Zechariah 14...

[mikekle]

I was reading thru this last night and am a bit confused on this, according to its description of the second coming, Jesus will ‘fight’ with other nations and defend Israel, and it goes on to imply people will still go on living on earth, even outside of Israel, and they are required to come and celebrate the feast of Tabernacles each year, or their rainfall will be withheld?

According to other second coming descriptions, everything is going to change when Jesus comes, this sounds like Jesus is just going to come down and take over control from the nations, but life on earth will still go on for many years.

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+14

 

[thephilosopher6]

I was reading thru this last night and am a bit confused on this, according to its description of the second coming, Jesus will ‘fight’ with other nations and defend Israel, and it goes on to imply people will still go on living on earth, even outside of Israel, and they are required to come and celebrate the feast of Tabernacles each year, or their rainfall will be withheld?

According to other second coming descriptions, everything is going to change when Jesus comes, this sounds like Jesus is just going to come down and take over control from the nations, but life on earth will still go on for many years.

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+14

Zechariah 14 is an early example of Jewish apocalyptic literature. It does seem to contradict the earlier passages of Zechariah leading scholars to propose that Zechariah might be talking about two Messiahs or that it was added to the original text of Zechariah at a later date. It is inspired scripture, so it has truth. But it’s not to be taken literally and is akin to other works such as the Book of Revelation, which is an example of Jewish apocalyptic literature and is not to be taken literally.

 

[jcrichton]

I was reading thru this last night and am a bit confused on this, according to its description of the second coming, Jesus will ‘fight’ with other nations and defend Israel, and it goes on to imply people will still go on living on earth, even outside of Israel, and they are required to come and celebrate the feast of Tabernacles each year, or their rainfall will be withheld?

According to other second coming descriptions, everything is going to change when Jesus comes, this sounds like Jesus is just going to come down and take over control from the nations, but life on earth will still go on for many years.

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+14

Hi, Mike!
I am not versed on these issues… but understand that the book of Zachariah was Written about 587 BC… a point to keep in mind is the final sentence (Zechariah 14:21c):

And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite[c] in the house of the Lord Almighty. (Zechariah 14:21c)

The Canaanites are not a threat to Israel:

The question assumes that the Canaanites kept their lineage pure, but there is no indication of that being the case. The Canaanites, which were actually a number of tribal nations, were conquered by the Israelites, about a thousand years later, the region was conquered by the Assyrians and then the Babylonians, each who exported people and imported people from other lands into the conquered region. The area was then destroyed by Roman and the Ottoman Empire moved in to possess it. Recent reports of DNA analysis of the Palestinians indicate they are a mixture of many nationalities, much as you would expect in a region that has seen so much upheaval.

In truth, the claims of who was there first doesn’t matter. That has never been the basis for determining who currently occupies a territory. (lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVanswers/2011/05-19c.html)

…as a force/empire they’ve ceased to exist.

Consequently, this Revelation must deal with Israel’s past, not the Parousia!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Autumn_Smoke]

I’m not sure I can help with your question, but I do know that Messianic Judaism believes these verses to prefigure Christ’s 2nd coming, and believe he will come back during the Feast of Sukkot in fulfillment of Sukkot being the “Feast of the Ingathering” --prefiguring the final gathering of God’s people and God dwelling permanently with his people---- and Sukkot is the 7th and final feast of the Levital year–thus prefiguring the final Sabbath rest.

If this is the case, it would make sense that the whole world would have to celebrate Sukkot --because it would then be the date that Christ would have come back, and it would be remembered and rejoiced over each year. (if not, they would be in trouble)

 

[melekali]

Something to consider. The Fathers of the Church often refer to the Church as the new Israel. This is consistent with all Scripture. It doesn’t have anything to do with the secular nation called Israel.

Blessings.

 

[mikekle]

Something to consider. The Fathers of the Church often refer to the Church as the new Israel. This is consistent with all Scripture. It doesn’t have anything to do with the secular nation called Israel.

Blessings.

But the bible describes the ‘new Israel’ with detailed and specific physical dimensions and measurements, (1400 mile X 1400 mile), its also said there will be no more oceans or seas and that people will not ‘reminisce’ or think about the old city when the new one comes.

 

[mortimer15]

In Matthew 24:3, His disciples ask Him: “What will be the sign of Your coming, and the end of the age?”

It appears that in the time of Jesus’ 2nd coming, it will only be the end of the age, not the end of the world.

In Isaiah 65:17-25, it talks about the “New Heavens and a New Earth” where people will live well past 100 years of age and continue to live life. According to an article I read (link below), Isaiah 65:17-25 is talking about a time after Jesus’ 2nd coming, but before the creation of the New Heavens and a New Earth.

