Youth sports and when is it excessive

[Cat]

This, provided they don’t suffer academically…just as the bookworm can be a bookworm, provided that they don’t neglect getting enough exercise.

Some kids have loads of energy for this kind of thing–whether hours of piano a day or hours on the rink or just going out and shooting hoops every spare minute. They eat it up, and they ask for more. For instance, the high schooler and Olympian Missy Franklin surely put in hours in the pool that would be abusive if she were forced to do it. She’d find it a punishment if she weren’t allowed to pursue her goals, though!

Others have the goals, but don’t have the energy level or the ability to keep all the balls in the air. There has to be a certain amount of playing it by ear. The parent has to judge whether their student-athlete is managing their load or not. It’s not a one-size-fits-all proposition.

This is true to a certain extent.

Our city was part of a study, and the results were covered this week in our newspaper–I’m so sorry, but I can’t find a link for you.

The question that the study attempted to answer was whether high school athletes should be cut from the team if they don’t achieve a “C” average.

The conclusion of the study is that for many students (especially those from poor families), high school sports and especially the coaching staff provide them with a disciplined structure and framework that they do not receive in their homes, and if they are cut from the team for academic reasons, their grades slip even lower, they lose touch with the school, and eventually drop out.

The study showed that most high school athletes actually have BETTER grades than those students of comparable family background and income who do NOT participate in high school sports. They are less likely to get involved with gangs or to take drugs. And they are more likely to have success after high school in finding a job, joining the military, or seeking higher education or training.

So what our city will be doing is allowing all students to play as long as they pass four academic classes, and receive 5 tutoring sessions a week.

I think this is sensible. I think that there are many people who are not “smart” at academics, but they are very capable in other areas, and sports can help these kids stay in school and discover what their calling is. Once they drop out of school, they have a very hard time staying drug-free and staying out of trouble.

Darn, I wish I could find that article–it was fascinating.

 

[Wackotrad]

I think that youth sports get excessive when they interfere with proper meals and adequate sleep. My husband and I angered our son’s baseball coach last summer when we refused to allow him to play in an evening game that was two hours away from our house. At best he would have returned home at midnight, and we decided that was just completely inappropriate for a 9-year-old, even in the summer.

I also think things get excessive when they interfere with the well being of the rest of the family, especially other children. Our son really wanted to play travel baseball, but we told him that there are three other people in our house and that half of the year was not going to revolve around him and his baseball team.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The excessive aspect honestly I don’t see as any different today. What I do see on the far end is parents much to verbal and critical of the system/coaching today. To cheer for the team, son/daughter is one thing. To tell the coach how to coach is completely unacceptable.

Church/School is the priority [PERIOD]. Its that simple. So time management is a must, if they can’t do this and Church/school in any way suffers, then you need to become more involved in the process. And correctly and productively I might add.

I know of no coach who would deny student athletes from Sunday worship. Thats not to say you won’t practice on Sunday.

 

[EasterJoy]

This is true to a certain extent.

Our city was part of a study, and the results were covered this week in our newspaper–I’m so sorry, but I can’t find a link for you.

The question that the study attempted to answer was whether high school athletes should be cut from the team if they don’t achieve a “C” average.

The conclusion of the study is that for many students (especially those from poor families), high school sports and especially the coaching staff provide them with a disciplined structure and framework that they do not receive in their homes, and if they are cut from the team for academic reasons, their grades slip even lower, they lose touch with the school, and eventually drop out.

The study showed that most high school athletes actually have BETTER grades than those students of comparable family background and income who do NOT participate in high school sports. They are less likely to get involved with gangs or to take drugs. And they are more likely to have success after high school in finding a job, joining the military, or seeking higher education or training.

So what our city will be doing is allowing all students to play as long as they pass four academic classes, and receive 5 tutoring sessions a week.

I think this is sensible. I think that there are many people who are not “smart” at academics, but they are very capable in other areas, and sports can help these kids stay in school and discover what their calling is. Once they drop out of school, they have a very hard time staying drug-free and staying out of trouble.

