Zen, Yoga, Science, and Catholic Faith?

[Super_Grover]

We have to be careful - to just kinda give a blanket statement and I dunno, quash any sense of mysticism - we’ll lose.

We’ll lose big - because we wouldn’t be addressing the problem at all.

We shouldn’t be alarmed by people wanting to do this type of thing, it only shows that they are seeking a closer relationship with our Heavenly Father.

And as a Church, i feel we should really be educating and providing for these peoples needs. Otherwise, we are breaking our bonds with them.

We’re at fault, not them.

No, we don’t quash mysticism. But is the interest in these other things because of a lack of Catholic mysticism in particular, or a lack of good spiritual instruction in general. I mean, in all honesty, how many of us are called to mysticism? I’ve read Theresa of Avila, and most of “The Fire Within” by Father Dubay, same with John of the Cross, Thomas Merton (pre-deep end) and read up on other mystics. I don’t know if a “normal” person of this world can achieve what they achieve. I’m fairly typical in that I have a fairly consuming job, kids, a wife. I will be honest, I have come away with the conclusion that “mystical” experiences such as those described by some saints and achieved through rigorous discipline are not likely in the cards for me. I am able to do the rosary a few times a week, with a goal of doing it once a day. Not mystical for me, but very fortifying. And if people better understood the Liturgy (not that I’m an expert), they would be much more moved by Mass, particularly the consecration.

I think there is enough there for us to not require these false substitutes. But, if my parish were to put on classes, say, on the The Interior Castle, I’d go. People would get more out of that then anything they get on their Yoga mats. But, I’d settle for classes that help us better understand Mass, and that would be wonderful for acquiring a deeper relationship with Jesus. And there is much to be gained from fasting (very underrated these days, imo) and simply finding quiet time to pray. That needs to be pushed. It’s not as chic as saying that you are incorporating Buddhism into your prayer, but fasting, self denial, control of urges, and prayer is very powerful.

I mean - St. Ignatius’s folk didn’t go to Japan to learn Buddhism, they went their to convert people.

But as we both know, Ignatian spirituality is pretty deep and rather intensive. I mean, have you read the Spiritual Exercises? The Chanting Mumbo Jumbo is a SO Much easier.

But who has heard of them? Or the Desert Fathers like John Cassian? Or the meditations of St. Francis? I mean, the list goes on and on and on.

Yes, we have much in the Catholic faith. But as noted above, typically very rigorous, like the Ignatian exercises. I only recently learned of John Cassian – look at what his spirituality requires. I don’t have the years (or an accessible desert for that matter) to achieve these stages and still fulfill my other obligations. I would love a less ambitious synthesis of our mystics that is true to the faith and is beneficial to more of the average joe. Any recommendations?

Some “success” can be found with TM, astral projection exercises, and that stuff fairly quickly, for whatever it’s worth. But you can’t dabble and expect to have one of Theresa’s ecstasies. One thing about someone who is exerting their efforts on TM, they are NOT expending their efforts on prayer.

Spirituality has always been with the Church, but is a neglected tradition.

In truth, had we been more conscientious about all this, we WOULDN’T have this problem at all.

Yes, fair enough. But the Church has spoken on these issues. Maybe not forcefully in the '89 letter, but I gather from your posts that you don’t really read Cardinal Ratzinger’s letter, or the joint Pontifical Councils treatment of the New Age as license for this kind of stuff? I don’t see insufficient nourishment as a good reason for letting them eat poison. Poison sounds strong, but even if it “only” leads them to false beliefs, and leads them away from Christ, it is poison.

 

[rossum]

I am Buddhist, so I thought I would give my perspective.

That’s part 1.

The closest I have seen in Christianity to Buddhist meditation is Saying the Jesus Prayer:

Bishop Kallistos Ware says that if we pray the Jesus Prayer for short periods, ten or fifteen minutes at the beginning, then there is no problem matching the words of the prayer to our breath. We are to breathe naturally, without playing with the rhythm of the breath. On the inhale, we can say, “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God.” On the exhale, we can say, “have mercy on me, a sinner.” We are to breathe and pray slowly and reverently and attentively.

If you do decide to try this for yourself then please be aware of Bishop Ware’s warning: “But those who have no personal contact with starets [teacher] may still practice the Prayer without any fear, so long as they do so only for limited periods - initially, for no more than ten or fifteen minutes at a time - and so long as they make no attempt to interfere with the body’s natural rhythms.” You need to let the prayer follow your breathing, do not make your breathing follow the prayer.

Part 2 - To throw an interesting twist into all this - I have a friend who is a devout Catholic but has taken up the field of neuroscience and neurology as his career.

Part of his research is into the psychological and physical benefits of meditation - of which he studies Buddhism.

Referring back to part 1 of this question - is he in violation of something? I mean, the guy told me straight he could care less about those who are meditating to “join with the Divine” or whatever - he just wants to create some Alpha waves and see what their effects are.

Your friend is in an interesting field. There are already a number of studies of meditation, such as Buddhists ‘really are happier’ and Neuroscience may explain the Dalai Lama. It is perfectly possible to do such studies without actually being Buddhist.

2.) Buddhists have been at this meditation thing a lot longer. They’ve also studied the workings of the mind and framed it in such a manner that gives a whole technical discipline to the modification of the mind.

Agreed. Buddhism is a very practical religion - it focuses very strongly on what works; over the years it has developed a number of very effective techniques. Just as drug companies use traditional folk medicine to help in their search for new drugs, it makes sense for neuroscientists to make use of what Buddhism has already done in this area.

rossum

 

[Cathdefender]

For you maybe, but not for the other 5.5 billion non-Catholics on the planet…remember that.

Only if YOU remember there are 1.12 BILLION Catholics and more converts each day.