Zeitgeist

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Furthermore, here’s a link to an old version of that site (the same domain that “sublime” provided above):

POCM on Mithras without propeller beanie symbols

POCM on Mithras WITH propeller beanie symbols

The beanie symbol means according to POCM.info : "In the meantime, these howlers in particular are not found in the ancient record."

Pro-Zeitgeist poster “sublime” apparently doesn’t notice things like this, but I do. 👍

Phil P
 
Let’s try again, posts were deleted. The purpose here is to demonstrate just how unreliable this site is:

OLD version of POCM site on Mithras linked by “sublime” above:

entheology.org/pocm/pagan_christs_mithras.html

NEW version of POCM site on Mithras:

pocm.info/pagan_christs_mithras.html

Notice the kid “propeller beanie” symbol which means: "In the meantime, these howlers in particular are not found in the ancient record."

Which is why I called the site a joke above. At least he realizes this and is trying to improve his scholarship:

“I first wrote this page back the late 1990s. New to the subject, I was naive about Christian origins scholarship. I figured anybody who took the time to fill a book with hundreds of pages about Jesus would take the time to check the facts. My bad. Turns out Christian origins scholarship, amateur or academic, isn’t given much to rigor. When I tried to do what I though everyone did – check the facts – I discovered the ‘facts’ here are not actually facts. They are earnest amateur legend, some of it repeated generation to generation back into the 1800s. I’ll clean this up at the end of the ongoing POCM rewrite. Rather than just take it down I’ve decided to leave it up for now, as an example of how well meaning amateurs can get tricked. Watch out. You could get tricked too, unless you remember.” (from POCM.info site in Mithras page)

Will this post be deleted? Why?

Phil P
 
Hello all:

Does anyone know the “dirt” on this Zeitgeist thing?

Frankly, I’m shocked at what a good job he does “destroying” Christianity. When one does a bit of research, one finds that he’s done a “DaVinci Code” - made up a bunch of lies, and salted some truth in to make it palatable.

Currently, I’ve posted some debunking responses. But does anyone know who this guy/gal is? What is this “Zeitgeist” thing?

If anyone has a smoking gun on this thing, I certainly would appreciate it. Thanks & God Bless,

Birdstrike
 
I’m sorry - you can check it out by going to “www.youtube.com”, and putting “zeitgeist religion” in the search box. Then, look at Part 1.

Keep in mind, millions of people are watching this thing - and as one can see from the posts, they’re buying it.

Birdstrike
 
I saw this movie a few weeks ago. Many people in my pagan community are discussing it. Well, there is grains of truth in the religion part, but it is disorted and mixed with innaccuricies. I was shocked at first how convincing it was! But I went to many referance sources and found that much of it were lies. Although Christianity does have ties with paganism (most religions do, as ancient paganism was the first religion), the movie went way over the top. It has too much propaganda already for it to have any real truth.

Btw, this is an excellant article debunking some of the religion myths in the movie: bringyou.to/apologetics/HORUS.htm#BOGUS. It was written by a poster here, I’m just posting the link again as that will give more people a chance to see the link.
 
Thank you for the link!

I’m old enough to be a skeptical sort by now - but I was amazed at how it is “selling” to younger people. They simply accept it as fact.

It’s a truth/lie mix most of the way through, but when one gets to the supposed similarities part, it’s almost all fiction! Out of thin air.

Thank you for the link - I’ll check it out!

God Bless you,

Birdstrike
 
Bird << Does anyone know the “dirt” on this Zeitgeist thing? Frankly, I’m shocked at what a good job he does “destroying” Christianity. When one does a bit of research, one finds that he’s done a “DaVinci Code” - made up a bunch of lies, and salted some truth in to make it palatable. >>

You are correct. Basically, it is another Da Vinci Code type thing (I did a number on that one too). :eek:

Virtually everything “Zeitgeist” says on Horus (Part I) is incorrect. The only thing he gets right is that Horus is some god from Egypt. Just as the only thing Dan Brown gets right is that Paris is in France and London is in England. (Sorry, got that line from Sandra Miesel).

“Zeitgeist” problem is that virtually everything his “sources” say are also incorrect. And he doesn’t know that since he didn’t bother to check out anything in scholarly, modern, up-to-date sources on Egyptology. That would take at least one trip to the library to verify things in such sources as The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt (2001). The Internet will also work if you are discerning enough.

Bird << Currently, I’ve posted some debunking responses. But does anyone know who this guy/gal is? What is this “Zeitgeist” thing? >>

Yeah, his name is Peter Joseph, but that is a pseudo-nym I believe. He did an interview with the 9/11 “Loose Change” kids. I believe that is also posted on YouTube but I converted that to MP3 here if you want to listen. The “Loose Change” kids 😛 are sympathetic with the Horus/Jesus thing, but of course they are more interested in him promoting the 9/11 conspiracy idea.

Basically, the “Zeitgeist” guy is a 20s something Brian Flemming copycat. Brian Flemming made the 2005 "The God Who Wasn’t There" DVD which promotes Jesus as “myth.” Same idea, except “Zeitgeist” adds material on Horus, astrology, and does additional segments (Part II) on 9/11 conspiracies and (Part III) “New World Order” and “One World Government” ideas. I’ve only watched Part II and III maybe twice so don’t quote me there. I am more interested in Part I.