Darn, I wish I could find that article–it was fascinating.

I saw that study. Some athletes are not academically gifted. I like your city’s approach: that is, if a student-athlete does not achieve a certain number of passed classes, then they have to be able to document that they have devoted substantial effort towards doing so. Otherwise, you’re going to have students who don’t want to take hard classes (like languages) because they’re too afraid of not making the grade. If they’re working hard in their classes, though, then I’m willing to say they’ve earned the opportunity to play if they want to. (I don’t think it will be lost on the best athletes that failing at classes won’t get them a college scholarship, because the colleges are rightfully under pressure to get their athletes successfully to graduation while in a program that amounts to a full-time job.)

 

[robwar]

I think that youth sports get excessive when they interfere with proper meals and adequate sleep. My husband and I angered our son’s baseball coach last summer when we refused to allow him to play in an evening game that was two hours away from our house. At best he would have returned home at midnight, and we decided that was just completely inappropriate for a 9-year-old, even in the summer.

I also think things get excessive when they interfere with the well being of the rest of the family, especially other children. Our son really wanted to play travel baseball, but we told him that there are three other people in our house and that half of the year was not going to revolve around him and his baseball team.

A one time late night in the summer is not really excessive. I am sure if his team needed and was counting on him missing would upset the coach and I am pretty sure that he would have slept in the car on the way home. If your son has talent and an opportunity to do travel baseball, look at the schedule and even try it for a year and see if how it goes. It is just a thought.

 

[robwar]

This, provided they don’t suffer academically…just as the bookworm can be a bookworm, provided that they don’t neglect getting enough exercise.

Some kids have loads of energy for this kind of thing–whether hours of piano a day or hours on the rink or just going out and shooting hoops every spare minute. They eat it up, and they ask for more. For instance, the high schooler and Olympian Missy Franklin surely put in hours in the pool that would be abusive if she were forced to do it. She’d find it a punishment if she weren’t allowed to pursue her goals, though!

Others have the goals, but don’t have the energy level or the ability to keep all the balls in the air. There has to be a certain amount of playing it by ear. The parent has to judge whether their student-athlete is managing their load or not. It’s not a one-size-fits-all proposition.

Most of the top athletes I have known and read about have very good grades. It is the discipline and time management that help them achieve in both areas.

 

[robwar]

The excessive aspect honestly I don’t see as any different today. What I do see on the far end is parents much to verbal and critical of the system/coaching today. To cheer for the team, son/daughter is one thing. To tell the coach how to coach is completely unacceptable.

Church/School is the priority [PERIOD]. Its that simple. So time management is a must, if they can’t do this and Church/school in any way suffers, then you need to become more involved in the process. And correctly and productively I might add.

I know of no coach who would deny student athletes from Sunday worship. Thats not to say you won’t practice on Sunday.

Any of the coaching or yelling from the side usually occurs at the entry level of the sports or in recreation teams where you mostly likely have volunteer parent coaches and people forget themselves. My daughter last year subbed in on a ASYO team a couple times. Those parents were the loudest yellers when compared to the travel soccer parents who realize that your child needs to listen to the coach not the parent. They were constantly yelling at their children on how to play. I also have not seen any of these types of behaviors in high school sports or on most travel teams where you have more professional coaching.

 

[EasterJoy]

Most of the top athletes I have known and read about have very good grades. It is the discipline and time management that help them achieve in both areas.

To rip off Yogi Berra, too: Athletics 90% mental, the other half is physical.

Seriously, though, having a quick mind and a “can do” attitude helps a lot in both school and in sports, particularly in the team sports. The confidence of achieving (and, conversely, the pessimism that can come out of having failed to achieve) can carry over, as well, back and forth from the classroom to the field.

 

[EasterJoy]

A one time late night in the summer is not really excessive. I am sure if his team needed and was counting on him missing would upset the coach and I am pretty sure that he would have slept in the car on the way home. If your son has talent and an opportunity to do travel baseball, look at the schedule and even try it for a year and see if how it goes. It is just a thought.