In Revelation 20:4-6, after Jesus comes and destroys the evil nations, it talks about those who believed in Christ being resurrected and reigning with Christ for 1000 years.

knowbibletruth.com/understandingthenewheavensandnewearth.html

 

[jcrichton]

But the bible describes the ‘new Israel’ with detailed and specific physical dimensions and measurements, (1400 mile X 1400 mile), its also said there will be no more oceans or seas and that people will not ‘reminisce’ or think about the old city when the new one comes.

Hi, Mike!
…it is difficult to understand it… specially when Scriptures make notice of the New Jerusalem being the Bride of Christ–we know, from St. Paul’s description, that there is a great Mystery about Christ and the Church, His Bride; then there’s the dimensions… 1400 x 1400 x 1400–that’s a cube which would extend well over the earth’s atmosphere; this would suggest a city with multiple levels, possibly in the likes of M C Escher’s “Relativity.” Yet, even in such surreal imagery there would not be enough space to hold the billions upon billions (lest only a few actually get Saved) of Believers; hence, we must consider that the description of the City must include a hidden dimension: the Spiritual.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

In Matthew 24:3, His disciples ask Him: “What will be the sign of Your coming, and the end of the age?”

It appears that in the time of Jesus’ 2nd coming, it will only be the end of the age, not the end of the world.

In Isaiah 65:17-25, it talks about the “New Heavens and a New Earth” where people will live well past 100 years of age and continue to live life. According to an article I read (link below), Isaiah 65:17-25 is talking about a time after Jesus’ 2nd coming, but before the creation of the New Heavens and a New Earth.

In Revelation 20:4-6, after Jesus comes and destroys the evil nations, it talks about those who believed in Christ being resurrected and reigning with Christ for 1000 years.

knowbibletruth.com/understandingthenewheavensandnewearth.html

Hi!
…there are several things that we must take into account when attempting to understand prophecies… the most important one is that there is usually a duality involved; that is to say, some parts of the prophecies are related to the very near future (as in the prophet’s own lifetime) while some part/s are exclusively dealing with a very far future (full Revelation, usually not within the prophet’s own lifetime).

The key to understanding that there is a duality that deals both with Israel of the prophet’s own lifetime and with a greater Revelation, beyond the prophet’s lifetime, is this:

11 “But as for you who forsake the Lord
and forget my holy mountain, (Isaiah 65:11a)

…while it would seem that it is a single prophecy dealing with the world after Jesus’ Parousia, we know that Jesus has pronounced that there is a change in God’s economy which would make that impossible:

20 Our fathers adored on this mountain, and you say, that at Jerusalem is the place where men must adore. 21 Jesus saith to her: Woman, believe me, that the hour cometh, when you shall neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, adore the Father. 22 You adore that which you know not: we adore that which we know; for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true adorers shall adore the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeketh such to adore him. 24 God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth. (St. John 4:20-24)

Jesus’ Parousia (Second Coming) will not be limited to Israel; nor will it be limited to the temporal plane:

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth, who hath loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us a kingdom, and priests to God and his Father, to him be glory and empire for ever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he cometh with the clouds, and** every eye shall see him, and they also that pierced him**. And all the tribes of the earth shall bewail themselves because of him. Even so. Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. (Apocalypse 1:5-8)

…so, when we view all of these passages together, the exegesis cannot lead us to believe that the prophecy in Isaiah 65 deals only with Israel (the physical nation); thusly, it deals in a planetary scale.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Mintaka]

1400 x 1400 x 1400 is a symbolic number.

7 = number of Creation and of the Covenant. (There’s a Hebrew pun between “seven” and “oath.”)

2 = God and Man.

10 = perfection.

10 x 10 = perfection of perfection.

3 = the Trinity.

So 1400 cubed is the number of the new cosmos, where God and humanity are together in perfect love and joy.

Sometimes a number is just a number; but in the Bible, numbers are usually used as a sort of poetic description, in order to tell you what’s going on.

 

[jcrichton]

1400 x 1400 x 1400 is a symbolic number.

7 = number of Creation and of the Covenant. (There’s a Hebrew pun between “seven” and “oath.”)

2 = God and Man.

10 = perfection.

10 x 10 = perfection of perfection.

3 = the Trinity.

So 1400 cubed is the number of the new cosmos, where God and humanity are together in perfect love and joy.

Sometimes a number is just a number; but in the Bible, numbers are usually used as a sort of poetic description, in order to tell you what’s going on.

Hi!
…I though the number 7 stood for completion/fullness?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Autumn_Smoke]

I’ve come to the conclusion that it depends on whom you read as to what the numbers stand for. I’ve read that the number 12 stands for completeness. e.g.: 12 apostles, 12 tribes of Israel, etc.

I’ve read Christian interpretations to numerology, and I’ve read Jewish interpretations

It’s all man’s interpretation. God hasn’t given us the legend to the map.

IMHO