You've Never Heard This Question Before! (Candles)

[ChurchTorch]

My parish’s tabernacle is located outside of the sanctuary. It’s probably a 20-30 foot walk to repose the Blessed Sacrament ,all of it visible by the faithful. Is it OK to:

1. Have an acolyte with a candle-torch lead the priest with the ciborium to the tabernacle?
2. The acolytes are having trouble opening the gate to the niche where the tabernacle is located and then opening the tabernacle (so they priest does not have to set the ciborium down) WHILE dealing the the candle-torches. Would it be permissible for them to carry a bugia candle holder than can be momentarily set-down as needed? I this context it would only be a generic candle holder and not a bishop’s bugia. Thanks.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

My parish’s tabernacle is located outside of the sanctuary. It’s probably a 20-30 foot walk to repose the Blessed Sacrament ,all of it visible by the faithful. Is it OK to:

1. Have an acolyte with a candle-torch lead the priest with the ciborium to the tabernacle?
2. The acolytes are having trouble opening the gate to the niche where the tabernacle is located and then opening the tabernacle (so they priest does not have to set the ciborium down) WHILE dealing the the candle-torches. Would it be permissible for them to carry a bugia candle holder than can be momentarily set-down as needed? I this context it would only be a generic candle holder and not a bishop’s bugia. Thanks.

Have an additional server open the gate? However when do you do this since the priest/celebrant is NOT supposed t leave the sanctuary during the celebration of the Mass.

 

[Spirithound]

Have an additional server open the gate? However when do you do this since the priest/celebrant is NOT supposed t leave the sanctuary during the celebration of the Mass.

Who should reserve the Blessed Sacrament then? Lay people are not supposed to open the tabernacle unless a priest is not present.

And to the OP,

1. Yes
2. Yes, since the candle-bearers are option for this action, it can be as the priest wishes.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Who should reserve the Blessed Sacrament then? Lay people are not supposed to open the tabernacle unless a priest is not present.

And to the OP,

1. Yes
2. Yes, since the candle-bearers are option for this action, it can be as the priest wishes.

I believe that the rules are saying that the Blessed sacrament should be placed in a tabernacle in the sanctuary until Mass has ended and then transfered to an adoration chapel later. It is the priest pr deacon who should do this. Both removing and replacing the Blessed Sacrament when additional Hosts are needed from the tabernacle during Mass. You do not find (that i’m aware of) any mention of a procession with the Blessed Sacrament after Holy Communion within Mass in the GIRM?

 

[ChurchTorch]

I believe that the rules are saying that the Blessed sacrament should be placed in a tabernacle in the sanctuary until Mass has ended and then transfered to an adoration chapel later. It is the priest pr deacon who should do this. Both removing and replacing the Blessed Sacrament when additional Hosts are needed from the tabernacle during Mass. You do not find (that i’m aware of) any mention of a procession with the Blessed Sacrament after Holy Communion within Mass in the GIRM?

Where? I have NEVER seen such a rule. Not ever.

The priest certainly leaves the sanctuary (to the nave) to distribute communion. There is no rule that says he cannot walk 20-30 feet to where the tabernacle is located.

It would also take a fairly skewed misinterpretation of the GIRM to suggest a layperson cannot repose the Blessed Sacrament in the tabernacle.

I think the candle is important though. Very symbolic. Great sign value.

 

[corsair]

and after all of this discussion. this illustrates exactly why I prefer to attend the EF. There is no debate.

 

[ChurchTorch]

and after all of this discussion. this illustrates exactly why I prefer to attend the EF. There is no debate.

Nor is there one here. Someone brought-up a red herring. They are wrong.

With regard to my actual question: when the EF is celebrated at my parish, the priest leaves the sanctuary just as he does with the OF. Debate? No debate.

So take your EF certitude and keep it to yourself. It has no business in this thread.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Where? I have NEVER seen such a rule. Not ever.

The priest certainly leaves the sanctuary (to the nave) to distribute communion. There is no rule that says he cannot walk 20-30 feet to where the tabernacle is located.

It would also take a fairly skewed misinterpretation of the GIRM to suggest a layperson cannot repose the Blessed Sacrament in the tabernacle.

I think the candle is important though. Very symbolic. Great sign value.

The celebrant is not to leave the sanctuary during the Mass. He does not leave the sanctuary to distribute Holy Communion or at least should not. A lay person can remove or replace the Blessed Sacrament when the priest is impeded due to health or physical ability.

 

[ChurchTorch]

The celebrant is not to leave the sanctuary during the Mass. He does not leave the sanctuary to distribute Holy Communion or at least should not. A lay person can remove or replace the Blessed Sacrament when the priest is impeded due to health or physical ability.