Still, the parent is the authority on whether their athlete is going to do well under circumstances like that. There are many nine-year-olds who wilt after eight o’clock, who can’t sleep in a car, and who don’t bounce back from staying up past ten for a long time. If the kid is going to hate the whole experience and didn’t sign up for a certain extreme, then it is better to avoid it, even once. The parent has to decide based on the kid they actually have.

I do think it is best to be upfront with the coaches about what prior commitments and protective boundaries you are going to insist upon when the season starts, though, so the coach is less likely to get rude suprises he didn’t foresee. That is only fair. It may even allow your family to choose a coach who is a better fit, while that can still be done, and that will make everyone happier: the coach, your family, and the other team families with very different expectations.

 

[Cat]

Still, the parent is the authority on whether their athlete is going to do well under circumstances like that. There are many nine-year-olds who wilt after eight o’clock, who can’t sleep in a car, and who don’t bounce back from staying up past ten for a long time. If the kid is going to hate the whole experience and didn’t sign up for a certain extreme, then it is better to avoid it, even once. The parent has to decide based on the kid they actually have.

I do think it is best to be upfront with the coaches about what prior commitments and protective boundaries you are going to insist upon when the season starts, though, so the coach is less likely to get rude suprises he didn’t foresee. That is only fair. It may even allow your family to choose a coach who is a better fit, while that can still be done, and that will make everyone happier: the coach, your family, and the other team families with very different expectations.

Yes, I definitely agree with this. I’m one of those people that just can’t go without sleep, and I don’t sleep well sitting up or in a moving vehicle, or with other people around. I actually get sick to my stomach. This happened to me when I was a child, too. (Slumber parties were not fun for me.) And yes, it takes me several days to bounce back from a few nights of bad sleep.

And I agree totally about “fit.” Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned “recreational” sports. This can be a really great option for families who want to do a sport, but don’t want to commit their bodies, bank accounts, and all their waking and sleeping hours to that sport.

E.g., in our city, we have several options for hockey. The Hockey Club is the place for those who eat, sleep, and breathe hockey, and this is definitely a good fit for a child/teen who thrives when they are challenged to the max and punished when they don’t perform well. The in-house hockey program is a better fit for a “renaissance child/teen” who has a lot of different activities and can’t devote the time or heart to competitive hockey. And there are the pick-up games, in which you just show up with your skates and stick, and get put on a team for the evening, play a game, and then go home! Finally there is “the lagoon,” which is a real lagoon downtown that freezes over in the really cold weather, and hockey players show up and play whoever is around. Lots of good action in the bitter cold–some would say this is “pure hockey.” (There is also a family in our city that has turned their back yard into a real hockey rink, and families gather there all winter long to play hockey all evening into the night. That family lives for winter! Really fun.)

Many people have no idea that there are two figure skating organizations in the United States. There’s United States Figure Skating, headquartered in Colo Springs, Colorado–this is the skating you see on TV. US Fig. Skating is the governing body of the sport, and the U.S. contingency of the International Skating Union and the U.S. representative to the International Olympic Committee. This is THE serious organization for THE serious figure skater! Although the organization has its “fun” side, it is basically a competitive organization for those who are committed to the sport.

The other organization is the Ice Skating Institute (ISI, or sometimes you’ll see it as ISIA), headquartered in Dallas, TX. This is the recreational figure skating organization, and for those who want to skate, but want to do other things as well, the ISI is a great fit.

(In case you’re wondering, our family did/does BOTH organizations! When I say we’re skating fanatics, I’m not kidding!)

There are also several disciplines of figure skating, and some are cheaper than others! Years ago I put together a comparison study and demonstrated that synchronized skating is substantially cheaper than singles skating.

I think that many sports have a competitive and a recreational version, and it makes sense to look for the version that is best for your children and your family (and your wallet!).

 

[DarkLight]

The other issue I’ve seen is respect for the health of children’s bodies. I have had friends in gymnastics or dance - it is very worrying the levels to which they push still-growing children. There are things that they can do but shouldn’t, because it is likely to hurt them.

