Zygotes and heaven?

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vz71 said:
you are making assumptions that are not true.

pascal’s wager is not an argument for anything other then the existence of God.

And it applies perfectly to the argument/question posed.
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Which God?

Vishnu, Bal, Osiris, Zeus, a nature God or Allah?
 
Abbadon said:
but there is sanity in numbers.
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The Rwandan genocide, perpetrated by hundreds of thousands, was sanity?

Nazi Germany was sanity?

Scientology is sanity?

No, large numbers of people does not mean that something is sane. :rolleyes:
 
phantasm said:
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Abbadon:
but there is sanity in numbers.
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The Rwandan genocide, perpetrated by hundreds of thousands, was sanity?

Nazi Germany was sanity?

Scientology is sanity?

No, large numbers of people does not mean that something is sane. :rolleyes:
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(Okay everyone else, the atheists are arguing with each other now. Lets go away quietly. Maybe they won’t notice.)
 
vz71 said:
you are making assumptions that are not true.

pascal’s wager is not an argument for anything other then the existence of God.

And it applies perfectly to the argument/question posed.
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It makes the assumption of the consequences of believing in god and not believing in god without actually knowing. If for example the Norse gods are real that would change the consequences because if you live a life and die in battle you will go to Valhalla and belief has nothing really to do with it. If the Egyptian gods are real your life will be wieghed with the feather of truth again belief in a god is irrelevant here.

It does not answer the question because the concept of every single god/godess is equally valid as you cannot prove/disprove any of them.
 
phantasm said:
The Rwandan genocide, perpetrated by hundreds of thousands, was sanity?

Nazi Germany was sanity?

Scientology is sanity?

No, large numbers of people does not mean that something is sane. :rolleyes:
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Sanity is subjective.

I should be more specific. I was funnily enough quoting Dawkins in his documentary The Root of all Evil. Also another bbc documentry by a psychologist that looked at releigousity and mental illness i think it was called Am I Sane?

Of course there is sanity in numbers… What you believe may not be real but if thousands of people believe the same thing it gives you credibility and can strengthen your belief. If I believe I am Napolean people will call me crazy, but if 1.5 billion people believe I am Napolean…
 
Leopard said:
(Okay everyone else, the atheists are arguing with each other now. Lets go away quietly. Maybe they won’t notice.)
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Of course. I’m sure our philosophical stances on several issues would vary. We’re not sheep we’re goats… Plus it’s the best kind of debate…
 
Leopard said:
No, through the teaching authority of the Church. Magic refers to attempts to manipulate God.
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Ahhh of course when the church make things up it naturally instantly becomes fact. Because they are infallible…
 
Abbadon said:
Ahhh of course when the church make things up it naturally instantly becomes fact. Because they are infallible…
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No, on several different levels.
  1. The Church is not making anything up.
  2. It is not a natural process, it is a supernatural process under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
  3. It is not an instant process. Theological thought may develop slowly over centuries.
  4. Not all theological thought is “fact” in the sense of being official doctrine binding on all the Faithful. Some theological speculation is permissible for the Faithful to believe or not, based on their own judgments as to whether such teaching is true.
In some cases where no official teaching exists concerning a certain subject, Catholics may choose to believe one of two or more possibly mutually exclusive speculations. Such as whether St. Joseph was an elderly widow when he married Mary, or whether he, like Mary, was a lifelong virgin.
  1. Not all theological opinions proposed by the Church have been defined infallibly.
 
Leopard said:
No, on several different levels.
  1. The Church is not making anything up.
  2. It is not a natural process, it is a supernatural process under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
  3. It is not an instant process. Theological thought may develop slowly over centuries.
  4. Not all theological thought is “fact” in the sense of being official doctrine binding on all the Faithful. Some theological speculation is permissible for the Faithful to believe or not, based on their own judgments as to whether such teaching is true.
In some cases where no official teaching exists concerning a certain subject, Catholics may choose to believe one of two or more possibly mutually exclusive speculations. Such as whether St. Joseph was an elderly widow when he married Mary, or whether he, like Mary, was a lifelong virgin.
  1. Not all theological opinions proposed by the Church have been defined infallibly.
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If not simply making up an answer where do they draw their conclusions from? The assumption of Mary?
It is not a natural process, it is a supernatural process under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
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Ahhhh of course… Because when someone says they have been guided by the holy spirit it must be true…
 
Abbadon said:
…Ahhhh of course… Because when someone says they have been guided by the holy spirit it must be true…
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Not necessarily. If someone made such a claim who otherwise presented no reason for others to believe the claim to be true, a prudential skepticism would not be out of order.
 
Abbadon said:
Sanity is subjective.

I should be more specific. I was funnily enough quoting Dawkins in his documentary The Root of all Evil. Also another bbc documentry by a psychologist that looked at releigousity and mental illness i think it was called Am I Sane?

Of course there is sanity in numbers… What you believe may not be real but if thousands of people believe the same thing it gives you credibility and can strengthen your belief. If I believe I am Napolean people will call me crazy, but if 1.5 billion people believe I am Napolean…
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As was also discussed, you may recall, just because 1.1 billion people believe something, does not make that something correct. 👍 ( Of course we know that, now don’t we)
 
Leopard said:
Not necessarily. If someone made such a claim who otherwise presented no reason for others to believe the claim to be true, a prudential skepticism would not be out of order.
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So what is the special exemption you give the church and the leaders of it?
 
phantasm said:
As was also discussed, you may recall, just because 1.1 billion people believe something, does not make that something correct. 👍 ( Of course we know that, now don’t we)
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yes but what does it mean to be sane? I don’t really understand sanity, for me I just see it as greater than 2 std. dev. from the median…
 
Abbadon said:
So what is the special exemption you give the church and the leaders of it?
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In any matter that the Church has definitively taught, where it has been possible for me to independently verify her claims regarding that matter, I have never found the Church to be wrong. This gives me good reason to trust her in matters that I can not independently verify, such as the nature of souls in Heaven.
 
Guys, I’ve enjoyed this, but it’s getting late. Maybe we’ll pick this up tomorrow. Good night.
 
Abbadon said:
yes but what does it mean to be sane? I don’t really understand sanity, for me I just see it as greater than 2 std. dev. from the median…
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Now you are playing with words. Insanity is indeed based on a judgement, but judgments don’t vary that much.
 
RobbyS said:
If those you name, Allah. None of the others are like Allah, or the God of the Bible, because only he is a Creator.
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I’m pretty sure Odin created worlds to. And also the Titans and there is that father sky and mother earth in Egyptian mythology… And the rainbow serpent in aboriginal lore…
 
Abbadon said:
If not simply making up an answer where do they draw their conclusions from? The assumption of Mary?

Ahhhh of course… Because when someone says they have been guided by the holy spirit it must be true…
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Supernatural doesn’t necessary mean incorporal. The doctrine of the Resurrection of the dead is fundamental to Christianity and it implies a “natural” unity of body and soul. Itis the “man” not just the soul that is immortal. Thus death is “unnatural.”
 
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