You are mistaken. If you think otherwise, please show me Church documents supporting your point.

A priest may certainly leave the sanctuary (elevated area he stands upon to celebrate the Mass where the altar is located) to distribute communion. The faithful congregate in the nave and they certainly don’t enter the sanctuary in most cases to receive communion.

You may be defining the nave as the sanctuary (which is common in Protestantism and Orthodoxy) and the sanctuary as the “altar” which would cause you confusion.

There is nothing from the Church that says the priest cannot leave the sanctuary. There is nothing that would even keep the priest from reposing the Blessed Sacrament in a discrete, adjacent chapel.

There is also certainly nothing definitive that says a layperson can only repose the Blessed Sacrament if the priest is “impeded due to health or physical ability.” Reaching that conclusion would require an incorrect interpretation of Church documents.

 

[SenorSalsa]

The best solution I can think of are

1. to have the Eucharist escorted by one Torch and one empty handed server.
2. Without knowing your church’s torch’s if the issue is that the server’s have neither hand free, and that one free hand would be able to open the gate and tabernacle, then you could have the Torch-bearer and Thurifer (if you have one) escort the Eucharist, in which case, the Thurifer could open all necessary things.

3)It is tough to tell from your post whether one or two candles are going with the priest, if the case is that there are two, Perhaps one could hold both torches while the other opens the gate.

1. Maybe an Usher could open the door, although that doesn’t solve the Tabernacle problem, I really think the priest should be the one opening it (although I have this thing about laypeople touching sacred vessels and items in general, so I might be biased)

Additionally, if it is two torches, I would not send a third server (you don’t want to look like a mass exodus) to implement either of my first 2 solutions, just send one and the empty handed server or thurifer.

In the end it doesn’t matter as long as it is reverent and unnoticeable (a server’s 2nd and 3rd most important jobs, the first being whatever the priest needs done on the fly)

However, to me, candle holders seem unnecessary for such a short task.

Just as a note, at the church I served at, we had only a thurifer escort the Priest, who was able to open the Tabernacle one handed, and therefore did not need to put down the ciborium.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

You are mistaken. If you think otherwise, please show me Church documents supporting your point.

A priest may certainly leave the sanctuary (elevated area he stands upon to celebrate the Mass where the altar is located) to distribute communion. The faithful congregate in the nave and they certainly don’t enter the sanctuary in most cases to receive communion.

You may be defining the nave as the sanctuary (which is common in Protestantism and Orthodoxy) and the sanctuary as the “altar” which would cause you confusion.

There is nothing from the Church that says the priest cannot leave the sanctuary. There is nothing that would even keep the priest from reposing the Blessed Sacrament in a discrete, adjacent chapel.

There is also certainly nothing definitive that says a layperson can only repose the Blessed Sacrament if the priest is “impeded due to health or physical ability.” Reaching that conclusion would require an incorrect interpretation of Church documents.

The celebrant should not leave the sanctuary to distribute Holy Communion, other assisting ministers can if necessary. He should not leave the sanctuary for the Sign of Peace either, from Redemptionis Sacramentum #72. I personally do not find anything in the GIRM hinting at any type of Eucharistic procession out of the main church to an adoration chapel after Holy Communion. It just does not anticipate this happening within the celebration of the Mass. It just calls for a period of silent prayer and reflection.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

This is an issue that the OP’s priest should be able to solve on his own.

 

[Dicerning]

There is nothing from the Church that says the priest cannot leave the sanctuary. There is nothing that would even keep the priest from reposing the Blessed Sacrament in a discrete, adjacent chapel.

There is also certainly nothing definitive that says a layperson can only repose the Blessed Sacrament if the priest is “impeded due to health or physical ability.” Reaching that conclusion would require an incorrect interpretation of Church documents.

Redemptionis Sacramentum #72. And GIRM #154… Case Closed.

 

[SenorSalsa]

Redemptionis Sacramentum #72. And GIRM #154… Case Closed.

But this being the case, how is the case where the tabernacle is outside of the sanctuary to be handled?

Edit: I realize that ideally the Tabernacle should be on the Altar, but it should be acknowledged that this is neither absolutely required, or the case in many churches. I do not want a rant about how the Tabernacle SHOULD be on the Altar, I agree, but that isn’t the point here. The question is in reality, how should it be handled.