 

[robwar]

The other issue I’ve seen is respect for the health of children’s bodies. I have had friends in gymnastics or dance - it is very worrying the levels to which they push still-growing children. There are things that they can do but shouldn’t, because it is likely to hurt them.

i have talked with several people who have their girls in ballet and before they can even do point ballet, they do take x-rays of the feet and ankles to see if they are able to do it yet.
They have to be old enough as well as have a certain development in the feet and ankles.
I know that point ballet can be hard on the feet and ankles. Injuries can happen in any sport, i can’t really comment on gymnastics.

 

[robwar]

Still, the parent is the authority on whether their athlete is going to do well under circumstances like that. There are many nine-year-olds who wilt after eight o’clock, who can’t sleep in a car, and who don’t bounce back from staying up past ten for a long time. If the kid is going to hate the whole experience and didn’t sign up for a certain extreme, then it is better to avoid it, even once. The parent has to decide based on the kid they actually have.

I do think it is best to be upfront with the coaches about what prior commitments and protective boundaries you are going to insist upon when the season starts, though, so the coach is less likely to get rude suprises he didn’t foresee. That is only fair. It may even allow your family to choose a coach who is a better fit, while that can still be done, and that will make everyone happier: the coach, your family, and the other team families with very different expectations.

Scheduling for sports is not done by individual coaches but done by the league. A part of the commitment to sports no matter what kind it is is that you will do to the best of your ability make it to practices and games. To approach any coach and I think that we are talking about beginning leagues here and tell him that you are not doing this or that, you would be passed over for someone that can commit. They are not going to be interested in what other commitments you have or think you have and then schedule the sport around your other commitments. If every parent did this in on every team and in every league, there would be no team sports at all. One must understand that sport schedules do change in a season. Games get cancelled and rescheduled all the time. And in high school, this sort of attitude and thinking will get your child no where real fast. Scheduling is done based on many factors and availablity of one player isn’t one of them.

I have one 9 year old and have survived to others and honestly they did not wilt when it came around to 8pm. In fact, I don’t know or have not known any other 9 year old that does wilt at 8pm. That I am sure is more unusual than the norm.

 

[EasterJoy]

Scheduling for sports is not done by individual coaches but done by the league. A part of the commitment to sports no matter what kind it is is that you will do to the best of your ability make it to practices and games. To approach any coach and I think that we are talking about beginning leagues here and tell him that you are not doing this or that, you would be passed over for someone that can commit. They are not going to be interested in what other commitments you have or think you have and then schedule the sport around your other commitments. If every parent did this in on every team and in every league, there would be no team sports at all. One must understand that sport schedules do change in a season. Games get cancelled and rescheduled all the time. And in high school, this sort of attitude and thinking will get your child no where real fast. Scheduling is done based on many factors and availablity of one player isn’t one of them.

I have one 9 year old and have survived to others and honestly they did not wilt when it came around to 8pm. In fact, I don’t know or have not known any other 9 year old that does wilt at 8pm. That I am sure is more unusual than the norm.

Well, maybe you also didn’t have a nine-year-old who got himself out of bed without an alarm every day at 6 am…and on some days, only because his parents forbid him to get out at 5:30. People have different internal clocks (although these things do tend to run in families). If it isn’t the playoffs, I don’t know what a nine-year-old would be doing at a baseball tournament two hours from his bed at nine or ten at night. What is that, fourth or fifth grade? Who’s talking about a high school level commitment for a kid who is in fourth or fifth grade? Don’t get me wrong–there are nine year olds who could do it every night without a problem. Maybe most could, and would want to. Great for them, let them play! There are some, though, for whom it would be a very bad idea. At nine years old, it won’t kill a team for the parents to be given this kind of decision. Besides, if the kid is going to be a mess, the team is better off not having to play him. It is sometimes required for all players on the bench to put in a minimum appearance, or to be counted as an out every time they come up. So Little Mr. Morning Person, starting pitcher that the team can’t do without, isn’t there to uncharacteristically walk three batters, hit a fourth, commit several errors in the field during other innings, and then strike out or hit into a double play every at bat, racking up his most painful experience ever on a baseball field…this is a loss to the team?

