You're "Traditional" you just don't get it

[Cruikshank_s]

Ok here’s the thing:

I’ve got a progressive Catholic friend. We grew up together, and are much like brothers. Lately he’s been attending protestant services and those wackadoo falling in the spirit type prayer services. When he told me this, I did a complete double-take. I was I think understandably offended by his deliberate separation and asked him why on earth would he WANT to go. He was completely offended and said that I only object because I’m a close-minded spiritually violent “Traditional” Catholic. In a non-violent way I insisted that the services he’s attending are those of heretics, who deny the fullness of Truth, which you have full and complete access to in our church. His response was that using the term heretic was uncalled for and that they just don’t have access to the whole truth, but it’s ok because they are able to nourish his soul in ways that the Catholic Church can’t, he apparently needs a “wow factor” and no, the assertion that the true presence was all the wow he ought to need didn’t cut it.

Is there a charitable way to confront this? I’m worried about our friendship, because I refuse to stand around and say nothing. What does HMC teach about this?? Because I think his main defense is ecumenism, “he’s not doing anything wrong, he’s merely embracing his brothers in Christ, we all fall short of the Glory of God”

What would you say???

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I think you did the right thing. While his intentions are good, he runs the risk of causing scandal, especially if he is prancing around as if the differences are not serious (ie Protestants who chat with him will think it is no big deal to stay Protestant).
Heresy is no laughing matter, and it is sinful and misguided to deliberately overlook heresy for the sake of Unity.

He himself is in danger if he is not well formed in his own faith, and thus runs the high risk of being sucked in to a watered down Gospel and worse yet even spiritually poisoned by anti-Catholic rhetoric.

Don’t push him away or treat him bad, but stand your ground.

 

[Eucharisted]

Ok here’s the thing:

I’ve got a progressive Catholic friend. We grew up together, and are much like brothers. Lately he’s been attending protestant services and those wackadoo falling in the spirit type prayer services. When he told me this, I did a complete double-take. I was I think understandably offended by his deliberate separation and asked him why on earth would he WANT to go. He was completely offended and said that I only object because I’m a close-minded spiritually violent “Traditional” Catholic. In a non-violent way I insisted that the services he’s attending are those of heretics, who deny the fullness of Truth, which you have full and complete access to in our church. His response was that using the term heretic was uncalled for and that they just don’t have access to the whole truth, but it’s ok because they are able to nourish his soul in ways that the Catholic Church can’t, he apparently needs a “wow factor” and no, the assertion that the true presence was all the wow he ought to need didn’t cut it.

Is there a charitable way to confront this? I’m worried about our friendship, because I refuse to stand around and say nothing. What does HMC teach about this?? Because I think his main defense is ecumenism, “he’s not doing anything wrong, he’s merely embracing his brothers in Christ, we all fall short of the Glory of God”

What would you say???

I would remind him of the parable of the prodical son. This reminder would serve him and you, for he would realize - perhaps not right than - his mistake and you would find hope in the Lord.

 

[johnshark]

“spiritually violent” what does this mean?

 

[Cruikshank_s]

“spiritually violent” what does this mean?

He is of the mind that because I’m not one to bend, that it makes me callous. For instance, when our church started playing contemporary protestant music instead of the psalms during mass, I stood up to and told the music director that I thought it inappropriate to play such music in replacement of scripture. He thinks that my ideology is stiff and he thinks that my position on homosexuality and birth control and the liturgy are lacking in understanding and compassion. In other words, he’s of the mind that strict adherence to the HMC in things that are touchy is callous and whenever I vocalize opposition, he says it’s unchristian to be so sure of Truth. He basically thinks that traditionalists have an unloving image of God and that we are too strict, we are violent in that we don’t give way to anyone or anything that is wishywashy.

 

[Cruikshank_s]

(ie Protestants who chat with him will think it is no big deal to stay Protestant).

Amen, I tried my best to explain that very thing to him. I gave up on it out of frustration, I was afraid of saying something heated that would cause damage. But my main point was that when protestants and evangelicals and whatnot see him there, they realize that he’s a Catholic, and yet he finds the NEED to go to their services. They’ll see it as their separation being justified and really a good thing, because look the Catholic Church can’t even satisfy this guy. It’s “proof” that the Catholic church is failing, when it clearly isn’t.

 

[allan_frederick]

Dear Cruikshank_s;

I fully understand your frustration especially from someone that has been very close to you. Try to understand and analyze why your friend has felt that it was necessary to abandon his Catholic Faith. Sometimes its because there is something in our faith that he is running away from, sometimes its really that his faith community hasn’t done it for him. We must accept as Catholics that there are many inconsistencies in our parishes and places of worship which may have set him off. You need to find the root of the problem. I don’t think that accusing him of being a heretic is going to help your cause. Be gentle and understanding what he needs is a friend that will listen to him and show love and patience to him. Pray that the Holy Spirit may work through you to get to him. Don’t impose yourself or the Church on him. Let God’s mercy work through you and in Gods time he will eventually turnaround. Put it in Gods hands.

 

[survive]

One of the people who helped bring me into the Church and someone I went through RCIA with have both gone back to Pentecostalism. I miss them. They go back and forth but more slowly it seems. Maybe they’ll land here after all. Maybe your friend will too.
Violent? Unloving? Does he know that’s what New Agers say about all Christians? I don’t know how often someone has asked me out of nowhere, “Do you really believe all that stuff?” Trying to be diplomatic, I ask what they believe, and all but invariably the answer, given with a puffed chest and defiant gaze, as if this were a radical and controversial declaration, rather than a universal human value, is, “I believe in love.” Forget trying to get a word in edgewise after that. I just keep saying, “So do I. God is love.” I hope it gets through subliminally through the walls they make out of their own voices. And I walk on.
That might be all you can do. What people can’t hear, they can’t hear. You told him how you feel.