Virtually all his information comes from the horrendous The Christ Conspiracy by Acharya S (and her other books), along with Gerald Massey’s old books on Egyptology (the Horus/Jesus stuff), with some “astro-theology” ideas of Jordan Maxwell. At least one video that repeats the same Horus/Jesus “parallel pagan gods” thing and the “astro-theology” anti-Christian stuff is "The Naked Truth" (available from Google video or YouTube, but I also have this terrible DVD).

You will also find this same stuff in "The Book Your Church Doesn’t Want You To Read" (1992). Same Horus/Jesus nonsense and same “astro-theology” nonsense in this book. Exact same material is found in “Zeitgeist.” Nothing is original in “Zeitgeist” except perhaps the packaging together of the “Jesus myth” / Horus / sun-god thing with the 9/11 and other conspiracies in one “movie.”

Bird << If anyone has a smoking gun on this thing, I certainly would appreciate it. >>

Yeah, I smoke Part I in my two articles: 👍

All About Horus: An Egyptian Copy of Christ?

Parallel Pagan “Saviors” Examined

I am totally not interested in trying to smoke Part II or III but Popular Mechanics did the demolition job (no pun intended) on all 9/11 conspiracy theories in their book Debunking 9/11 Myths. For those crazy “Loose Change” kids 😛 see www.LooseChangeGuide.com

Phil P
 
Wow, excellent. Thank you!

Yes, I just found “All About Horus . . .” and read it; you did an excellent job!

I will continue to spread the word in my internet outreach. Thanks a zillion for doing all of this work.

Birdstrike
 
Rent the Zeitgeist thing? It’s on the internet!

Google “Zeitgeist - The Movie” and I’m sure you’ll find it.

You can see the part on religion by searching “zeitgeist religion” in the YouTube search function.

Birdstrike
 
pub << This movie sounds facinating…I’m going to have to rent it. >>

Sure, it is “fascinating” if you like a good conspiracy. Zeitgeist combines at least three conspiracies: Jesus/sun-god myth, 9/11 conspiracy, and International Bankers / Global Government / New World Order ideas. I find it “fascinating” myself (at least Part I) just like I find movies by and about Scientology fascinating. Totally wrong but fascinating. :eek:

Hint: to get the full movie as a high-quality AVI, use “Bittorrent” www.UTorrent.com

Phil P
 
As a catechist I’ve thought quite a bit about it - even to the point of going 'round and 'round with people on the “comments” section of YouTube where it lives in pieces. Is it a bad documentary? Is it a work of reality-based fiction?

No. It’s a HIT job. Anyone that has worked in politics or law knows what I’m talking about:

First, one does “research” - but one-sided research. Dirt-digging, if you will.

Then, with these facts, you determine how much lying you can get away with. Then you add that in, toward the worst possible outcome. It’s done all the time.

Experienced hit-men know that even it they get caught lying, it doesn’t matter; the best strategy is to lie big, over and over, hoping that one of the lies “sticks”. Even if 9 out of 10 are proven wrong, someone can still say: “. . . But what about #10???”

Birdstrike
 
pretey much all the paralells of the antient “gods” have been completely defuted.
But what ive looked into is the astology end of thngs and ive found some interesting info.
  1. The southern cross in the movie is supposed 2 be where we get the idea of Jesus deing on the cross…ect. But all the astrologers i looked into said that not only can u not see the southern cross properly from the mediteranian (hence why its called the “southern” cross) but also it wasn’t named until the southern voyages in the 16th century.
  2. The earliest record i could find of orions belt being called “three kings” was in south africa in 18th century. If the story of the magi following the star to bethlehem comes from the minds of astrologers 2000 yrs ago, then its weird that theres no evidence of those stars having the name “three kings”.
  3. The whole concept of the ages having prophetic meaning is very much a modern thing. Eg. age of aqarius (being a time of enlightment ect). The constalatons were maped out in sections of 30 degrees each (thats all) so they are obviously man made its only in around the 20th century that our God starved generation made them out to be mystical and revealing.
So what i think these people have done is look at astrology 2day and make parallels between it and christianity (not a hard thing to do seen as they both have so many variables to play around with) but the fact is astrology is NOT the same 2day as it was 2000 yrs ago when christianity was supposedly “made up”.

But i think we should all pray 4 the makers of this film because as St Paul says “DO NOT BE OVERCOME BY EVIL RATHER OVERCOME EVIL WITH GOOD”. rom12;21
I love you all, God bless!!
 
Thank you, Train! That helps.

I’ve been trying to get the word out by “hanging” on the comment section of YouTube, but unfortunately, most people who see this film will believe it. It’s a vicious assault.

Anything I can learn about the film is helpful; thank you for that information! God Bless you,

Birdstrike
 
Hello,

I have recently saw the movie zeitgeist and was very surprise with the similarites of Christianity and other religion, for example the god of horus dies and rose from the dead. I was also surprise to hear that Justin Martyr to state that Christianity does have many similarites with other religions and this is because the devil made these similarties to fool people away from Christianity.

Also, the notion that Christianity is a form of sun worship.
I would like to know what you think about this.

Thanks,
John
 
Greg,

That is what I was looking for. I never heard about he comparision to pagan religions, I found it very interesting. Thanks you

John
 
Best documentary ever. I think it even topped “Religulous”.

sigh I love religion so much. ❤️

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
 
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