As for scheduling and leagues, our kids were scandalized to find that the local CYO sports teams scheduled weekend events to start before the earliest Sunday morning Masses at most local parishes are over, while the local Little League (run by Protestants, but including people who never go to church), never had a Sunday game before noon. In our kids’ last league, too, the coaches did schedule the tournaments for their own teams (excepting the playoffs, of course) and they did it by taking polls of whether they’d have a full roster on the weekend they wanted. There is no point in putting up the tournament fee and then having to forfeit because the families are doing other things.

I hope you don’t think we were implying by telling the coaches about prior commitments that we thought the show couldn’t go on without us or that the team schedule ought to revolve around us! That would be too much!! We were telling the coach about unavoidable absences, including some that had to be scheduled before we had any way of knowing what the baseball schedule would be. I mean to say that our kids’ coaches knew the day that our kids would be missing their one or maybe two games or practices of the entire season from the very first team meeting. When the kids had to miss a practice, he knew they really had to miss it. Twice, the coach sent them home with “homework”. We made it clear that there would be no avoidable absences, because we consider the commitment to the team to be a real commitment. No surprises, always there when they say they will be, always tell you two or three months ahead when they can’t…coaches actually like that.

It is worth saying, though, that these prior commitments we had were very few, which is one reason why every coach has been OK with it. (After all, we did know that baseball season was coming up!) One was an evening school event that we could not get out of; others have been when our kids were scheduled to be altar servers for Triduum (different year). Even with our excused absences, we are outstanding about always being there on time for everything else. Based on being a scorekeeper and judging by the number of times a player is scratched from the line-up or we’re told by the other team he’s there at the end of the line-up provisionally, in case he does show up, I’d say most teams have a player missing at game time about half the time. Our kids are way ahead on that game.

PS Our parish had an altar server who was scheduled for a Triduum Mass during baseball season; the schedule was done before the baseball schedule was published. The coach at his public high school, a school in the largest size bracket that had won state championships in recent memory, was entirely OK with excusing him for that reason. He would have been understandably miffed if the player had not told him about it and asked if he’d have to find a substitute at church, though. Again: Coaches like to know.

 

[Cat]

Usually youth sports organizations, leagues, clubs, etc. pass a “Conflict Sheet” around at the beginning of the season. I think that any sensible coach and team recognizes that children and teenagers have conflicts that they cannot avoid because these events (e.g., Confirmation classes, family reunions, various school events, etc.) are part of every normal American child’s growing-up.

The coaches generally cannot schedule their season, especially the games or competitions, around all the conflicts, but they can at least use the conflict sheet to plan their practices and also set the competition rosters.

My daughter coaches figure skating (synchro), and she would rather know far in advance that a child cannot make a practice or competition because of an unavoidable conflict instead of having a child’s parent call at the last minute and say that the child can’t make it. Also, if she and her co-coach see that many team members will be missing because of some all-school event in their city, they can cancel that practice and re-schedule it for a time when there isn’t a big conflict. In ice skating, this is very important, because ice is sold by the hour, and if the ice isn’t used, it’s expensive (around $200 or more per hour at most rinks, and more in the big cities).

Here’s the deal, though–if a child or teen is on an “elite” team, then the parents must be prepared to give up some control. When teams represent the United States overseas, or when teams are in contention for a National title that will qualify them for the Olympics, or for the World Championship in their sport–IMO, that’s when parents have to make the decision–are we willing to make sacrifices for this?

Now I don’t think any child or teen should sacrifice the Mass if they are Catholic, but there are usually provisions made for religious practices. (E.g., the chaperones will take any teens or children to Mass at a time that doesn’t conflict with the practice or competition schedule).

And I don’t think that any child or teen should sacrifice their education. I don’t see anything wrong with sacrificing a straight-A report card–big hairy deal. Nowadays, most colleges would be more impressed with the elite team/international competition experiences than with an “A” in high school calculus, especially if the teen is well-spoken and readily shares these experiences and describes the benefits of their athletic competitions when asked.

