has been given to us.

And while I am all for allowing everyone, Catholic or not, to express their opinion and ask questions, I think there should some limits to the amount of attacks and degradation of our faith that is done in such an uncharitable way by some. If I acted on a baptist forum the way Ric does here, I would have already been banned for proselytizing for that romanist, papist, whore church.

God bless you all!
 
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Ric:
No, Jesus started His Church, not the Roman Catholic church (which started in the 4th century). :tiphat:
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Ric, I see you report that you are an Evangelical Christian. It is logical that you are lacking in the Tradition, the History and the Biblical Truths belonging to the Holy Catholic Church. In fact your post tells me that you are biased.

Read Matthew 16: 18 -19. Jesus Christ Himself said to Simon (Kepha) Peter that He (Jesus) would build His (Jesus’) Church on Kepha, Petros or Peter. That cannot be denied. Then Peter went to Rome and after some time was crusified there. This was in the years between 48 and 62 AD.

His ( Jesus’) Church is the Roman Catholic Church. Jesus said He would always be with the Church. If He wasn’t with His Church it certainly would not have survived. You say you are a Christian, Ric, then that means you are one who protests the Holy Mother Church which is Christ’s Church - you are a Protestant.
 
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cheddarsox:
That is cult thinking. When the church says that it is the truth and that anything else is an attack, not merely on you, but on Christ himself. CULT thinking. When the church says anything that it hasn’t already told you is true is the work of the devil. CULT thinking. When anytime you question, challenge, or speak out that the teachings don’t match your experience, and you are told you are the enemy and under the ruse of the devil. That is simply classic cult mind control.

You are being told that anything that doesn’t 100% agree with the church is the enemy and is attacking you. That is cult mind control. Or are you too far gone to see that?

You have free will…as long as it makes you do exactly what you are told too, if not, you are the enemy…you are the attacker. I’m sorry folks, that is CULT MIND CONTROL.

I don’t know if that is an official teaching of the church, but this priest is doing the church a huge disservice by speaking thusly. He is making the church sound like a cult. He is not supporting the church through this type of speech.

cheddar
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Cheddar,

In Acts 9:4-5, when Jesus appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus and asked why he was persecuting members of His Church, did he say, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute my Church?”

No…here’s what He said…

He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” He said, “Who are you, sir?” The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting." The fact is that you can’t seperate Jesus from the Church. Father Angelus was right on the money (as he always is).

God Bless,
Gary
 
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Ric:
We are to test all things with Scripture! 👍
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I’m glad that you at least use the Bible, a book written, cannonized, declared inspired, organized, preserved, etc… and ALL by the Catholic Church by the end of the 4 Century A.D.

Of course, if Protestants keep trashing and dumping out books of Scrpture every 1,500 years then you can interprolate that the Protestants will have a Bible with ZERO books in it in about 15,400 years.:eek: Of couse if history repeats itself, then ALL current Protestant sects will be self destructed and extinct by then and only the Catholic Church will remain since it is the body of Christ and guided and protected by Him!

Besides, your fact of the Catholic Church being established in the 4th Century is, well BIZZARE! I like the Protestants that reformed history (just like they reformed Christs Word) to prove that the Catholic Church was founded in 606 A.D. by Pope Bonifice III. See this site for more Protestant reformed historical facts:

svic.net/kerux/origin_of_denominations.htm

See ya when you get back to earth.👋
 
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Malachi4U:
I’m glad that you at least use the Bible, a book written, cannonized, declared inspired, organized, preserved, etc… and ALL by the Catholic Church by the end of the 4 Century A.D.
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Ummmmmmm…

Not true!

God (through the Holy Spirit) wrote the Bible, not the Roman Catholic church!

Plus all of the all of the Old Testament and all of the New Testament were written long before the birth of the Roman Catholic church! :amen:
 
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Ric:
Ummmmmmm…

Not true!

God (through the Holy Spirit) wrote the Bible, not the Roman Catholic church!

Plus all of the all of the Old Testament and all of the New Testament were written long before the birth of the Roman Catholic church! :amen:
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Ric never defended his statement on the thread that I started in the Apologetics forum.
 
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Ric:
Ummmmmmm…

Not true!

God (through the Holy Spirit) wrote the Bible, not the Roman Catholic church!

Plus all of the all of the Old Testament and all of the New Testament were written long before the birth of the Roman Catholic church!
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Bunk. What did the Holy Spirit pen with His own “hand”? This is a completely unBiblical assertion, since the Bible itself says, " For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost. " (2nd Peter 1:21 Emphasis mine) In fact it says they “spoke”, not wrote, and the key word is “inspired”. That means that those who wrote wrote by inspiration and so God directly wrote NOTHING.

You can allege the late arrival of the Catholic Church, but unbiased history does not support you when within 10 years of the death of the last apostle, St. John. His close friend, disciple and bishop of Antioch, Ignatius wrote. "Let that be deemed a proper(18) Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

Looks like the followers of the apostles actually called the church by the name Catholic! Oh NO! :eek: And you can tell from the way he says it that he’s using it as the name, not a term that describes the church. So you can sit there and believe the stuff that somebody with an agenda told you or you can beileve the historic facts that are right under your nose and all the rest of the world.
 
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Eden:
Ric never defended his statement on the thread that I started in the Apologetics forum.
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Probably because it’s far easier to make unsubstantiated statements that are not true and then beat feet than to admit the truth and possibly have to become a Catholic.
 
Paris Blues:
…I was only saying what the preist said…
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What’s a “preist”? Can’t find it in my dictionary… Perhaps it’s a “Bushism”. Just curious…

Peace.
 
Ummmmmmm…
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Not true!
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God (through the Holy Spirit) wrote the Bible, not the Roman Catholic church!
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Plus all of the all of the Old Testament and all of the New Testament were written long before the birth of the Roman Catholic church!
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You won’t even back up your claims with anything resembling an arguement. You should really lay off the all the meaningless little cute quips or put up a rational arguement.

Also, concerning critizing the Church, I believe there are far too many cafeteria Catholic pew-warmer types out there that seem to think that they are more Catholic than the Church but know practically nothing about theology or doctrine and renegade theologians that whine and cry that the Church needs to liberalize or modernize. These types really need to get into line. That kind of “criticism” the Church can do without.
 
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CanonAlberic:
What’s a “preist”? Can’t find it in my dictionary… Perhaps it’s a “Bushism”. Just curious…

Peace.
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Be nice Canon… :rolleyes: the lady’s typing is no better than mine, I just preview and proof mine before I click that submit button. :rotfl:
Pax tecum,
 
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Ric:
Ummmmmmm…

Not true!

God (through the Holy Spirit) wrote the Bible, not the Roman Catholic church!

Plus all of the all of the Old Testament and all of the New Testament were written long before the birth of the Roman Catholic church! :amen:
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Here it is folks, evidence that Ric’s knowledge of history and the origin of the bible is severely limited. :tiphat:
 
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Eden:
Ric never defended his statement on the thread that I started in the Apologetics forum.
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And I’n not going to for two reasons…
  1. Last time I posted the truth in another forum on these boards the mods suspended me (truth hurts), so I stick to this forum (“Non-Roman Catholic Religions”).
  2. History is a true witness to it’s self (all sources that are not "Roman Catholic).
 
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