 

[ChurchTorch]

The celebrant should not leave the sanctuary to distribute Holy Communion, other assisting ministers can if necessary. He should not leave the sanctuary for the Sign of Peace either, from Redemptionis Sacramentum #72. I personally do not find anything in the GIRM hinting at any type of Eucharistic procession out of the main church to an adoration chapel after Holy Communion. It just does not anticipate this happening within the celebration of the Mass. It just calls for a period of silent prayer and reflection.

Please prove your assertion! 90+% of the Catholic churches I have been in REQUIRE the priest to leave the sanctuary to distribute communion. They do so at the National Shrine and at Papal Masses. More importantly though, there is absolutely nothing from the Church that prohibits a priest from entering into the nave to distribute communion. I challenge you to prove otherwise!

RS #72 does not apply to my question. I have also NEVER heard anyone other than you suggest a second tabernacle be kept in the sanctuary. It’s wrong to have two tabernacles in the same “room.”. You’ll not I clearly said the tabernacle is in the same “room” as the sanctuary. If was you that brought up separate, discrete chapels.

 

[ChurchTorch]

Redemptionis Sacramentum #72. And GIRM #154… Case Closed.

You are mistaken.

Neither GIRM 154 nor RS 72 apply to the question I asked. Neither precludes a priest, deacon or acolyte from entering the nave (and thus leaving the sanctuary) to distribute Holy Communion. It would be absurd to suggest otherwise based on the actual text:

GIRM 154. *"…The priest may give the sign of peace to the ministers but always remains within the sanctuary, so as not to disturb the celebration. In the dioceses of the United States of America, for a good reason, on special occasions (for example, in the case of a funeral, a wedding, or when civic leaders are present) the priest may offer the sign of peace to a few of the faithful near the sanctuary…" *

**RS 72: **It is appropriate “that each one give the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner”. “The Priest may give the sign of peace to the ministers but always remains within the sanctuary, so as not to disturb the celebration. He does likewise if for a just reason he wishes to extend the sign of peace to some few of the faithful”. “As regards the sign to be exchanged, the manner is to be established by the Conference of Bishops in accordance with the dispositions and customs of the people”, and their acts are subject to the recognitio of the Apostolic See.

It’s absurd that anyone would even cite GIRM 154 or RS 72 in this discussion.

 

[ChurchTorch]

But this being the case, how is the case where the tabernacle is outside of the sanctuary to be handled?

Edit: I realize that ideally the Tabernacle should be on the Altar, but it should be acknowledged that this is neither absolutely required, or the case in many churches. I do not want a rant about how the Tabernacle SHOULD be on the Altar, I agree, but that isn’t the point here. The question is in reality, how should it be handled.

In some cases the Church even suggest the sanctuary is NOT the ideal place to repose the Blessed Sacrament. Saint Peter’s comes to mind with all its visitors.

I don’t know why some try to add red herrings to threads…

 

[ChurchTorch]

I’ve figured out how we are going to handle this.

Once communion begins, two servers (both commissioned EMsHC) are going to walk from the sanctuary to the tabernacle. Once there one of the servers will discreetly light a candle in a bugia holder (which will be kept out of sight) and lead the server with the Blessed Sacrament back to the sanctuary after he assists with the tabernacle door and gate.

After communion ends and the server is presented with the ciborium at the altar, he will be led by the other server, again with the candle in the bugia candlestick. This lead server can also open the gate and the tabernacle door.

Done. No abuses. Very reverent.

 

[momor]

At my church the sacristan attends all the Masses and is the one who brings the Eucharist to and from the tabernacle which is on the side of the nave. No candles or procession involved.

 

[John_Lilburne]

From the Roman Missal, for Holy Thursday:

“Prayer After Communion
Let us pray. …
The Mass concludes with this prayer.
Transfer of the Holy Eucharist
After the prayer the priest stands before the altar and puts incense in the thurible. Kneeling, he incenses the Blessed Sacament three times. Then he receives the humeral veil, takes the ciborium, and covers it with the ends of the veil.
The Blessed Sacrament is carried through the church in procession, led by a cross-bearer and accompanied by candles and incense, to the place of reposition prepared in a chapel suitably decorated for the occasion. During the procession the hymn Pange, lingua (exclusive of the last two stanzas) or some other eucharistic song is sung.”

For Good Friday, the Roman Missal has:
“Part Three: Holy Communion
21. The altar is covered with a cloth and the corporal and book are placed on it. Then the deacon or, if there is no deacon, the priest brings the ciborium with the Blessed Sacrament from the place of reposition to the altar without any procession, while all stand in silence. Two ministers with lighted candles accompany him and they place their candles near the altar or on it.”

Reference: Roman Missal, Catholic Book Publishing Co., New York, 1985, pages 139 and 165.