But I think that families with an athlete on an elite team should be prepared to sacrifice family events (reschedule), eat on the run (not at a cozy dinner table), spend a lot of money, get up very early, stay up very late, and do a lot of driving and travelling.

Speaking as a parent of two synchro skaters who did belong to an elite team, we would do it all again. It was wonderful. That’s what my novels are all about (see my signature).

In fact, my younger daughter IS trying to do it all again by coaching with a team organization that is committed to someday climbing up to the elite level. They have a chance at it this year–I hope they make it. It’s been eight years of hard work. My younger daughter wants so much to have her teams experience all the wonderful things she experienced as a young skater on the best Junior team in the country.

 

[robwar]

As Op, please keep posts short and to the point. An indepth post about sleep patterns is off topic. Yes, I have had boys in CYO sports and they have scheduled on Sunday. In fact, most of the games (this is 5-8th grade) are on the weekends. This is most likely due to younger ages and to avoid having games after school and during the week nights to avoid playing games too late into the night. You can’t have it both ways. People get mad because of Sunday games yet there are those who are upset about their kids not getting to bed on time during the week.

 

[Cat]

As Op, please keep posts short and to the point. An indepth post about sleep patterns is off topic. Yes, I have had boys in CYO sports and they have scheduled on Sunday. In fact, most of the games (this is 5-8th grade) are on the weekends. This is most likely due to younger ages and to avoid having games after school and during the week nights to avoid playing games too late into the night. You can’t have it both ways. People get mad because of Sunday games yet there are those who are upset about their kids not getting to bed on time during the week.

It sounds to me like you already have made up your mind about youth sports and excesses. Perhaps you would care to share your conclusions.

Short posts? Sometimes it takes more than a few words to adequately develop a good point and present facts and anecdotes that support that point.

A good time to read long online forum posts is during the “down times” of the games/competitions/practices.

 

[robwar]

This is in response to Cat. We as a family have had a wonder experience with sports which has ranged from community, recreation, CYO, high school varsity and travel. I have seen many many benefits in all my children. They have gain confidence, skills, friendship discipline, commitment, fortitute etc. I agree that all sports does not have to be team at all and travel sports which is more of a commitment does eliminate other options to do other things. Not everyone is athletic. My oldest son is not sports inclined but we put him in bowling and when he received his varsity letter his freshman year, you would have thought he won the lottery. It gave him a sense of accomplishment. I would rather watch my kids play than watch overdone millionairs play in professional sports. The only issues I have seen in others is overcommitment in doing too many things. This can apply not just to sports. I think as a society we tend to over commit our kids and ourselves. I’ve seen kids be on more than one team and what happen is that everyong is exhaused and burned out in the end. I’ve also seen kids not just in sports but try to juggle other things as well such as dance lessons, scouting etc on top of it. It is irritating when your son is on the bowling team (4) and half the team can’t make it because they had a scouting retreat that weekend and now it is just 2 and you end up losing because of their other activity. I appreciate all of the responses and views and opinions shared.

 

[luckycross26]

i played alot of youth sports when i was a kid. i think the general rule was one sport a season. games were never on a sunday, though that changed when i became an adult.

i played on both the JV and Varsity hockey team in high school. I was also one of the only females on the team. All the moms and coach, for obvious reasons, made sure the girls got separate locker rooms. However, there were times we had to share one due to a smaller arena. Our practices were 11pm-12AM on a school night twice a week, plus games on wednesdays/thursdays/fridays. By the time i was a senior, i was on 4 teams and skating 6 days a week, about 4 hours a day. Plus assitant coach on my little brother’s youth hockey games.Sometimes, I wish my mom had stepped in and said " take a break!"

i don’t have kids right now, but i defintely would enforce some rules. Travel/Competitive sports are extremely expensive. If i had to spend alot of time paying money, fundraisers, going to games/practices, you bet i’d make sure school is important! people are so focused on making sure their kid is the “next big thing”